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Flush fuel caps

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vmenkal(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:34 pm Post subject: Flush fuel caps

Seeking advice on flush fuel cap installation.



Planning to install ACS 10610 vented flush fuel caps on my 701 fuel  

tanks to make the wings pretty (and hopefully avoid some of the  

problems with the existing filler necks and caps).    I was wondering  

if anyone else has installed flush fuel caps and what treatment was  

used for the skin - cap flange interface.      Were the skins riveted  

to the the fuel cap tank flange or where they left free to flap in the  

breeze as the stock installation?     Was the skin extended over the  

flange right up to the cap or butted up to the flange.    Any problems  

with fit due to curvature of the skin and the distance from the skin  

to the flange?  Did it hurt when you cut off the existing filler neck?



And finally any thoughts on the best gasket material and fasteners to  

use.    Any pros and cons on cork vs standard fuel resistant gasket  

goop?



Thanx Vic



Whitehorse Yukon

CH701 tail feathers complete covering wings

Brady

Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 182
Location: Poulsbo, WA

Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 12:14 pm Post subject: Re: Flush fuel caps

Vic,



Here is a picture of the caps I put in my wings.

Is this what you had in mind?

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_________________
Brady McCormick
Poulsbo, WA
www.magnificentmachine.com

ricklach

Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 127
Location: Kernville, Calif.

Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:37 am Post subject: Re: Flush fuel caps

Great job Brady, could you provide some more info about the installation. What type of caps and where did you get them? How do they attach to the fuel tank? How did you attach them to the skin? Anything you can provide would be of great help as I have wanted to make this mod for a while but just haven’t gotten there yet. So it looked like now is the time.



Thanks 



Rick

_________________
701Driver
N35 26.700, W118 16.743

Brady

Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 182
Location: Poulsbo, WA

Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:18 am Post subject: Re: Flush fuel caps

Vic & Rick, 



The Caps are the same ones the 601 boys use. I got them from Aircraft spruce # 05-28666.

To get the flange to sit flush with the skins I had to adjust the angle of the threaded bung that is welded into the tank. Because I welded my own tanks and I knew I wanted flush caps from the out set, I just welded them in at the correct angle.

I don't think this would be an easy retro fit. 

To keep the skin tight to the flange I put a piece of soft foam (like a sponge) between the skin & the tank to evenly hold it up and then just screwed the cap flange down over it.



Clear as mud?

_________________
Brady McCormick
Poulsbo, WA
www.magnificentmachine.com

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:32 am Post subject: Flush fuel caps

So how do you vent your tanks? The caps on the 601XL are not vented but they

are on the 701. Did you add a vent when you built your tank?



-- Craig



--

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:33 am Post subject: Flush fuel caps

One 601XL builder (Patrick W.) used the foam sleeves you put around a beer

can to support the skin around the neck.



-- Craig



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Brady

Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 182
Location: Poulsbo, WA

Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 12:22 pm Post subject: Re: Flush fuel caps

Ah! 

101 uses for the BEER COZY!

I love it!

But wait! 

what if your beer gets warm!

Oh crap!

quick! i need another beer cozy!  



The tanks are vented through the bottom like a Cessna tank.

the vent tube is cut at a 45* angle at the top and the bottom, it is positioned so that it is at the farthest forward and upper corner. It is welded to the bottom of the tank and the 45* angles face forward so as to provide positive pressure in flight.



I figured if gravity feed tanks on high wing aircraft have been vented like this for almost a hundred years or so it should be good enough for my 701

_________________
Brady McCormick
Poulsbo, WA
www.magnificentmachine.com

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 12:29 pm Post subject: Flush fuel caps

Intentionally or unintentionally you have duplicated the vents in the 601XL

tanks.



My only question about the beer can insulator is if the foam rubber

disintegrates in contact with fuel.



-- Craig



--

Brady

Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 182
Location: Poulsbo, WA

Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:54 pm Post subject: Re: Flush fuel caps

Craig,



I had noticed that the 601 uses the same vents, in fact I wondered why the 701 wasn't designed that way initially?

I was familiar with the Cessna's' vents before I was aware the 601s were done that way. When I saw that the 601s were vented like that, that is when I noticed the flush caps.

Now I pay very close attention to the way things are done on the 601 so as not to over look any thing that may improve the 701.



I actually have the plans for a 601 as well and that may be my next project although the Cassutt has the potential to be a much faster airplane and may be the test bed I need to prove my products in a more extreme environment.



I had considered that the gas may melt the foam as well so I seated the flanges in a compound call 3M 5200 which (from what I understand) was developed by 3M for Boeing.

This stuff is common to boat builders and has the reputation for being very tenacious stuff.

I have used it extensively in the marine industry and I have seen it De laminate the best of composite layups on dis assembly.

there is a liquid anti adhesive that allows you to un-glue it but it is slow and expensive.

I have found that a hot putty knife is best used to cut the bond.



I have not seen how it reacts to long term exposure to gasoline but that's why we call it experimental. 



I plan on being very careful during fueling and promise not to spill much

_________________
Brady McCormick
Poulsbo, WA
www.magnificentmachine.com

Curt.Thompson(at)verizon.
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:34 pm Post subject: Flush fuel caps

I'd use a sealed cap and vent the tank.  There are messages in the archive

about fuel getting siphoned out of vented caps (unless they have the forward

facing vent tube brazed to the cap).



Curt

raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:12 pm Post subject: Flush fuel caps

Greetings,



    I'm not familiar with the way Cessna vents their tanks.  Can you refer 

me to a diagram?



Thanks,

Raymond Julian

Kettle River, MN



"Hope for the best,

but prepare for the worst."



do not archive



---

Curt.Thompson(at)verizon.
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:22 pm Post subject: Flush fuel caps

Raymond,



Here is a Cessna Tech Note on "Uneven Fuel Feeding in Single Engine

Cessna's":

http://www.moonflight.org/Documents/Fflow.pdf



It has a lot of info about the fuel system.



Curt

raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:16 pm Post subject: Flush fuel caps

Curt,



    Thanks for the reply. Lots of schematics and info. I'll put that one in 

my library.



    I'm still looking for a diagram for the physical setup of the vent. I 

can't visualize the way it was described.



Raymond Julian

Kettle River, MN



"Hope for the best,

but prepare for the worst."



do not archive



---

Curt.Thompson(at)verizon.
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:36 pm Post subject: Flush fuel caps

Here is a sketch of what I think Brady was writing about.



Curt

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Brady

Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 182
Location: Poulsbo, WA

Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:07 am Post subject: Re: Flush fuel caps

That's it !

Exactly!   

Except the vent is as far forward in the tank as possible because they are taller in the front.

The low side of the fuel cap is a bit farther aft so you can never fill the tank all the way to the very top. so unless you had over full tanks and were in a severe nose down attitude fuel should not leak out the vent. (other than slosh)

_________________
Brady McCormick
Poulsbo, WA
www.magnificentmachine.com

raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:53 am Post subject: Flush fuel caps

Thank you very much, now I understand. Looks like a good simple system.



Thanks again Curt and Brady.



Raymond Julian

Kettle River, MN



"Hope for the best,

but prepare for the worst."



do not archive

---

ricklach

Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 127
Location: Kernville, Calif.

Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 5:43 pm Post subject: Re: Flush fuel caps

One last question Brady. What size tube did you use in your tanks for the vent tube? I guess two question, what size material did you make your tanks out of. I will be making my tanks this winter and the material used in the factory tanks seams so thin.



Thanks 



Rick

_________________
701Driver
N35 26.700, W118 16.743

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