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f4ffm2(at)roadrunner.com
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 Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:19 pm Post subject: Yak 52 spins-My view |
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I haven't been reading the Yak List for some time now....my choice.
Yesterday, a friend mentioned to me that there was another of those
discussions going on concerning spins in general....and spins in Yak
52s specifically.
So, I've gotten back on list and have read the thread that culminated
with today's message from Jerry Painter.
Most of the discussion concerns spins, spin recognition, spin
avoidance and the necessity of getting good type specific spin training.
However, from two people have come letters basically hammering the
Yak 52 and its spin characteristics. I think that both of these
people are much more experienced that am I in doing spins in a wide
variety of airplanes, however the experience that I do have in Yak
52s leads me to a far different conclusion than has been reached by
the two of them specifically about Yak 52s.
I began doing acro in the 52 by getting some fine instruction from
Yuri Yeltsov from Almaty, Kazakhstan. Yuri was, more than one time,
all USSR DOSAAF Yak 52 acro champion and had spent years instructing
in the airplane.
In the ten years or so since then, I've flown the 52 around 1100
hours. I've checked out 20 or so people in the airplane and done
spin training for quite a few more. During those hours, I guess I've
spun the airplane at least 1500 times. Those spins would be normal
upright with steep entry, level entry, hammerhead entry; flat spins
and acclerated flat spins....as well as inverted spins. These spins
have been done in at least 15 different airplanes. I'm a heavy guy
and I've done these spins solo, dual with me in the front and a
skinny guy in the back; with me in the back and a skinny person in
the front, etc. etc.
My point in saying all the above is to lay the background for saying
that, in EVERY case, the airplane recovered from the spin EXACTLY as
expected. NOT ONE TIME did the airplane spook me by not doing what I
expected it to do.
From my point of view, people can go into all the spin philosophy
and techno-analysis that they like....but, in my experience, it all
boils down to the fact that the Yak 52 spins predictably and recovers
predictably....every time.
Roger Baker
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wise(at)txc.net.au
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| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:11 pm Post subject: Yak 52 spins-My view |
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I totally agree with the article posted by Roger Baker.
Whilst not having the hours that he has in a 52, I have had the pleasure and
joy to own a exceptionally well restored Yak 52.
I now drive a 18 T which is more suited to our needs.
The Yak 52 is a big bang for the buck and is a extremely capable aerobatic
beast.
Properly rigged and in balance, it is a delightful to fly.
Perhaps I am not listening, or not reading all these articles about spins
properly.
We had to be instructed to learn to drive a car, we needed instruction to
learn to fly, hell we got taught and instructed about so much in life.
Surely this thing about spins must come back to receiving the correct
instruction re stalls and spins.
Cripes, we got instruction to do aerobatics.
In talking to people that fly airplanes, I am constantly amazed at how many
have never stalled an airplane, let alone spin an airplane.
To me a spin is a elementary maneuver.
Stalls and spins where a big part of my training, and as such I respect a
stall and a spin.
I believe that every one learning to fly should be taught spin recovery, and
yes, recovery from stalls, stalls and more stalls.
I have no issues with spinning a Yak 52, PROVIDED that the weight and
balance is correct and within the manufacturers parameters.
I do know of a 52 that had issues with recovering from spins, particularly
inverted spins.
It transpired that there where 2 issues that affected the recovery.
1 The original Russian radios, NDB gear etc had been removed and no
replacement compensating weight replaced.
2 The stick position was incorrect.
Once these issues had been addressed, spin recovery became fine, normal and
inverted.
I do not perhaps have the hours that a lot of you obviously have, but tow a
caravan with too much drawbar weight and it raises the front of the tow
vehicle making it unstable to tow.
Surely flying a beast such as a 52 that has the wrong C of G is going to
stuff things up and one way or another upset the spin recovery.
All I am saying is that if the aircraft is "in balance" and the appropriate
training and instruction is in place, I do not see an issue spinning a 52
and executing a normal recovery.
I have spun our 52 on many occasions and have recovered from inverted spins
without any issues at all.
Including applying the Beggs Meuller technique.
Hope my little bit of input helps, but please remember one thing, get the
right training and instruction and keep the 52 inbalance.
