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poneill(at)irealms.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:06 am Post subject: New TSA Security Requirements

At the end of this month the new TSA security requirements for pilots operating out of Part 139 airports take effect.  

   

Unfortunately for me, my primary airport is one of those affected by the new rules (KSNA).  I get to make the first of two trips this week to the airport’s administrative office to apply for a TSA background check and access badge for continued ramp access.  

   

I know most of you operate out of smaller fields.  But I figured I’d see if any other list members have had the pleasure of this experience.  Anyone else been through it yet?   

   

I’m hoping it’s pretty benign as far as red tape goes.  

   

Patrick #40715  

Do not archive  

       [quote][b]

cloudvalley(at)comcast.ne
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:41 am Post subject: New TSA Security Requirements

Hello Patrick.  

My wife and I operate out of Eugene Airport. We got new airport badges yesterday, and they put a "ghost" image of our picture up above it, claiming that it will make it more difficult to make up a fake id, as if that will help some perceived "enemy" enter the gate-since it is locked!! We  were also told, be aware that tsa will "show a higher presence" here. I told her that they are not coming in our hangar, and that they have no rights with general aviation. She said: Just to let you know , they will be around more! What a veiled threat! If someone doesn't stop them and their egregious power grabbing we will quit flying. It isn't enough to try to foist this set of ridiculous 12,500 lb set of outrageous rules on GA; now they are already targeting small aircraft. They better not approach me! Oh well.. Hope someone does something. I called AOPA and reported this. I can't believe this. I told the airport staff in the office that they are brownshirts who really want general aviation planes grounded if they had their way. 

Brian and Ruth 



---

bbreckenridge(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:51 am Post subject: New TSA Security Requirements

My wife is the ASN (Airport Support Network) representative for our home base, 7s9.  She has really taken this TSA thing to heart and attended in Burbank one of the only 5 or 6 hearings TSA put on to hear what GA pilots had to say.  She and 74 others had 3 minutes each to say their concerns.  Most conveyed facts, which is what they wanted to hear.  By the 27th of this month, they plan to hand down the next doling of regulations.  The "book" is 261 pages of rules and guidelines.

   

 Only 2 airports in Oregon will feel the change you mention, and both are part of the Portland system: Troutdale (KTTD) and Hillsboro (KHIO).

  

 Setting up increased securities in the airline industry was one thing.  Really irritating at times, but probably inevitable and necessary.  This long handed reach into the smaller towered airports is, I believe, a total waste of energy.  The small commercial operation affected will have to provide and pay for the TSA approved employees to check out each aircraft and person boarding.  I can see the closing of businesses due to the increased regulations and costs placed on them.  It looks like they've been given too much freedom to act in the name of "security".

 

 We sure hope it stops soon, yet all indications are that the "red tape" is going to get really deep....

  

 Bruce 

 40018

  

 

 

 On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 6:32 AM, Patrick ONeill <poneill(at)irealms.com (poneill(at)irealms.com)> wrote:

 [quote]   

At the end of this month the new TSA security requirements for pilots operating out of Part 139 airports take effect.  

  

Unfortunately for me, my primary airport is one of those affected by the new rules (KSNA).  I get to make the first of two trips this week to the airport's administrative office to apply for a TSA background check and access badge for continued ramp access.  

  

I know most of you operate out of smaller fields.  But I figured I'd see if any other list members have had the pleasure of this experience.  Anyone else been through it yet?   

  

I'm hoping it's pretty benign as far as red tape goes. 

  

Patrick #40715 

Do not archive

 	  Quote: 	
		  



get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

ttp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


[b]

bbreckenridge(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:54 am Post subject: New TSA Security Requirements

Wow!  Looks like the list my wife got at the meeting was a little misleading!!  Bummer about KEUG!  It would be great if EVERYONE failed to comply.  Might send a message, but at the expense of many who might pay a high price for standing firm.

