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Engine 'first' start

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recapen(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:14 am Post subject: Engine 'first' start

Folks,



My list of things to do before engine start is getting small and I think it is time to consider letting the dragon breathe some fire.....



I have an Aerosport Power IO360B1F6 (AFP injection, LASAR mags) with a MT three blade prop.



I have the Lycoming manual page for their cold engine start procedures and I have incorporated that in to my engine cold start checklist:



Alt air - off

Prop - high RPM

Fuel valve - select tank

Purge valve - run

Master - on

Fuel boost pump - on

Throttle - full open

Mixture - rich until fuel flow is noted on guage

Throttle - Idle

Mixture - lean

Fuel boost pump - off

Throttle to 1/4

Clear prop

Ignition switch - START

Mixture - to rich smoothly while cranking

Ignition switch  - both when engine fires



Have any of you found that you need to deviate from these instructions in order to get consistent starts?



Thanks for any input,

Ralph

Bruce(at)glasair.org
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:41 am Post subject: Engine 'first' start

No, but make sure you remove a top plug from each cylinder and crank the

engine until you get an oil pressure reading before your first start.



Bruce

www.Glasair.org

 

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recapen(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:01 am Post subject: Engine 'first' start

Thanks Bruce - I have done that - although my intent was to make sure there were no obvious oil leaks - I got an oil pressure reading for 'free'.......



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Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1706
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:07 am Post subject: Engine 'first' start

Not sure if you mean for all cold starts, or just your very first start.

If it is for routine cold starts, you could eliminate some steps. Unless 

the AFP operates very different from the RSA, throttle position has 

nothing to do with priming. Just running rich mixture until fuel flow 

probably isn't enough prime. I use 5 seconds or more of boost pump on my 

IO-360 powered Mooney.

One other hint. Let the engine sit for 30-60 seconds after you prime it 

before you crank. Lets the liquid fuel become vapor.

I don't know, but suspect the purge valve does nothing on a cold engine. 

I think you will find that you can eliminate some of your items, as they 

will always be in the correct position from shutdown.

Hot starts.........that's another discussion.

If it is your very first start...as suggested, leave 4 plugs out, and 

crank engine until you have good oil pressure. Then put plugs back in, 

and do normal cold start.



Ralph E. Capen wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Folks,



 My list of things to do before engine start is getting small and I think it is time to consider letting the dragon breathe some fire.....



 I have an Aerosport Power IO360B1F6 (AFP injection, LASAR mags) with a MT three blade prop.



 I have the Lycoming manual page for their cold engine start procedures and I have incorporated that in to my engine cold start checklist:



 Alt air - off

 Prop - high RPM

 Fuel valve - select tank

 Purge valve - run

 Master - on

 Fuel boost pump - on

 Throttle - full open

 Mixture - rich until fuel flow is noted on guage

 Throttle - Idle

 Mixture - lean

 Fuel boost pump - off

 Throttle to 1/4

 Clear prop

 Ignition switch - START

 Mixture - to rich smoothly while cranking

 Ignition switch  - both when engine fires



 Have any of you found that you need to deviate from these instructions in order to get consistent starts?



 Thanks for any input,

 Ralph

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

Bruce(at)glasair.org
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:38 am Post subject: Engine 'first' start

You want to do it no longer than 30 minutes before your first ever engine

start.



Bruce

www.Glasair.org

 

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recapen(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 7:04 am Post subject: Engine 'first' start

Good point - I'll do it again right before I do the first start.....



--

rgf(at)dcn.davis.ca.us
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:13 am Post subject: Engine 'first' start

After it starts, what's your intention?  I assume it needs to be broken in,

and the various procedures I've seen don't include much ground time running.



Ralph Finch



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recapen(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:36 am Post subject: Engine 'first' start

Ralph,



You're correct, it only has a few hours on it from the factory running.  I'm only planning to check for leaks and make sure both mags are firing properly - won't be much ground running time right from the get go.  



I still need to season the brakes with a couple of taxi runs and make sure I can get fuel flow for climbout time at climbout attitude - I'm thinking that the fuel flow can be done by pointing the nose at climbing attitude and running the boost pump - shouldn't need the engine running.



More thoughts.....



Ralph



--

rv(at)thelefflers.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:37 am Post subject: Engine 'first' start

Wally Anderson (Synergy Air) made a presentation about pre first flight inspections at OSH.  He disconnected the fuel line and measured how much fuel he could get in x amount of minutes.  He stated that is how he ensured that there wasn't fuel starvation on the first flight and to ensure there wasn't any debris in the fuel line.

[quote] 

 From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>

 Date: 2008/08/06 Wed AM 11:35:53 EST

 To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Engine 'first' start

 Ralph,

 You're correct, it only has a few hours on it from the factory running.  I'm only planning to check for leaks and make sure both mags are firing properly - won't be much ground running time right from the get go.  

