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frans(at)paardnatuurlijk.
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 Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:52 pm Post subject: Has anyone mounted their battery aft of baggage |
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rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote:
| Quote: | I agree it's best to crimp first, but when I crimped after
soldering, things seemed OK where I stressed wires until they failed, not
because of crimp or soldering.
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This is not a good test. The problem is that solder is soft, and
repeated heating and cooling causes it to slowly give way, making the
connection weaker with every heat cycle. It just *appears* to be strong
in the beginning, but weakens over time. The failure is mainly time
related, not stress related.
Don't solder before you crimp, the connection will eventually fail.
Before it completely fails, it starts to give temperature related
intermittent connections, making troubleshooting very difficult, and it
generates excess heat on the connection where the resistance is high,
enough to start a fire if the current is high enough.
Just don't do it, and if you did already so, fix it before you start
trusting your life to it.
--
Frans
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rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.n
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| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:08 pm Post subject: Has anyone mounted their battery aft of baggage |
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Hi Frans
"Don't solder before you crimp, the connection will eventually fail.
Before it completely fails, it starts to give temperature related
Intermitteni connections, making troubleshooting very difficult, and it
generates excess heat on the connection where the resistance is high,
enough to start a fire if the current is high enough.
Just don't do it, and if you did already so, fix it before you start
trusting your life to it."
Thx. for the reply.
Like I stated, plan to crimp first then solder on the "real deal".
That said I would like to visit why as you indicate a high resistance joint will in fact occur with a soldered first, then crimped joint? Please elaborate, as I am not quite certain as to the why after I got to thinking about it.
First off I machined ID of copper alloy 145 where it just barely allows insertion of #4 CCA, ID is .344"
See picture #12:
http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=album266&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
Thus wire is a pretty darn good fit. On one of my sample pieces I was fooling with I soldered through a 1/8" hole and allowed solder to flow till I just saw it out wire end.
Just for ha has I tried a crimp on it. This is not something I plan to do on the "real deal", but when I crimped the sample it seemed to work quite well meaning that I think the solder joint under the crimp did not get too disturbed, and the tension on the crimpers were about the same with a solderless crimp. The solder joint is ~ .625" long thus the crimp is only a portion, perhaps half that length. There is what appears to be undisturbed solder ~ .1625" before and .1625" after the crimp.
Here is what I am having a little bit of a hard time with, under the crimp true things will get a little distorted, but the 63 37 solder, the aluminium wire with copper clad and the copper lug are all pretty malleable and after thinking about what is going on I kind of think compressing them together into a compact package will not in fact create a fatigued stress riser joint?? Even if it did there is the solder before and after the crimp??
Again strictly a hypothetical case, this joint will be seeing cranking amps of ~ 50 amps for not very long, and probably a continuous drain of under 10 amps for longer than an hour, and charge max. of lets say best case 40 amps engine at take off power with SD 20S and internal generator roaring, and perhaps 100 amps for a very short time if I was desperate enough to use a super automobile for a jump on a completely dead battery.
Just trying to gain more knowledge on things that might not be what they seem.
Thanking you in advance for reply.
Sincerely
Ron Parigoris
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
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frans(at)paardnatuurlijk.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:20 am Post subject: Has anyone mounted their battery aft of baggage |
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rparigoris wrote:
| Quote: | That said I would like to visit why as you indicate a high resistance joint will in fact occur with a soldered first, then crimped joint? Please elaborate, as I am not quite certain as to the why after I got to thinking about it.
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Consider solder as some kind of liquid. It moves over time, and gives
way to any stresses exercised on it. Crimping is a stress, and the
solder will slowly "flow" away under it. This process may take months or
even years, but it will move away finally.
If you crimp something, the connection is made by clamping two or more
metals together. If one of the metals involved is solder and gives way
over time, it compromises the entire "clamp", the whole thing loosens up.
| Quote: | Thus wire is a pretty darn good fit. On one of my sample pieces I was fooling with I soldered through a 1/8" hole and allowed solder to flow till I just saw it out wire end.
Just for ha has I tried a crimp on it. This is not something I plan to do on the "real deal", but when I crimped the sample it seemed to work quite well meaning that I think the solder joint under the crimp did not get too disturbed,
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Just give it some rest, and re-evaluate the sample next year and see how
tight it is by then.
| Quote: | Again strictly a hypothetical case, this joint will be seeing cranking amps of ~ 50 amps for not very long, and probably a continuous drain of under 10 amps for longer than an hour, and charge max. of lets say best case 40 amps engine at take off power with SD 20S and internal generator roaring, and perhaps 100 amps for a very short time if I was desperate enough to use a super automobile for a jump on a completely dead battery.
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In this case it may not be harmfull, but still the solder doesn't do any
good.
--
Frans
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craigb(at)onthenet.com.au
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:54 am Post subject: Has anyone mounted their battery aft of baggage |
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Just a little further to the solder then crimp discussion. An electrical
engineer mate of mine told me that any sort of impact or shock to a soldered
joint is likely to fail over time. He was adament that any form of
mechanical
retention must be done before soldering. It was a few years ago now, but i
believe he mentioned something about work hardening of the joint.
--
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