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Strategies for car gas at the airport

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craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:52 am Post subject: Strategies for car gas at the airport

The Rotax 912 prefers unleaded fuel. But there is none available at my

airport. I can burn 100LL if I add Decalin although there will be more

deposit build-up and I'll have to change oil more often. So I'm looking at

ways to haul car gas to the hanger. Since my 701 holds 20 gallons a couple

of 5 gal jerry cans isn't going to do it. And fueling a high-wing by hand

will be a challenge. I drive an SUV and not a pickup and I'm not wild about

hauling gas inside the car. But I will if I have to. And then there is the

whole issue of the shelf life of car gas.



How do others do this? One idea is to just fill the car and pump gas from

the car's tank. But I think there is an anti-siphon/theft device on most car

tank filler necks.



-- Craig

Rickey B.

Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Posts: 70

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:19 am Post subject: Strategies for car gas at the airport

Craig, fill the tank on your car with the desired fuel. Stick a

siphon hose in the car tank at the plane. Connect the siphon hose to an

electric Facet pump with the hose on the other end in the wing tank.

Wire the pump with an end that plugs into the "cigar lighter" receptacle

in the car and keep an eye on the fuel level in the tanks. Very little

work on your part and rather safe, too. Just be careful not to drain the

car tank too low! You could, also, use the Gerry cans to supplement the

car tank if it is too small. You don't want to have to walk home!!



			Rick

	Do NOT archive.



The Rotax 912 prefers unleaded fuel. But there is none available at my

airport. I can burn 100LL if I add Decalin although there will be more

deposit build-up and I'll have to change oil more often. So I'm looking

at

ways to haul car gas to the hanger. Since my 701 holds 20 gallons a

couple

of 5 gal jerry cans isn't going to do it. And fueling a high-wing by

hand

will be a challenge. I drive an SUV and not a pickup and I'm not wild

about

hauling gas inside the car. But I will if I have to. And then there is

the

whole issue of the shelf life of car gas.



How do others do this? One idea is to just fill the car and pump gas

from

the car's tank. But I think there is an anti-siphon/theft device on most

car

tank filler necks.



-- Craig

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:18 pm Post subject: Strategies for car gas at the airport

Hi Craig,



One issue you might like to figure out.  If you purchase gas at a gas 

station and put it in your plane then you have paid a tax for road 

use that you didn't use.  You should be able to get a refund of this 

tax which can be upwards of $.50 per gallon depending on where you live.



Paul

XL getting close



At 10:49 AM 7/16/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  How do others do this? One idea is to just fill the car and pump gas from

the car's tank. But I think there is an anti-siphon/theft device on most car

tank filler necks.

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:19 pm Post subject: Re: Strategies for car gas at the airport

If you flying a bunch, which I certainly hope to be doing once I get finished, you might consider mounting a 50 or 75 gallon tank on a small trailer. I'm thinking about doing that as well as mounting a hose and electric pump to the trailer. There is a gas station just a few miles from the airport and I have a hanger to keep it in.



Yes it will cost some money but there is a $1.75 spread between the cost of 100LL and 93 mogas around here and at 6 gph it won't take too long to make back the cost.



Or you could do what this guy did.



http://www.alexisparkinn.com/fuel_truck.htm

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

Terry Phillips

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 346
Location: Corvallis, MT

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:23 pm Post subject: Strategies for car gas at the airport

Craig



Donald Hall gave a talk about fuel systems at the Arlington Flyin. He 

said that he has been using mogas for 20 years with the two pump systems 

shown in the attached photos. He said that the large gascolators on the 

pumps was very important to keep crud out of the gas tank. These photos 

are my photos of his prints, so, they are not the best. My impression 

was that he brought gas to the airplane in 5 5-gal containers and pumped 

from there.



Pump_2 is an adaption of a commercial unit with an electrically driven 

pump. If you Google something like "gas caddy" you'll find items that 

look like pump_2 (without the gascolator), but they are not cheap.