The 52 is a great aircraft, but as all things, inexperience, i.e. lack of
training will bite you.
Cheers,
Chris.
---
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LawnDart
Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 64
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:48 am Post subject: Re: Yak 52 spins-My view |
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+1
Thanks Roger and Chris for commenting and having -52 experience.
My experience has been similar. Over 1000 hrs in -52s, plenty of spins of various types and entries. Instructed by Sergei and others. All spins have recovered as expected.
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dougsappllc(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:53 am Post subject: Yak 52 spins-My view |
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Guys, As you all know I am a CJ driver, and I will admit that I have never flown in a 52, even as a GIB, so if you respond to this post please don't kill the messenger, I'm just sharing a conversation with you. Do with it as you may.
I recently I had the oportunity to talk at length to a high time gent who started a spin in his 52 at 6500 feet and recovered at less than 500 feet! His next mission after cleaning his shorts was to find the best Russian instructor he could find. After 10 hours of dual he came to the following conclusion about the experience, which IMHO sums up all the past posts by Richard. Richard would never say it in this manner because Brit's just don't speak that way. In the 52 owners words: "If you have not had proper spin recovery instruction in your 52 you simply do not know what your talking about, and if you think normal recovery methods will work or if you think you can teach yourself spin recovery in the 52 you are a fool". Strongly worded I must agree, Yankees tend to call a spade a spade when we are really "big eyed serious" about a topic. This man was, his 12 year old son was in the back pit during the 6,000 ft spin.
Always Yakin,
Doug
On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 5:16 PM, Chris Wise <wise(at)txc.net.au (wise(at)txc.net.au)> wrote:
[quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "Chris Wise" <wise(at)txc.net.au (wise(at)txc.net.au)>
I totally agree with the article posted by Roger Baker.
Whilst not having the hours that he has in a 52, I have had the pleasure and joy to own a exceptionally well restored Yak 52.
I now drive a 18 T which is more suited to our needs.
The Yak 52 is a big bang for the buck and is a extremely capable aerobatic beast.
Properly rigged and in balance, it is a delightful to fly.
Perhaps I am not listening, or not reading all these articles about spins properly.
We had to be instructed to learn to drive a car, we needed instruction to learn to fly, hell we got taught and instructed about so much in life.
Surely this thing about spins must come back to receiving the correct instruction re stalls and spins.
Cripes, we got instruction to do aerobatics.
In talking to people that fly airplanes, I am constantly amazed at how many have never stalled an airplane, let alone spin an airplane.
To me a spin is a elementary maneuver.
Stalls and spins where a big part of my training, and as such I respect a stall and a spin.
I believe that every one learning to fly should be taught spin recovery, and yes, recovery from stalls, stalls and more stalls.
I have no issues with spinning a Yak 52, PROVIDED that the weight and balance is correct and within the manufacturers parameters.
I do know of a 52 that had issues with recovering from spins, particularly inverted spins.
It transpired that there where 2 issues that affected the recovery.
1 The original Russian radios, NDB gear etc had been removed and no replacement compensating weight replaced.
2 The stick position was incorrect.
Once these issues had been addressed, spin recovery became fine, normal and inverted.
I do not perhaps have the hours that a lot of you obviously have, but tow a caravan with too much drawbar weight and it raises the front of the tow vehicle making it unstable to tow.
Surely flying a beast such as a 52 that has the wrong C of G is going to stuff things up and one way or another upset the spin recovery.
All I am saying is that if the aircraft is "in balance" and the appropriate training and instruction is in place, I do not see an issue spinning a 52 and executing a normal recovery.
I have spun our 52 on many occasions and have recovered from inverted spins without any issues at all.
Including applying the Beggs Meuller technique.
Hope my little bit of input helps, but please remember one thing, get the right training and instruction and keep the 52 inbalance.
The 52 is a great aircraft, but as all things, inexperience, i.e. lack of training will bite you.
Cheers,
Chris.
---
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richard.goode(at)russiana
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:30 pm Post subject: Yak 52 spins-My view |
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Doug-even in real English,that is totally correct!
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
I’m currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is +94 779 132 160.
[quote] ---
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