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Master Solenoid Hot to Touch

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Ken Potter

Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 85
Location: Lanark, Ontario

Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 2:49 pm Post subject: Master Solenoid Hot to Touch

Hi Folks;

In preparation to take C-FJKP out of the shop and final inspection this spring I've been running the electrical system whenever I'm in the shop working--- master switch on, radio, transponder etc. running.  Last weekend when I went to do an inspection before shutting down I noticed that the master solenoid was very hot to the touch.  Is this normal????

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_________________
Ken Potter
Model II, No. 483
Rotax 582, C-Box,
99% Complete
C-FJKP
Lanark, Ontario

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:47 pm Post subject: Re: Master Solenoid Hot to Touch

 	  Ken Potter wrote: 	
		  Hi Folks;

In preparation to take C-FJKP out of the shop and final inspection this spring I've been running the electrical system whenever I'm in the shop working--- master switch on, radio, transponder etc. running.  Last weekend when I went to do an inspection before shutting down I noticed that the master solenoid was very hot to the touch.  Is this normal???? 	




Yes, it's normal for the master contactor to get hot.  Mine gets quite hot to the touch.  Just be sure it is a continuous duty type.  There is an easy way to tell but I can't seem to remember it.  Someone will chime in, if not I probably have it in my building log notes somewhere.

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Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

FlyboyTR

Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Mobile, Alabama

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 4:36 am Post subject: Re: Master Solenoid Hot to Touch

Warm to the touch is ok.  Very hot...would be a concern.  If you are using an automotive solenoid (like for a starter) I wouldn’t think this would be the best choice.  They are designed for intermittent use.  As Tom stated…it must be for continuous use!  Most RV (camping) places sell a continuous duty solenoid for about $30-$35.  We had one go bad in our bus.  I did the $12 (Ford style) solenoid from Auto Zone.  It worked for a couple of hours…then things started melting. TOO hot!  Replace it with a continuous use model from the RV store…and all is well.  It does get warm…but not hot.



Travis

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Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
www.enotam.net (My Flying Info Website)

Ken Potter

Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 85
Location: Lanark, Ontario

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 9:08 am Post subject: Re: Master Solenoid Hot to Touch

Thanks for the input.

I'll have to go back through my receipts but I'm sure that the solenoid came from Aircraft Spruce as a continuous duty model.  

Cheers



Ken

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Ken Potter
Model II, No. 483
Rotax 582, C-Box,
99% Complete
C-FJKP
Lanark, Ontario

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:41 am Post subject: Master Solenoid Hot to Touch

In a word No.  You have a starter solenoid rather than a power relay.  Get a

12V relay ( they look the same) from and RV outlet.  They use then for back

up batteries.



Noel



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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:19 pm Post subject: Re: Master Solenoid Hot to Touch

 	  Ken Potter wrote: 	
		  Hi Folks;

In preparation to take C-FJKP out of the shop and final inspection this spring I've been running the electrical system whenever I'm in the shop working--- master switch on, radio, transponder etc. running.  Last weekend when I went to do an inspection before shutting down I noticed that the master solenoid was very hot to the touch.  Is this normal???? 	




Yes, Ken.  When on for an extended length of time they can get pretty hot which is why they should be mounted in an area that receives adequate ventilation.  Shouldn't be anything to worry about.  Even a 60 watt lightbulb will get hot after awhile.

Deke Morisse

S5

NE Michigan

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Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:22 pm Post subject: Master Solenoid Hot to Touch

The relay coil shouldn't draw more than a half an amp...600 mW.  They can

get warm but if they are coming anywhere close to hot then the internal

resistance isn't high enough or you have a starter solenoid.  Power relays

generally after several hours of being pulled closed will only be slightly

warm to the touch.  Never hot.



Noel



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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 3:55 am Post subject: Master Solenoid Hot to Touch

With all due respect, Noel, not true.  The standard continuous duty 

contactor that we use in our airplanes pulls nearly an amp and can put out 

enough heat to get quite hot, much more than "warm".   Mine sure does and 

it's still working after 8 years.

Below is a quote from the Aeoelectric List on Matronics.  The reply is from 

Bob Nuckols of the Aeroelectric Connection.

 	  Quote: 	
		  Hi Bob,



My principal concern has to do with the considerable heat generated

in the battery master contactor...

just wondering if there was a reasonable alternative.


	


   How is this heat a problem? The battery contactor generally draws

   about .8A after it warms up for a total power dissipation of about

   12 watts. While this amount of power produces a marked temperature

   rise, it's well inside ratings for the materials used in fabrication

   of the contactor.



   When I was selling these things, I had a couple of builders want

   to return "defective" contactors because they were overheating. I

   had to explain that virtually all contactors of any size (50A class

   or larger) ran too hot to touch under normal conditions. This

   isn't a big deal when the alternator is running . . . you generally

   have the watts to spare. However, during alternator-out, battery-only

   ops, this .8A would run a couple of radios! It's a good load to get

   rid of. This was one of the drivers for the alternate feedpath

   to the e-bus that you see in our Z-drawings.



   So, if you configure the system to limit power losses due to battery

   contactor heating to times when you have the power to spare, the

   lowly contactor will offer you a good return on investment.



   Bob . . .

Deke Morisse

Mikado Michigan

S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT

"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."

- Joseph Joubert

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Ken Potter

Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 85
Location: Lanark, Ontario

Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:47 pm Post subject: Re: Master Solenoid Hot to Touch

Hi Folks;



Thanks to everyone for the advice.  I checked my receipt and the unit.  It is the continuous duty 14 - 28 volt unit sold by Aircraft Spruce.  I'm running it in a 14 volt system so it would draw a few more amps and be hotter than if it was running at 28 volts. According to the aircrafts amp-meter it is drawing about 1 amp.   I will however check that their isn't any extra resistance in the connections, especially to ground. 



It is hot enough that I can only keep my fingers on it for 4-5 seconds when it has been on in the shop for 2 hours at 14.6 volts.   This is why I've been running up all of the systems in the shop to; check for squawks before first flight later this summer.

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_________________
Ken Potter
Model II, No. 483
Rotax 582, C-Box,
99% Complete
C-FJKP
Lanark, Ontario

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