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short wing flying death traps

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akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:28 am Post subject: short wing flying death traps

pics of short wing death traps.



Not great shots, I was sceered and shaking as I was flying the short wing death traps over open water in overcast conditions, that surely, only long wings should have ventured...

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_________________
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 (147 hrs and counting on the rebuild)
IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009

I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die....

Paul A. Franz, P.E.

Joined: 02 Dec 2008
Posts: 280
Location: Bellevue WA

Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:39 am Post subject: short wing flying death traps

On Fri, January 23, 2009 12:28 am, akflyer wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 pics of short wing death traps.



 Not great shots, I was sceered and shaking as I was flying the short wing death traps

 over open water in overcast conditions, that surely, only long wings should have

 ventured...


	


I love the photos. The first one showing the quintessential ashtray prominently on the

dash, gave me a smile.



Couple comments.



I was eye balling what was believed to be a 1958 Tri-Pacer at Renton Field last

Saturday and visually, at least it would appear that the chord length of those short

wings was perhaps almost a foot longer than a Cherokee wing. Could that be true? If

so, then they aren't just shortened wings as what was suggested for the KF as the wing

loading would be increased in that case.



I don't believe Piper ever produced a Pacer. I think all of them are converted

Tri-Pacers. Is that true?



In the early 60's Piper had a 3 place small short wing tricycle gear plane called a

Colt. Are there any of those converted to Conventional Gear flying? Seems to me that

might be a pretty useful bush plane (converted Colt).



Is there an STC for those conversions from Tricycle to Conventional gear?



Personally, a Pacer has far greater visual appeal than it did in its former life as a

tricycle gear airplane.



The reason I ask is it would appear to me that a new SuperCub is pushing $200k with a

200HP engine and spending the price of a house on an airplane is out of the question

for many would be recreational bush flyers. (sage brush and river banks are bush

aren't they?)



Cub Crafters has some for sale

<http://www.cubcrafters.com/sales/home.aspx>

but in contrast, 45 to 50 year old Super Cubs are a bit cheaper

<http://www.supercub.org/photoclass/showcat.php?cat=4>

Here's a real nice article with links to lots of Bush planes. This page features the

venerable Super Cub.



Check out this 12 second video of a SuperCub

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPSElw8qEsI&NR=1>

That's what you're talking about, right?



-- 

Paul A. Franz

Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT

Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP

Bellevue WA

425.241.1618 Cell

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_________________
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
425.440.9505 Office

helili(at)chahtatushka.ne
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:56 am Post subject: short wing flying death traps

Paul,

TCDS for Piper Pacer PA-20 attached.



The Colt has the same model designation as the Tripacer, PA-22, which are

tricycle gear versions of the Pacer (Different TCDS).  There are STC's for

gear conversions to conventional gear for the PA 22 Series. See:

www.trimmeraviation.com/gear.html



John Hart

KF IV, NSI Subaru

Wilburton, OK 



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Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:00 am Post subject: short wing flying death traps

Paul Said:

 "I don't  believe Piper ever produced a Pacer. I think all of them are  converted

Tri-Pacers. Is that true?"

  

 Great  informative post, Paul, but I'm pretty sure that it isn't true.  Piper  produced PA20s, which is actually a 4 place Vagabond.  However, there are  converted Tripacers which are called PA22/20s.  

  

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piper_PA-20_Pacer

  

 My first  airplane was a Tripacer and after my first 100 hours in spam can Cessna 150s and  172s, the Tripacer with it's 160hp was almost scary to me.  It wasn't how  it flew, which was different, but all of that power!  However I quickly got  used to it and loved every minute I put on that thing.  I also owned a PA17  Vagabond with A65 that was an excellent flyer and the only reason I moved on to  the Kitfoxes was because the Vagabond's wings didn't fold.  There is a huge  Short Wing Piper Club with an enormous archive of resources to anyone who might  be interested in going that route.  Also, the Colt DOES make a good tail  dragger and looks pretty cool too.  (Same link as above) It just doesn't  have the internal space and useful load that the PA22/20  has.

 Deke Morisse

Mikado Michigan

S5/Subaru/CAP  402+ TT

"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but  progress."

- Joseph Joubert

  

 do not archive

  

 

 

  

 



   [quote][b]

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akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:40 am Post subject: Re: short wing flying death traps

Deke glad you are still with us you crazy bugger, from what I am told you should have killed your fool self in that pacer, dontcha know how dangerous they are? 



And you hit it on the head.  The colt is a 2 place with no flaps.  That is actually what I picked up for my buddy yesterday.  it is a 1961 and is a pretty darn clean bird.



Now for a bit of interesting FACTS.



I flew a 150 hp pa22/20 up with another friend then he flew that one back while i flew the new Colt home.  The colt is 108 hp.  We took off with the same fuel load and we both weight about the same.  I figured the 150 hp would be in super econo cruise so I could keep up.  At 2350 - 2400 RPM (both planes same RPM) we were dead even showing 115 indicated.



John,  Funny you pull up Eddie Trimmers site.... That is the hangar I pulled the plane into to thaw it out yesterday and he is a Pacer FREAK.  He has 5 or 6 STC's for Pacer mods and has rebuilt many of them, very interesting guy to talk to with some cool mods.  The best being the Dual sea plane doors up front and a 180 hp conversion.



Univair has an STC for the tail dragger conversion also.

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helili(at)chahtatushka.ne
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:55 am Post subject: short wing flying death traps

Leonard,

I've known Eddie for more than 30 years.  I used to live up Hatcher Pass

Road about 10 miles east of the Willow Airport.



John Hart

KF IV, NSI Subaru

Wilburton, OK



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