 

 On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 7:40 AM, <cloudvalley(at)comcast.net (cloudvalley(at)comcast.net)> wrote:

 [quote]   

 Hello Patrick.  

My wife and I operate out of Eugene Airport. We got new airport badges yesterday, and they put a "ghost" image of our picture up above it, claiming that it will make it more difficult to make up a fake id, as if that will help some perceived "enemy" enter the gate-since it is locked!! We  were also told, be aware that tsa will "show a higher presence" here. I told her that they are not coming in our hangar, and that they have no rights with general aviation. She said: Just to let you know , they will be around more! What a veiled threat! If someone doesn't stop them and their egregious power grabbing we will quit flying. It isn't enough to try to foist this set of ridiculous 12,500 lb set of outrageous rules on GA; now they are already targeting small aircraft. They better not approach me! Oh well.. Hope someone does something. I called AOPA and reported this. I can't believe this. I told the airport staff in the office that they are brownshirts who really want general aviation planes grounded if they had their way.  

Brian and Ruth  



---

deej(at)deej.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:19 am Post subject: New TSA Security Requirements

bruce breckenridge wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   It would be great if EVERYONE failed to comply.  Might send a message,

 but at the expense of many who might pay a high price for standing firm.


	




    I'm convinced you are correct, and that is probably the only way to

convince the gov't to get rid of the menace that the TSA presents to the

US and our way of life.



-Dj

cloudvalley(at)comcast.ne
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:33 am Post subject: New TSA Security Requirements

WE will give up flying if we are harassed by them. I won't allow them to take away my rights!

---

cloudvalley(at)comcast.ne
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:33 am Post subject: New TSA Security Requirements

I disagree! 

 NOT necessary!

---

n212pj(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:24 am Post subject: New TSA Security Requirements

I learned to fly and was part of a flying club out of  BED (Hanscom Airfield near Boston), and one of my destinations was Westchester County (White Plains, NY) HPN.  Very high number of private jets,  etc, plus a military presence in the former, and an even greater number of jets,  etc into the latter.  So, needless to say, the security apparatus ratcheted  up significantly at both very soon after 911.  Double gates and all at  Hanscom, where the 182 was hangered.  You had to drive your car into a  holding area, wait for the gate behind you to close and then the one in front to  open.  Cameras were installed that  could be focused down each hanger row.  The local FBO/charter  company had to put in baggage screening equipment and procedures.  American  Eagle used to fly commercial out of there and had to put in a full system along  with security folks, who mainly just sat around.  Those of us with planes  on the field had to go for training in order to get our badges.  The  training was worthless, in my opinion.  Just designed to try to get you to  turn in anyone that you thought looked suspicious.  So, what does one  do with the training?  All become paranoid about everyone on the  airfield?  Be the civilian watch dogs  for the state?  If someone wanted to "take over" me and my 182 to  do bad things, wouldn't it be very simple to come to my house, "secure" me and  my badge and car in order to get through that joke of a gate to my hanger,  or anyone else's hanger?  This, to us at the field, was a system so easily  defeated that it was laughable, but in the meantime it meant the loss  of an intangible about flying that was dear to all those who sacrificed a  great deal to participate.     

  

 I don't know what  the answer is, but I personally jumped at the chance to obtain a hanger at a  small, open, old time airport when I arrived in Oregon.  My fear is that  soon, for any field with a 3k foot runway, we'll see the requirement for a razor  fence and double security gates.  There are decent sized biz jets with a  good deal of speed, range, load capacity and mass that can operate into and out  of a 3k strip, fully loaded.  Is this what they are concerned about?   What's the difference between a towered airport with a 5k strip and one without  a tower with a 3k strip?  They both offer opportunity, and I would think  the latter would offer more.  TSA has visited our little piece of flying  heaven, and they were told by its owner to basically to get the H off the  field.  

