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ronlee(at)pcisys.net
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:44 am    Post subject: Need info Reply with quote
Can't anyone correct the subject line?

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jfogarty(at)tds.net
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:27 am    Post subject: Need info Reply with quote
Dan, Your question was good, you now know the answer. I'm sure that all of the builders acquired this knowledge at some point, either by reading the manual, EAA Chapter Tech, a friend building a plane and/or A&P. Great, keep working on that plane, I'm sure you are doing a great job. Because of your post, I now know we need to be really careful when we flair our tubing, per Ed's post. On my own tubing I have always cleaned them a little with emery cloth. Ed, what do you think about using emery cloth on the flair? What do we do with the rough edge made by the flairing tool?

Jim Fogarty
RV9a building
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Ed Anderson



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 475
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:55 pm    Post subject: Need info Reply with quote
Jim, I’m not an A&P, so not certain what the correct answer to your question should be about using emery cloth. Ideally, the answer is to buy one of those very expensive “double flair” makers – it folds that ragged end under and gives you a smooth joint. No, I didn’t spring for one either {:>)


But, one thing you can to before you make the flare is to smooth the ends as much as possible after cutting them. Small cracks lead to bigger cracks when you flair. The second thing is that frequently ragged ends are caused by having too much tube length sticking out of the clamp for flaring, that leads to over stretching and ragged edges. No I don’t know of the magic formula – but there probably is one somewhere.

Personally, I feel if you smooth the end as much as you can, then only protrude the proper length of tubing for the flair, you can live with a small degree of roughness on the edge. The edge does not do the sealing that is done back down the throat, so while it may look a bit “ragged” it is likely to function just fine. Now don’t ignore cracks that you can see are stretching down into the flair.

Hopefully an A&P type out there will have a better answer.

Ed

Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
http://www.andersonee.com
http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html


From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Fogarty at Lakes & Leisure Realty
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:26 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Need info


Dan, Your question was good, you now know the answer. I'm sure that all of the builders acquired this knowledge at some point, either by reading the manual, EAA Chapter Tech, a friend building a plane and/or A&P. Great, keep working on that plane, I'm sure you are doing a great job. Because of your post, I now know we need to be really careful when we flair our tubing, per Ed's post. On my own tubing I have always cleaned them a little with emery cloth. Ed, what do you think about using emery cloth on the flair? What do we do with the rough edge made by the flairing tool?



Jim Fogarty

RV9a building
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Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
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Vanremog(at)aol.com
Guest
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:19 pm    Post subject: Need info Reply with quote
Another thing builders often do without thinking is to use those sharp wheel tube cutters that work harden the end of the tubing, try to flair this area and end up with cracks. You can use this type of cutter but you are going to have to cut the tubing slightly greater than final size and then file off the hardened alloy to get down to the dead soft material. This is akin to Van's instructions to redrill to size the mechanically punched holes in skins in order to remove the slight area of work hardened material.


N1GV (RV-6A, Flying 908hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon Valley)


In a message dated 12/4/2008 2:56:54 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com writes:
Quote:

Jim, I’m not an A&P, so not certain what the correct answer to your question should be about using emery cloth. Ideally, the answer is to buy one of those very expensive “double flair” makers – it folds that ragged end under and gives you a smooth joint. No, I didn’t spring for one either {:>)


But, one thing you can to before you make the flare is to smooth the ends as much as possible after cutting them. Small cracks lead to bigger cracks when you flair. The second thing is that frequently ragged ends are caused by having too much tube length sticking out of the clamp for flaring, that leads to over stretching and ragged edges. No I don’t know of the magic formula – but there probably is one somewhere.




Make your life easier with all your friends, e=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010">Try it now.
[quote][b]

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john_s_bright(at)yahoo.co
Guest
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 4:55 am    Post subject: Need info Reply with quote
What type of cutter is there other than the sharp rolling wheel?

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From: "Vanremog(at)aol.com" <Vanremog(at)aol.com>
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 11:17:49 PM
Subject: Re: Need info

Another thing builders often do without thinking is to use those sharp wheel tube cutters that work harden the end of the tubing, try to flair this area and end up with cracks. You can use this type of cutter but you are going to have to cut the tubing slightlygreater thanfinalsize and then file off the hardened alloy to get down to the dead soft material. This is akin to Van's instructions to redrill to size the mechanicallypunched holes inskins in order to remove the slight area of work hardened material.


N1GV (RV-6A, Flying 908hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon Valley)


In a message dated 12/4/2008 2:56:54 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com writes:
Quote:

Jim, Im not an A&P, so not certain what the correct answer to your question should be about using emery cloth. Ideally, the answer is to buy one of those very expensive double flair makers it folds that ragged end under and gives you a smooth joint. No, I didnt spring for one either {:>)


But, one thing you can to before you make the flare is to smooth the ends as much as possible after cutting them. Small cracks lead to bigger cracks when you flair. The second thing is that frequently ragged ends are caused by having too much tube length sticking out of the clamp for flaring, that leads to over stretching and ragged edges. No I dont know of the magic formula but there probably is one somewhere.




Make your life easier with all your friends, e=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010">Try it now.
Quote:

[quote][b]

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dan(at)rdan.com
Guest
PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:07 am    Post subject: Need info Reply with quote
Does any lubricant like boelube help with the cuttting of flairing process?

--- On Fri, 12/5/08, John Bright <john_s_bright(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote:
From: John Bright <john_s_bright(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Need info
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Friday, December 5, 2008, 4:54 AM

What type of cutter is there other than the sharp rolling wheel?

do not archive
From: "Vanremog(at)aol.com" <Vanremog(at)aol.com>
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 11:17:49 PM
Subject: Re: Need info

Another thing builders often do without thinking is to use those sharp wheel tube cutters that work harden the end of the tubing, try to flair this area and end up with cracks. You can use this type of cutter but you are going to have to cut the tubing slightly greater than final size and then file off the hardened alloy to get down to the dead soft material. This is akin to Van's instructions to redrill to size the mechanically punched holes in skins in order to remove the slight area of work hardened material.


N1GV (RV-6A, Flying 908hrs, O-360-A1A, C/S, Silicon Valley)


In a message dated 12/4/2008 2:56:54 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com writes:
Quote:

Jim, Im not an A&P, so not certain what the correct answer to your question should be about using emery cloth. Ideally, the answer is to buy one of those very expensive double flair makers it folds that ragged end under and gives you a smooth joint. No, I didnt spring for one either {:>)





But, one thing you can to before you make the flare is to smooth the ends as much as possible after cutting them. Small cracks lead to bigger cracks when you flair. The second thing is that frequently ragged ends are caused by having too much tube length sticking out of the clamp for flaring, that leads to over stretching and ragged edges. No I dont know of the magic formula but there probably is one somewhere.






Make your life easier with all your friends, e=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010">Try it now.
Quote:



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bifft(at)xmission.com
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:54 am    Post subject: Need info Reply with quote
On Fri, 5 Dec 2008, dan(at)rdan.com wrote:

Quote:
Does any lubricant like boelube help with the cuttting of flairing process?

the instructions that came withmy flaring tool said to put a drop of oil
on the cone. Never tried using it without, so don't know how much
difference it makes.
Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com)
RV-8A 80091 fitting fuel vent tubing.
1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying

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gcomfo(at)tc3net.com
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:06 pm    Post subject: Need info Reply with quote
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