Terry

Craig Payne wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 The Rotax 912 prefers unleaded fuel. But there is none available at my

 airport. I can burn 100LL if I add Decalin although there will be more

 deposit build-up and I'll have to change oil more often. So I'm looking at

 ways to haul car gas to the hanger. Since my 701 holds 20 gallons a couple

 of 5 gal jerry cans isn't going to do it. And fueling a high-wing by hand

 will be a challenge. I drive an SUV and not a pickup and I'm not wild about

 hauling gas inside the car. But I will if I have to. And then there is the

 whole issue of the shelf life of car gas.



 How do others do this? One idea is to just fill the car and pump gas from

 the car's tank. But I think there is an anti-siphon/theft device on most car

 tank filler necks.



 -- Craig

   


	


-- 

Terry Phillips

ttp44~at~rkymtn.net

Corvallis MT

601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Rudder done--finally; working on the stab

http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/

Pump_2.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

91.54 KB

Viewed:

456 Time(s)

Pump_1.jpg

Description:

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_________________
Terry Phillips
Corvallis, MT
ttp44<at>rkymtn.net
Zenith 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail feathers done; working on the wings.

amyvega2005(at)earthlink.
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:40 pm Post subject: Strategies for car gas at the airport

Paul,

have you gottena refund from the state for Road tax on the gas?  that is great, i want to see if they really do that.



juan



--

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:58 pm Post subject: Strategies for car gas at the airport

Hi Juan,



No, I haven;t gotten a refund.  Alas, I haven't used mogas in my 

plane.  One reason is my plane isn't finished yet.  Another is I plan 

to use 100LL out of the pump at my local airport.



My tax comment was based on what happens to farmers who use auto fuel 

for agricultural purposes.  It seems the same to me - highway taxes 

paid at the pump wasn't earned by the state.  This often isn't enough 

fuel to make it worth collecting the refund, but airplanes use a lot of fuel.



Paul

XL almost there

do not archive

At 01:35 PM 7/16/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Paul,

have you gottena refund from the state for Road tax on the 

gas?  that is great, i want to see if they really do that.



juan

daveaustin2(at)primus.ca
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:36 pm Post subject: Strategies for car gas at the airport

Up here in the frozen north (Canada) it is possible to get the fuel tax 

rebate.

Dave Austin  601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII

kmccune

Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:38 pm Post subject: Re: Strategies for car gas at the airport

Yup you can get the refund, we use to do it "at home on the farm" There is paperwork and such but if you save up your receipts for once a year you could get a pretty  nice check 4gph X 50hrs =200 gallons x .$50 =$100.00 

I'm sure the paper work has changed, but then Mom did it so I have no idea what it was.



Kevin

_________________
“Always do what you are afraid to do.”
R.W. Emerson (1803-1882)

"Real freedom is the sustained act of being an individual." WW - 2009

"Life is a good deal...it's worth it" Feb 1969
Dorothy McCune

bjohnson(at)satx.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:53 pm Post subject: Strategies for car gas at the airport

For those in Texas, the refund is only 20 cent per gallon..., worth it, 

I guess depending on how much fuel you actually use..

the form is here:  http://www.window.state.tx.us/taxinfo/taxforms/06-106.pdf

The specific page I found that indicates that aircraft and boats 

qualify: 

http://www.window.state.tx.us/taxinfo/audit/motorfue/2_gasoline.htm#exceptions

-Bruce

Paul Mulwitz wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Hi Juan,

 No, I haven;t gotten a refund.  Alas, I haven't used mogas in my plane.  

 One reason is my plane isn't finished yet.  Another is I plan to use 

 100LL out of the pump at my local airport.

 My tax comment was based on what happens to farmers who use auto fuel 

 for agricultural purposes.  It seems the same to me - highway taxes paid 

 at the pump wasn't earned by the state.  This often isn't enough fuel to 

 make it worth collecting the refund, but airplanes use a lot of fuel.

 Paul

 XL almost there

 do not archive

 At 01:35 PM 7/16/2008, you wrote:

> Paul,

> have you gottena refund from the state for Road tax on the gas?  that 

> is great, i want to see if they really do that.

>

> juan

amyvega2005(at)earthlink.
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:18 pm Post subject: Strategies for car gas at the airport

Sweat!  I am going to check it out for FLorida.