  

 At my airfield we watch out for each other, for  each other's safety and possessions.  We know who's who on the field and  introduce ourselves to those we may not recognize, only because it is a very  friendly and helpful community, not because we have been asked to be paranoid  watchdogs.  I remember being absolutely shocked when I first arrived  because folks would leave their hanger wide open when they left for a  flight.  I must admit I haven't gotten that comfortable yet, but what a  wonderful feeling to be able to trust and depend upon your neighbors and fellow  flying enthusiasts.    

  

 Where or when, in every part  of our extremely complex society, do we cross the line that means a significant  and enduring loss of freedom, our way of life that makes us so unique a  society?  And, yes, we can debate what "freedom" means,  pragmatically.  Certainly no one wants total anarchy.  Flying, the way  we define the activity, is so much a symbol of freedom.  We need more folks  watching the watch dogs.  We need folks, like Bruce's wife, to get  involved, or, by fiat, these freedoms we have will be curtailed.  Kurt  Vonnegut where are you?  

  

 John

   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bruce  breckenridge

Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 7:51 AM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: New TSA Security  Requirements

 

 My wife is the ASN (Airport Support Network) representative for our home  base, 7s9.  She has really taken this TSA thing to heart and attended in  Burbank one of the only 5 or 6 hearings TSA put on to hear what GA pilots  had to say.  She and 74 others had 3 minutes each to say their  concerns.  Most conveyed facts, which is what they wanted to hear.  By  the 27th of this month, they plan to hand down the next doling of  regulations.  The "book" is 261 pages of rules and guidelines.

  

 Only 2 airports in Oregon will feel the change you mention, and both are  part of the Portland system: Troutdale (KTTD) and Hillsboro (KHIO).

  

 Setting up increased securities in the airline industry was one  thing.  Really irritating at times, but probably inevitable and  necessary.  This long handed reach into the smaller towered airports is, I  believe, a total waste of energy.  The small commercial operation affected  will have to provide and pay for the TSA approved employees to check out each  aircraft and person boarding.  I can see the closing of businesses due to  the increased regulations and costs placed on them.  It looks like they've  been given too much freedom to act in the name of "security".



 We sure hope it stops soon, yet all indications are that the "red tape" is  going to get really deep....

  

 Bruce 

 40018

  

   [quote][b]

cloudvalley(at)comcast.ne
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:47 am Post subject: New TSA Security Requirements

Hello John! 

 Thank you for that! I love it! Get the H off our field! I would have loved to see that! Ha Ha HA... 

 We will look for a field like that also, or igve up flying before we allow any intrusion into our freedom  when it comes to flying. We wrote Phil Boyer before who agreed with me about the tsa. 

Brian Preston 

---

n212pj(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:04 am Post subject: New TSA Security Requirements

Hey, Brian.  How's the Cirrus running?  Hope you  can come up to Albany this Spring for the RV-10 gathering.  Once an  RV-10 builder, always an RV-10 builder!  

  

 John



   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of  cloudvalley(at)comcast.net

Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 9:47  AM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: New  TSA Security Requirements

 

  

Hello John! 

 Thank you for that! I love it! Get the H off our field! I would have  loved to see that! Ha Ha HA... 

 We will look for a field like that also, or igve up flying before we  allow any intrusion into our freedom  when it comes to flying. We wrote  Phil Boyer before who agreed with me about the tsa. 

Brian Preston 



   [quote][b]

chuck(at)chuckdirect.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:04 am Post subject: New TSA Security Requirements

And what about the 45,000+ Americans who die on our nations highways 

annually?  TSA money would be better spent giving those worthless TSA morons 

a radar gun and monitoring highway speeds.

Chuck



--------------------------------------------------

From: "Dj Merrill" <deej(at)deej.net>

Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 8:17 AM

To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: New TSA Security Requirements



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 bruce breckenridge wrote:

> It would be great if EVERYONE failed to comply.  Might send a message,

> but at the expense of many who might pay a high price for standing firm.

    I'm convinced you are correct, and that is probably the only way to

 convince the gov't to get rid of the menace that the TSA presents to the

 US and our way of life.



