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Amperage draw

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jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:37 am Post subject: Amperage draw

Re: 601XL - Does anyone know the actual amperage draw for 1) the old style flap motor, 2) landing and taxi lights and 3) position lights.

 

 Thanks in advance

 Jay in Dallas

   Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com 

  [quote][b]

davgray(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:54 am Post subject: Amperage draw

I blew the fuse to the flap motor on the maiden  flight.  It was a 7A now it is a 15 amp without any problem.  The  current draw increases under flight loads.  The 7 worked on the ground  fine.

 The light circuits draw about 3 amps each.  I  fused them at 7.

 As long as you don't use a fuse larger than the  wire size that supplies the device can handle, it will not be a  problem.

 Fuel Pump 1.6 A, Ignition 3 A (at) 3000  rpm

  

 Gary Ray 601XL  85 hrs.

 [quote]   ---

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:24 am Post subject: Amperage draw

I reported these numbers to the list in April 2007. This was for the old-style motor with the exposed limit switches:  

   

“I measured the current drawn by the flap motor with and without a load. Unloaded it draws about 4 amps. Lifting a 34 pound bucket of sand it draws about 4.5 amps.”  

   

-- Craig  

       

From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Ray

 Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 10:54 AM

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Amperage draw  

  

  

     

I blew the fuse to the flap motor on the maiden flight.  It was a 7A now it is a 15 amp without any problem.  The current draw increases under flight loads.  The 7 worked on the ground fine.  

    

The light circuits draw about 3 amps each.  I fused them at 7.  

    

As long as you don't use a fuse larger than the wire size that supplies the device can handle, it will not be a problem.  

    

Fuel Pump 1.6 A, Ignition 3 A (at) 3000 rpm  

    

   

    

Gary Ray 601XL  85 hrs.  

   	  Quote: 	
		      

----- Original Message -----   

    

From: jaybannist(at)cs.com (jaybannist(at)cs.com)   

    

To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com (zenith601-list(at)matronics.com) ; zenith-list(at)matronics.com (zenith-list(at)matronics.com)   

    

Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 9:37 AM  

    

Subject: Zenith-List: Amperage draw  

    

   

  

Re: 601XL - Does anyone know the actual amperage draw for 1) the old style flap motor, 2) landing and taxi lights and 3) position lights.

 

 Thanks in advance

 Jay in Dallas        

  

Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com  

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       [quote][b]

jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:50 am Post subject: Amperage draw

Craig,  Thanks, that is just what I needed.

 

 I wonder why the difference between what you and Gary are reporting for the flap motor draw?  Could it be that Gary's flap hits the physical stop plate before the actuator up limit switch clicks, momentarily drawing excessive current? (I'm not sure that would be a bad thing)

 

 Thanks again - Jay

 Do not archive

 

   

 

   

 

 --

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:19 pm Post subject: Amperage draw

I was reading steady-state current on a digital meter. So I would miss an initial surge. Also my measurements did not involve the motor reaching a physical stop. On the other hand if your actuator does reach a physical stop I would say the limit switches are misadjusted or not effective.  

   

At the time the motivation of my measurements was the worries of some builders that the micro-switches in their stick grips couldn’t handle the current from the flap motor.  

   

-- Craig  

     

From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jaybannist(at)cs.com

 Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 12:44 PM

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Amperage draw  

  

     

Craig,  Thanks, that is just what I needed.

 

 I wonder why the difference between what you and Gary are reporting for the flap motor draw?  Could it be that Gary's flap hits the physical stop plate before the actuator up limit switch clicks, momentarily drawing excessive current? (I'm not sure that would be a bad thing)

 

 Thanks again - Jay

 Do not archive  

    

   

    

   

  

--

jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:22 pm Post subject: Amperage draw

I am honestly not trying to start something, but I seem to have read somewhere, that it is recommended that the flap be tight against the stop when it is retracted to prevent any possibility of flutter. If that is the case, it would be necessary that the flap hit the stop a nanosecond before the limit switch clicks.  I'm sure we can set those limit switches to the nanosecond, right?  ( ;>D� On the other hand, I also suppose that the flap motor might "coast" a little after the limit switch cuts power, ensuring a tight fit to the stop.

 

 Jay in Dallas

 

   

 

   

 

 --

davgray(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:47 pm Post subject: Amperage draw

Actually my fuse blew the moment that I touched the  switch so in my case I could not have hit a stop as the flaps did not  deploy.  At the time (first flight) I did not have it connected in series  with an amperage meter. The plane landed fine without any flaps.  I  was not concerned.  I found no problems with the wiring.  I still have  not measured the actual amperage during flap deployment.  The flaps have  functioned well during the last several hundred smoke tests.  (turn it on  and see where it smokes)  

  

 Gary Ray

  

   [quote][b]

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:51 pm Post subject: Amperage draw

Motor circuits often have surge currents on start up that are more than double the steady state running current of the motor. The surge current will even be larger than the locked rotor current. The surge current is impossible to measure with a digital meter and even with an analog meter, the surge may peak out faster than the needle can follow. You need a device designed to measure these short duration peaks to get an accurate reading. If you fuse for the steady state current, these surges will eventually blow a normal fuse. The main purpose of a fuse is to protect the wire supplying the circuit so don't worry that the fuse value is larger than the current draw of the circuit as long as it's not too large for the wire. Landing lights also have surge currents on start up because the filament resistance increases as it heats up, so a landing light circuit may need a larger fuse than you suspect.