JUan



--

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:20 pm Post subject: Strategies for car gas at the airport

Hi Craig,

I purchased four 5-gallon red circular steel cans with a spring lid 

that's handle actuated. The can comes with a yellow spout that's 

perpendicular

with the sides. These are OSHA compliant gasoline cans, unlike some very 

unstable plastic types. The spout doesn't leak and protects

the splatter of a first pour.  Great geometry for a gas can, especially 

for moving within a car.  I need at least two more to equate the volume

of my plane and have a spare in case there's ever a leak found or 

there's a need for fuel transfer, plane to car.  Anything after 3 

months, I begin to

run the stuff through my car and refresh the hangar supply.  Never had 

any trouble with the cans or the 87-octane that's stored in the hangar.



http://www.stacksandstacks.com/track/rd.html?id=176&product_page=108984_5-gallon-gas-can-type-1&sku=108985&utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_source=googlebase



I'd recommend the can shown in the above link,



Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

Craig Payne wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 The Rotax 912 prefers unleaded fuel. But there is none available at my

 airport. I can burn 100LL if I add Decalin although there will be more

 deposit build-up and I'll have to change oil more often. So I'm looking at

 ways to haul car gas to the hanger. Since my 701 holds 20 gallons a couple

 of 5 gal jerry cans isn't going to do it. And fueling a high-wing by hand

 will be a challenge. I drive an SUV and not a pickup and I'm not wild about

 hauling gas inside the car. But I will if I have to. And then there is the

 whole issue of the shelf life of car gas.



 How do others do this? One idea is to just fill the car and pump gas from

 the car's tank. But I think there is an anti-siphon/theft device on most car

 tank filler necks.



 -- Craig

n601xs(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:04 pm Post subject: Strategies for car gas at the airport

I just picked up a 12v Facet transfer pump from ACS, http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/facetFuelit.php, they have a special where they include the battery option for free. I have the opposite problem, I need to break in my engine with 100LL and the field I'm at is mostly ultra-lights and LSA's and they don't carry Avgas. I used 2 5-gal cans with my Cessna and just topped the plane off every time I drove to the airport. 

 

Craig S.

N601XS, 601xl  lyc 0-235



  [quote][b]

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:34 pm Post subject: Strategies for car gas at the airport

Ah! Good idea to track the date of the gas and put the old in the car.



Thanks for the lead on the can.



-- Craig



--

cookwithgas

Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 159

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:24 am Post subject: Re: Strategies for car gas at the airport

Craig:



I was at the gas station a while back and saw a guy with a large, red, flat tank laying in the back of his SUV.  It had wheels and he was using it for his boat.  

http://www.foreandaftmarine.com/MO-06792.htm

I'm sure a clever airplane-builder could figure out a way to rig up a pump to get the fuel up into the wing tank.  



My Corvair loves 100LL so I never did go this route but it was my plan at one time.  



Scott Laughlin

601XL/Corvair, PIC

Omaha, NE

LHusky

Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Posts: 86
Location: Madras, Oregon

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:16 am Post subject: Strategies for car gas at the airport

What I have planned is this.  I bought a rear rack that will go into  the 2" receiver on my SUV. I bought it for $40 bucks at Harbor  Freight.  I then went to a boat salvage yard and bought a 25 gallon fuel  tank.  I will bolt that to the rack and it will have 3 electric fuel  pumps on it.  I have a 12V outlet in the back of my 4Runner and will just  plug it into the 3 to 1 extension outlet.  When the tank is  empty, it will be very easy to take off the truck and store.  When it is  full, it is secure and NOT in my vehicle.  I just hope that I don't  get hit in the rear.  The tank is plastic, so that helps a  little.  The 3 pumps put out a lot of gas, so it won't take all day to  fill her up.  That is my solution.  I used it with my  ultralight for 3 years without a problem.  This is just a bigger  tank!  I have done a test run and it will work great and fill both tanks in  less than 10 minutes.  

  

 Larry Husky 

 Madras, Oregon 

  

  In a message dated 7/17/2008 5:27:49 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  cookwithgas(at)HOTMAIL.COM writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Zenith-List message posted by: "cookwithgas"    <cookwithgas(at)hotmail.com>



Craig:



I was at the gas station    a while back and saw a guy with a large, red, flat tank laying in the back of    his SUV.  It had wheels and he was using it for his boat.     

http://www.foreandaftmarine.com/MO-06792.htm

I'm sure a clever    airplane-builder could figure out a way to rig up a pump to get the fuel up    into the wing tank.  