 I still need to season the brakes with a couple of taxi runs and make sure I can get fuel flow for climbout time at climbout attitude - I'm thinking that the fuel flow can be done by pointing the nose at climbing attitude and running the boost pump - shouldn't need the engine running.

 More thoughts.....

 Ralph

 --

Dale Ensing

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 571
Location: Aero Plantation Weddington NC

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:55 am Post subject: Engine 'first' start

During first start plan to have someone stand watch with fire extinguisher 

handy looking for oil and gas leaks, smoke or fire. Watch the observer and 

have hand signals for emergency shut down.

Dale

----- >

 	  Quote: 	
		   More thoughts.....



 Ralph

_________________
Dale Ensing
RV-6A
Aero Plantation
Weddington NC

recapen(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:08 am Post subject: Engine 'first' start

Thanks for the fuel line tip.....



--

recapen(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:32 am Post subject: Engine 'first' start

I've already made a donation to the local fire department - they want to see anyway...don't get to the airport much....Thanks!



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pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:32 am Post subject: Engine 'first' start

Get one of the 'halon' fire extinguishers.  Failing that, make sure that 

the powder in the one you get from Home Depot isn't corrosive to 

aluminum.  I'm being told that the newer fire extinguisher powder isn't 

as corrosive as the old stuff .... but that just means your pride and 

joy will take longer to become a corroded POS.  Per my hangar agreement 

I have to buy a 20BC (or better) extinguisher.  All I can find is powder 

types .... and they already know when the fire is put out, there'll a 

full extinguisher with paint burns on it.  Your insurance won't pay for 

the corroded POS in the long term.

Linn

Oh yeah .... jumping up and down holding the fire extinguisher doesn't 

count as a hand signal!!!

do not archive

Dale Ensing wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 During first start plan to have someone stand watch with fire 

 extinguisher handy looking for oil and gas leaks, smoke or fire. Watch 

 the observer and have hand signals for emergency shut down.

 Dale

 ----- >

> More thoughts.....

>

> Ralph

sbuc(at)hiwaay.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:54 am Post subject: Engine 'first' start

Ralph E. Capen wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <recapen(at)earthlink.net>

 

 I've already made a donation to the local fire department - they want

 to see anyway...don't get to the airport much....Thanks!


	


Just make sure all your fuel and oil lines are tight and there shouldn't 

be any way for a fire to start. If your plane is ready for flight, the 

risk of fire at first engine start will be the same as when you run out 

to the airport six months from now for a flight around the neighborhood.



It's not like the engine is going to explode.  



Best wishes for a great phase One.  



Sam Buchanan

recapen(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:18 pm Post subject: Engine 'first' start

Thanks Sam!



--

Dale Ensing

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 571
Location: Aero Plantation Weddington NC

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:10 pm Post subject: Engine 'first' start

Actually Sam, there is another way for a fire on the first engine start even 

with all the oil and gas lines tight...electrical!

Several years ago when I was still building my 6A at the airport, another 

builder came over and asked if I would monitor his first start. There was 

smoke almost immediately as the engine attempted to start. Every metal 

connection from the engine to the airframe was cooked! When I asked him 

where his ground strap was he asked me "what is a ground strap?"  All of his 

electrical testing before engine start  didn't pull enough current to show 

the lack of a ground strap but, of course, the starter motor turning the 

engine was another story.

Dale

From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net

To: <rv-list(at)matronics.com>

Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 3:49 PM

Subject: Re: Engine 'first' start

 	  Quote: 	

 Ralph E. Capen wrote:

> 

> <recapen(at)earthlink.net>

>

> I've already made a donation to the local fire department - they want

> to see anyway...don't get to the airport much....Thanks!

 Just make sure all your fuel and oil lines are tight and there shouldn't 

 be any way for a fire to start. If your plane is ready for flight, the 

 risk of fire at first engine start will be the same as when you run out to 

 the airport six months from now for a flight around the neighborhood.

 It's not like the engine is going to explode.  

 Best wishes for a great phase One.  

 Sam Buchanan

_________________
Dale Ensing
RV-6A
Aero Plantation
Weddington NC

sbuc(at)hiwaay.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:42 pm Post subject: Engine 'first' start

Dale Ensing wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Actually Sam, there is another way for a fire on the first engine start 

 even with all the oil and gas lines tight...electrical!

 

 Several years ago when I was still building my 6A at the airport, 

 another builder came over and asked if I would monitor his first start. 

 There was smoke almost immediately as the engine attempted to start. 

 Every metal connection from the engine to the airframe was cooked! When 

 I asked him where his ground strap was he asked me "what is a ground 

 strap?"  All of his electrical testing before engine start  didn't pull 

 enough current to show the lack of a ground strap but, of course, the 

 starter motor turning the engine was another story.

 Dale


	




Yes.......but if we do the thorough pre-start inspection that is 

mandatory......   



Sam Buchanan

recapen(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:48 am Post subject: Engine 'first' start

I'm glad I have a ground strap....thanks to Bob Nuckoll's engineering and literary talents.....



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