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gus.fraser(at)gs.com
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 Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:39 am Post subject: [Comment]Commercial and Compensation |
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Val,
There is a great line which I am sure Brian will appreciate in the current film V is for Vendetta (which I read when it came out, great story in it's original form)
"The people should not be scared of the government, the government should be scared of the people".
Gus
| Quote: | From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Valkyre1
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 11:03 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commercial and Compensation
Just a thought here on who and what we're dealing with when we put ourselves in a grey area of legalities and run into an FAA employee who just may have gotten up on the wrong side of bed;
To make a long story ...not quite so long, nineteen years ago I was flying as co-pilot on a 737 at the end of a four day trip. The day was CAVU and not another aircraft was within 150 miles as we landed in Casper, Wyo. enroute to SLC.
In those days, we made quick turn arounds. ( Land, unload baggage-passengers, reload all, and leave within about 15 minutes.) This was a good trip and everyone seemed in a good mood. We were having fun. I called for taxi clearance and received it, called for takeoff (captain was flying/taxiing) and received the OK for that too.
As we departed and were told to switch frequencies we thanked tower for the help and they cheerily told us to "have a nice day."
When we landed in SLC our Chief Pilot was out to meet us telling us that Casper had called him and filed a violation on us for taxiing and taking off without a clearance. We were horrified and asked each other "Did we DO that!?" We both concluded that we had not, and my Captain said that he would talk to the tower Chief in CPR when he went through the next day.
The tower chief apologized to my captain and told him that we had been dealing with a supervisor and a trainee who filed the violation against us. They were the only personnel in the tower. Evidently the supervisor had "issues" because he had wanted to be an airline pilot and been rejected. He also had "issues" with female voices coming out of the cockpit. The tower chief said that he would have thrown out the complaint but he could not because it had already been filed. They wanted to slap us with a "minor" violation and 5 days off.
I did not want a violation on my record. Particularly one that I didn't feel we deserved. (Lets forget others that I may have slipped through the net on in previous years.)
I demanded the tower voice tapes and was relieved to hear us ask for and receive all clearances...end of issue, or so I assumed. They sent another letter informing us that the charges had been changed since their initial complaint was proven false. Now we were accused of moving an inch before they said that we could (in motion) in a "mother-may-I" pissing contest. We had no witnesses other than the two accusing ATC tower people themselves. Faced with something as apparently unjust as this, I refused to go down without at least having our day in court and convinced my captain to go to Seattle for an NTSB hearing which occurred a year later.
The lesson that I learned and the facts that I was reminded of is that a pilot's license is considered a privilege and not a right. NTSB (FAA) courts admittedly function on the premise that you are considered "guilty until proven innocent". The NTSB judge was a good buddy of and played golf with the FAA lawyer. The judge, after hearing our opposing views of what happened ( did we or didn't we start to move a few seconds before being given permission?) asked me if I know of any reasons why the FAA controller would have accused us of this if we hadn't done it. I said yes I did. (I hate playing the gender card, even if it's true.) The judge didn't ask me to tell him the reason, our ALPA attorney didn't pick up on it, and I was too uncomfortable to push it thinking that surely someone would ask. They didn't ask and we lost our only chance of being vindicated.
The prosecuting attorney said that since the tower Supervisor had nothing to gain by unfairly violating us, and since we had something to lose (our first and only violation) quote: "The pilots must be lying and the controllers must be telling the truth." Of course I resented being called "a liar" by default, no less, and turned to my Attorney." He told us "Look, I have a tennis match to get to, the violation is minor, and you should just take it and drop it. You can't win in a case where it's the FAA's word against yours, this is THEIR court and not a civil court. You don't have the same rights here."
That, my friends, is the story of my first and only violation. it was a learning experience. At least I got the opportunity to meet our accusers and to make them go all of the way to Seattle, endure the same uncomfortable days in court that they subjected pilots to, and hopefully ask themselves if violating their next pilot really had enough truth to it to justify backing it up. It was rather disgusting to watch the Supervisor, Mr. Short, slapping hands and high fiveing his buddies over his perceived victory. It wasn't the trainees fault. He seemed like a decent guy, just caught in the situation.
I did get some sense of vindication when I walked up behind Mr. Short (and he was short...about 5' 7") doing his victory dance. Everyone became quiet and my captain later told me "I just kept thinking....Don't hit him Val!". He turned and I looked him in the eye and said "Mr. Short, up until now I have always had the highest regard for Air Traffic Controllers. They're wonderful people and have always done a fine job for me. You are the exception. Regardless of this court ruling, both you and I know why you really did this to us and it's a gross abuse of power. At this point I have no choice but to bid around Casper Wyoming because I don't know when you're going to get up on the wrong side of bed and decide to throw your weight around again. Your contemporaries deserve to be represented by better men than you."
He had been sweating profusely and just kept the same silly grin and blank look plastered on his face as he absently muttered "thank you." I don't think that he even knew who I was, much less registered what I said.
Point being, let's fight the good fight, knowing well who we're dealing with and what we have to work with. Let's get a regulation that we can defend in court firmly set in place BEFORE we have to defend ourselves. Don't hope for nebulous solutions because it's hard enough to defend even the best of your actions in an NTSB Court. Not the same rules and rights and both the judge and the jury can also be your accusers. This is definitely not meant to discourage you guys. Quite the contrary. Just to give you good tools to fight the good fight.
Happy ending for me was that it was such a minor violation and happened so long ago that I think it has long since left my record (I hope). That's just my understanding of the law.
Fly Safe, have fun, and don't go through Casper Wyoming. At least not on Mr. Shorts watch. That's assuming he hasn't already been pummeled into submission by another irate Amazon. (laugh)
Fraternally, - Val
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brian
Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 643
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:46 pm Post subject: [Comment]Commercial and Compensation |
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Fraser, Gus wrote:
| Quote: | Val,
There is a great line which I am sure Brian will appreciate in the
current film V is for Vendetta (which I read when it came out, great
story in it's original form)
"The people should not be scared of the government, the government
should be scared of the people".
|
Yes. Why do you think the Constitution of the United States has the
second amendment?
Val, that is a great story. Fortunately for me my "encounters" with the
FAA have gone the other way but if they hadn't, I would go down fighting
too. Good on you! And good on Bill Bainbridge and Bob Hoover. The FAA is
not notorious for turning around when they are wrong.
Here's to Mr. Short becoming the subject of retroactive birth control.
Brian Lloyd
brian HYPHEN yak AT lloyd DOT com
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_________________
Brian Lloyd
brian-yak at lloyd dot com
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery |
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Valkyre1(at)comcast.net
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| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:37 am Post subject: [Comment]Commercial and Compensation |
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Glad you enjoyed the tale as intended. 99% of my other experiences with the FAA, as I told Mr. Short, were positive as well. There's always one bad apple in every bunch. You just hope that you don't run into them - and "I'll drink to that." ; )
- Val
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