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elevator pitch stability

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chris Sinfield

Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 270
Location: Sydney Australia

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 3:48 am Post subject: elevator pitch stability

Hi 

Has anyone asked Zentih or Chris H why the XL was designed to be so sensitive to pitch? everyone that starts flying always remarks on how sensitive it is in pitch and I would like to give them the designers answer, not what I think he designed it for.. 



If you glance into his Design articles he does mention large pitch changes in STOL aircraft  are required but in the XL??



Just interested in the answer as to why, as when I fly it I move very little in pitch after my arm is locked in place, I just feel it and the pitch changes.

Chris

Zodiac XL

jab3300

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 4:02 am Post subject: elevator pitch stability

Hi Chris,



I think CH has commented several times that one of his design goals 

was to have excellent control authority at slow speed.  Perhaps this 

translates to being very sensitive at high speed for the pitch.



In my short demo ride in the XL I felt the ailerons were also very 

effective at slow speed but stiff at normal speeds.  So, I suppose 

you should ignore my whole comment regarding pitch.



Best regards,



Paul

Getting close

do not archive

At 03:48 AM 2/6/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Has anyone asked Zentih or Chris H why the XL was designed to be so 

sensitive to pitch?

chris Sinfield

Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 270
Location: Sydney Australia

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 4:09 am Post subject: Re: elevator pitch stability

thanks I think.

Hey today it was 41 deg C here in Sydney and on Sunday they say its going to be 44 Deg C.. 

Do not archive..

Chris.

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 4:18 am Post subject: elevator pitch stability

Its 41 degrees here too.



Unfortunately, here it is 41 degrees Fahrenheit rather than Celsius.



Paul

do not archive



At 04:09 AM 2/6/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  thanks I think.

Hey today it was 41 deg C here in Sydney and on Sunday they say its 

going to be 44 Deg C..

Do not archive..

Chris

planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:33 am Post subject: elevator pitch stability

to beat a dead horse again -and again, and again, and again - that is a very strong reason to consider tabs on both elevators and make them anti-servo tabs...



David L. Downey

  Harleysville (SE) PA, USA



  

--- On Fri, 2/6/09, Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net> wrote:

[quote]From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net>

Subject: Re: elevator pitch stability

To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Friday, February 6, 2009, 6:59 AM



[quote]--> Zenith601-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net>



Hi Chris,



I think CH has commented several times that one of his design goals was to have

excellent control authority at slow speed.  Perhaps this translates to         [quote][b]

ter_turn(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:34 am Post subject: elevator pitch stability

Hi Chris, do you actually fly when it's over 40 degrees? How do you stand it under that canopy?



do not archive



--- On Fri, 2/6/09, chris Sinfield <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au> wrote:

[quote]From: chris Sinfield <chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au>

Subject: Re: elevator pitch stability

To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Friday, February 6, 2009, 6:09 AM



[quote]--> Zenith601-List message posted by: "chris Sinfield"

<chris_sinfield(at)yahoo.com.au>



thanks I think.

Hey today it was 41 deg C here in Sydney and on Sunday they say its going to be

44 Deg C.. 

Do not archive..

Chris.





Read this topic online         [quote][b]

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:43 am Post subject: Re: elevator pitch stability

Just because the 601XL isn't quite a STOL as it brothers with STOL in their name are doesn't mean it isn't designed for VERY slow flight and short landings and take-offs. I've flown STOL equipped Cessnas that take about as much room to land as a 601XL with the flaps fully deployed.



Also you must remember that the 601 was designed with that middle stick and from the one time I flew in a center stick version I remember feeling like I didn't have as much room to move the stick fore and aft as I did right and left.

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:11 am Post subject: elevator pitch stability

I have been toying with the idea of placing the Y stick elevator cables  closer together on the stick and seeing what that does as far as sensitivity and  elevator travel. Since we have limited the forward stick down elevator travel I  would think it would require more input of the stick to get the same response  and that would be a good thing. After all it just requires drilling 2 holes in  the stick for the clevises and could be changed back easily.

  

 Jeff

 Great Deals on Dell Laptops. Starting at $499.

  [quote][b]

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:23 am Post subject: elevator pitch stability

Hi Jeff,



 If you move the elevator cables closer together on the stick, I think that would increase the leverage advantage you have and reduce the force required to get a given movement on the elevator.  It would increase the movement distance needed on the stick for the same elevator movement.



 If it is your goal to increase the elevator stick forces you might think about moving the cables further apart on the stick.  However, since I am not a mechanical or aeronautical engineer I have no idea what "Unintended consequences" that sort of change might make.



 I think you are facing a problem with no solution.  You probably need to redesign the whole airplane to get the control feel you seek.



 Paul

 XL getting close

 do not archive



 

 At 07:10 AM 2/6/2009, you wrote:

 [quote]I have been toying with the idea of placing the Y stick elevator cables closer together on the stick and seeing what that does as far as sensitivity and elevator travel. Since we have limited the forward stick down elevator travel I would think it would require more input of the stick to get the same response and that would be a good thing. After all it just requires drilling 2 holes in the stick for the clevises and could be changed back easily.

  

 Jeff[b]

annken100

Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Posts: 62

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:49 am Post subject: Re: elevator pitch stability

In one of Chris Heintz's letters, he mentions that the elevator purposely has a lot of authority for "great low-speed controllability, excellent ground-handling in windy conditions, and superior elevator authority in case of incorrect weight & balance conditions."



The letter is here: http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/data/ch-letter-601xl-3-25-2008.pdf

Ken Pavlou

_________________
601 XL / Corvair

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:14 pm Post subject: Re: elevator pitch stability

 	  annken100 wrote: 	
		  In one of Chris Heintz's letters, he mentions that the elevator purposely has a lot of authority for "great low-speed controllability, excellent ground-handling in windy conditions, and superior elevator authority in case of incorrect weight & balance conditions."



The letter is here: http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/data/ch-letter-601xl-3-25-2008.pdf

Ken Pavlou 	




Which is a great thing to have when that small yet heavy item that you strapped down at the front of the luggage area when the fuel tanks are full comes loose and slides 2 1/2 feet back to the rear of the luggage area when they are almost empty.

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

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