On Nov 10, 2008, at 2:44 PM, jaybannist(at)cs.com (jaybannist(at)cs.com) wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Craig,  Thanks, that is just what I needed.



I wonder why the difference between what you and Gary are reporting for the flap motor draw?  Could it be that Gary's flap hits the physical stop plate before the actuator up limit switch clicks, momentarily drawing excessive current? (I'm not sure that would be a bad thing)



	




 -- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL, 

RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.



 



 [quote][b]

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:04 pm Post subject: Amperage draw

I am guessing that it is those surge currents that are getting me.  I am not having any trouble with individual circuits.  Where I am blowing fuses is the feed to the Essential Bus.  I have the flaps on that bus.  I will increase the size of those fuses to what the wires can handle and see if that does the trick.

 

 Thanks - Jay

 

   

 

   

 

 --

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:36 pm Post subject: Amperage draw

Attached is a snapshot of page 9 of the photo guide for 6-B-19 (rev 2, 8/18/05). The rubber wheel depresses the roller on the limit switch. If the rubber goes beyond that it overstresses the switch. Unless you add some sort of external stops I don’t know how the stock motor supplies an adjustable mechanical stop.  

   

One advantage of the Ray Allen flap rocker switch over a conventional DPDT switch is that the two internal micro-switches short the motor leads together in the off/center position. This causes the motor to act like a brake. Just make sure you order RS2-5 for the 5 amp version:  

   

http://www.rayallencompany.com/products/switches.html  

   

“The RS2 rocker switch provided with your Ray Allen trim system is designed to electrically short the servo motor to ground (-) when released. This stops the output shaft without any coasting, allowing precise positioning when trimming your aircraft. The RS2 rocker switch is rated at 1 amp.”  

(http://www.rayallencompany.com/RACmedia/instructionsT2andT3.pdf - page 2)  

   

-- Craig  

     

From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jaybannist(at)cs.com

 Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 2:22 PM

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Amperage draw  

  

     

I am honestly not trying to start something, but I seem to have read somewhere, that it is recommended that the flap be tight against the stop when it is retracted to prevent any possibility of flutter. If that is the case, it would be necessary that the flap hit the stop a nanosecond before the limit switch clicks.  I'm sure we can set those limit switches to the nanosecond, right?  ( ;>D  On the other hand, I also suppose that the flap motor might "coast" a little after the limit switch cuts power, ensuring a tight fit to the stop.

 

 Jay in Dallas  

    

   

    

   

  

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ding(at)tbscc.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:00 pm Post subject: Amperage draw

�    I adjusted my flap limit switches to shut off just very slightly after the flap  hits the stop. This puts a slight twist pressure on the flap to keep it  rigid in flight. I popped several fuses  (15 A.) during the adjustment  process. As soon as the motor is stalled, the load is too great. I've had  no problems at all with it in flight.

                                                                                                                             Lynn          601XL / Corvair   

    [quote][b]

kmccune

Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:21 am Post subject: Re: Amperage draw

There are also different types of fuses, but generally they are slow and fast acting fuses. Make sure that you have the slow acting type for a motor circuit. The inrush current of DC motors is  10 or more  times the steady current draw or so, but only for milliseconds or at least a pretty short time. The fast acting ones will blow on high inrush currents as they are made to protect delicate electronics and not the wiring. The slow acting type will not blow on inrush if the circuit is OK and you have chosen the correct rating.  They are rated by % overload VS time, the mfg should have this info on their website. 



Kevin

_________________
“Always do what you are afraid to do.”
R.W. Emerson (1803-1882)

"Real freedom is the sustained act of being an individual." WW - 2009

"Life is a good deal...it's worth it" Feb 1969
Dorothy McCune

goodings(at)yorku.ca
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:54 am Post subject: Amperage Draw

The current-carrying capacity of wires is listed as: 18 A.W.G. (5 amp. in 

flexible wire (A.W.G. = American wire gauge), 16 A.W.G. (7 amp.) and 14 

A.W.G. (15 amp.).  For all routine wiring, use 18 A.W.G. aircraft wire - 

it is strong enough.  Use a fuse matched to the device you are running; 

allow a 50% overrun.  This assumes the device has an amperage rating less 

than the wire supplying it.  For delicate things, 20 A.W.G. may be enough. 

For starter motors, etc., much bigger gauge is needed - as big as you can 

reasonably use.  And, use SLOW-BLOW fuses which will stand a bit of a 

surge, not fast-blow.



John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Ottawa/Carp/Toronto.

jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:06 am Post subject: Amperage draw

Lynn,

 

 Thanks.  That is precisely what I intend to do.

 

 Jay

 

   

 

   

 

 --

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