 -Dj

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2881

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:22 am Post subject: New TSA Security Requirements

Nah, speed isn't the killer, stupidity is.  I think the

TSA folk need to sit by the roadside with a "Stupid gun".

Except it would probably always go off, due to their

own proximity.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Chuck Weyant wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 And what about the 45,000+ Americans who die on our nations highways 

 annually?  TSA money would be better spent giving those worthless TSA 

 morons a radar gun and monitoring highway speeds.

 Chuck

deej(at)deej.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:04 pm Post subject: New TSA Security Requirements

cloudvalley(at)comcast.net wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 or give up flying before we allow any intrusion into our freedom  when

 it comes to flying.




	


    If you give up flying, then you have allowed them to intrude into

your freedoms...



-Dj

do not archive

bob.kaufmann(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:06 pm Post subject: New TSA Security Requirements

North Las Vegas is going the 139 Route as fast as Randy Walker can make it happen.



Bob K



--

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:13 pm Post subject: New TSA Security Requirements

Thanks for letting me know; I will cancel the trip to Circus Circus for the

kids. 



--

ScooterF15

Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 136

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:18 pm Post subject: New TSA Security Requirements

So what does this mean if you are a transient aircraft at KHIO? That's where I go when I'm in Portland.

  

 -Jim

 n312je

 On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 10:50 AM, bruce breckenridge <bbreckenridge(at)gmail.com (bbreckenridge(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 [quote] My wife is the ASN (Airport Support Network) representative for our home base, 7s9.  She has really taken this TSA thing to heart and attended in Burbank one of the only 5 or 6 hearings TSA put on to hear what GA pilots had to say.  She and 74 others had 3 minutes each to say their concerns.  Most conveyed facts, which is what they wanted to hear.  By the 27th of this month, they plan to hand down the next doling of regulations.  The "book" is 261 pages of rules and guidelines.

   

 Only 2 airports in Oregon will feel the change you mention, and both are part of the Portland system: Troutdale (KTTD) and Hillsboro (KHIO).

  

 Setting up increased securities in the airline industry was one thing.  Really irritating at times, but probably inevitable and necessary.  This long handed reach into the smaller towered airports is, I believe, a total waste of energy.  The small commercial operation affected will have to provide and pay for the TSA approved employees to check out each aircraft and person boarding.  I can see the closing of businesses due to the increased regulations and costs placed on them.  It looks like they've been given too much freedom to act in the name of "security".

 

 We sure hope it stops soon, yet all indications are that the "red tape" is going to get really deep....

  

 Bruce 

 40018

  

 

 

  On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 6:32 AM, Patrick ONeill <poneill(at)irealms.com (poneill(at)irealms.com)> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		      

At the end of this month the new TSA security requirements for pilots operating out of Part 139 airports take effect.  

  

Unfortunately for me, my primary airport is one of those affected by the new rules (KSNA).  I get to make the first of two trips this week to the airport's administrative office to apply for a TSA background check and access badge for continued ramp access.  

  

I know most of you operate out of smaller fields.  But I figured I'd see if any other list members have had the pleasure of this experience.  Anyone else been through it yet?   

  

I'm hoping it's pretty benign as far as red tape goes. 

  

Patrick #40715 

Do not archive



 	  Quote: 	
		  

get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

ttp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


	


  

 

 	  Quote: 	
		  



get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

a href="http://forums.matronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	




[b]

poneill(at)irealms.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:34 pm Post subject: New TSA Security Requirements

Here’s an excerpt from the FAQ sent out by a local flight school regarding the new rules at KSNA.  According to this, it only affects you if you are based at one of the affected airports, not if you fly to one.  

   

B Rules  

1. Individuals who have been issued badges will enter at one of the two standard  

gates, using the badge and a PIN of their own choosing. You are not required to  

display the badge, but you must have it available in the event someone official  

wants to see it.  