My Corvair loves 100LL so I never did go    this route but it was my plan at one time.  



Scott    Laughlin

601XL/Corvair, PIC

Omaha, NE





Read this topic    online    here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193324#193324

	




Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com!

  [quote][b]

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:29 am Post subject: Re: Strategies for car gas at the airport

Since we are on the subject of homemade fueling systems keep one thing in mind.



SET UP A GROUNDING SYSTEM.

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

david_a_g_johnson(at)btin
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:22 am Post subject: Strategies for car gas at the airport

I don't know where (or if) this is available in the USA - I would be 

surprised if it isn't, but it sounds as though this is what he was using and 

it has a hand-operated pump.



http://www.transair.co.uk/product4.asp?SID &Product_ID=7818

Dave Johnson



601XL Jab. 3300 - it WILL fly this year!!!



do not archive



---

challgren(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:20 am Post subject: Strategies for car gas at the airport

List:



The product listed below seems to offer a good solution for those flying from their pastures.  I have a similar 5 gallon refueling device with a pump that refuels my tractor.  It does have a pump that takes about 200 strokes to transfer 5 gallons.  However, I am concerned about whether the Flo N Go  will work for a high wing airplane.  My concern is with the last statement quoted:  "Transfers fluids on level surfaces".  Has anyone used it for refueling a 701?

Flo N Go Duramax Pump - Fuel TankThe DuraMAX fluid transfer siphon pump and patented Flo n' Go nand pump provide the only re-filling and fluid transfer system you will ever need.   With environmentally responsible features, accidental spills and overfilling problems are stopped, providing a safer fluid transfer to you and the environment. So whether your fuel needs include water craft, hunting and camping, generator, outdoor power equipment or professional landscaping tool, the DuraMAX and Flo n' GO combination will make refuelling easy.

Made from a durable high density polyethylene coloured vibrant red for use with gasoline, diesel or kerosene fuels
Comes complete with a patented Flo n' Go hand pump & pump holder handle.
14 Gallon (53 Litre) capacity and a 10' (305 cm) long fuel hose.
Includes a bolt on hanger for convenient hose storage.
Quickly refuels, using a UL approved, mechanically vented fill cap.
Transfers fluids on level surfaces with minimal priming.On Jul 17, 2008, at 8:19 , David Johnson wrote:

[quote] [quote][b]

ggower_99(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:18 am Post subject: Strategies for car gas at the airport

After years of experience with the use red plastic containers,  we dont have gasoline at our aerodrome.  and airports here dont handle car gasoline, only 100LL.  I am very happy using several 10 liter (about 3 gal) red containers.    

They are not heavy to fill the 701 wing tanks,  when I carry two at a  time I am perfectly balanced. Instead of  one 20 liter (5 gal)  in one hand.  The bigger  the cntainer, the more dificult to move around. 

  

I have 3 cardboard boxes with 2 containers each that I put as needed in the pick up bed.  This way they dont roll around.   I normally bring from 20 to 40 liters  Is the amount of gasoline we normally use every flying saturday. 

  

Saludos 

Gary Gower 

Flying from Chapala, Mexico 

701 912S  202 hrs this last saturday  



--- On Thu, 7/17/08, cookwithgas <cookwithgas(at)HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:

 [quote]From: cookwithgas <cookwithgas(at)HOTMAIL.COM>

Subject: Re: Strategies for car gas at the airport

To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Thursday, July 17, 2008, 8:24 AM



[quote]--> Zenith-List message posted by: "cookwithgas" <cookwithgas(at)hotmail.com>  Craig:  I was at the gas station a while back and saw a guy with a large, red, flat tank laying in the back of his SUV.  It had wheels and he was using it for his boat.   http://www.foreandaftmarine.com/MO-06792.htm I'm sure a clever airplane-builder could figure out a way to rig up a pump to get the fuel up into the wing tank.    My Corvair loves 100LL so I never did go this route but it was my plan at one time.    Scott Laughlin 601XL/Corvair, PIC Omaha, NE     Read this topic online here:  http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193324#193324                  [quote][b]

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