   

2. Our current hang tags will remain in use to indicate authorization to operate and  

park a vehicle on the ramp.  

   

3. There are no substantive changes for your passengers. Once you have been  

issued your badge, you may escort members of your party onto the ramp, where  

you will be responsible for their movements.  

   

4. When you travel to other Part 139 airports you will not be affected by these new  

rules: it is assumed that transient pilots will exit and enter the airport through  

FBOs that take responsibility for ramp access.  

   

Here’s a link to their full guide if you are curious:  

   

http://www.sunriseaviation.com/Security_Instructions.pdf  

   

   

Best Regards,  

Patrick #40715  

Do not archive        

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James McGrew

 Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 4:18 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: New TSA Security Requirements  

  

     

So what does this mean if you are a transient aircraft at KHIO? That's where I go when I'm in Portland.  

    

   

    

-Jim  

    

n312je  

    

On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 10:50 AM, bruce breckenridge <bbreckenridge(at)gmail.com (bbreckenridge(at)gmail.com)> wrote:    

My wife is the ASN (Airport Support Network) representative for our home base, 7s9.  She has really taken this TSA thing to heart and attended in Burbank one of the only 5 or 6 hearings TSA put on to hear what GA pilots had to say.  She and 74 others had 3 minutes each to say their concerns.  Most conveyed facts, which is what they wanted to hear.  By the 27th of this month, they plan to hand down the next doling of regulations.  The "book" is 261 pages of rules and guidelines.  

    

   

    

Only 2 airports in Oregon will feel the change you mention, and both are part of the Portland system: Troutdale (KTTD) and Hillsboro (KHIO).  

    

   

    

Setting up increased securities in the airline industry was one thing.  Really irritating at times, but probably inevitable and necessary.  This long handed reach into the smaller towered airports is, I believe, a total waste of energy.  The small commercial operation affected will have to provide and pay for the TSA approved employees to check out each aircraft and person boarding.  I can see the closing of businesses due to the increased regulations and costs placed on them.  It looks like they've been given too much freedom to act in the name of "security".  

    

We sure hope it stops soon, yet all indications are that the "red tape" is going to get really deep....  

    

   

    

Bruce   

    

40018  

    

   

    



    

      

On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 6:32 AM, Patrick ONeill <poneill(at)irealms.com (poneill(at)irealms.com)> wrote:  

   	  Quote: 	
		          

At the end of this month the new TSA security requirements for pilots operating out of Part 139 airports take effect.  

   

Unfortunately for me, my primary airport is one of those affected by the new rules (KSNA).  I get to make the first of two trips this week to the airport's administrative office to apply for a TSA background check and access badge for continued ramp access.  

   

I know most of you operate out of smaller fields.  But I figured I'd see if any other list members have had the pleasure of this experience.  Anyone else been through it yet?   

   

I'm hoping it's pretty benign as far as red tape goes.  

   

Patrick #40715  

Do not archive  

  

   	  Quote: 	
		     get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List 	


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n212pj(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:38 pm Post subject: New TSA Security Requirements

At KBED, you just arranged to get in and out of the fence  through an FBO.  I'm guessing that would hold for HIO.  Two flying  RV-10's there.  You could always hook up with them for the  procedures.  Any reason for HIO?  Nicer places to land, cheaper  fuel.  

  

 John



   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James  McGrew

Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 4:18 PM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: New TSA Security  Requirements

 

 So what does this mean if you are a transient aircraft at KHIO? That's  where I go when I'm in Portland.

  

 -Jim

 n312je

  

   [quote][b]

bob.kaufmann(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:47 pm Post subject: New TSA Security Requirements

Hasn't happened yet Dave but he wants it.



Bob K



--

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:17 pm Post subject: New TSA Security Requirements

There also is Henderson as an alternative.



On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 5:46 PM, Bob Kaufmann <bob.kaufmann(at)cox.net> wrote:

[quote] 



 Hasn't happened yet Dave but he wants it.



 Bob K



 --

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

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