Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Jabiru Cowls

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Europa-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

TELEDYNMCS(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:34 am Post subject: Jabiru Cowls

Hey Guys,

  

 Back in January I spoke with Jim McCormick of Jabiru Pacific regarding some  rubber goods for my 3300. Off hand he mentioned that he has access to the molds  Andy Silvester used to have the Jabiru/Europa cowls made that I purchased from  Andy back in 2005. IIRC, the guy who has the mold and made the cowls is a boat  builder in Canada. I met him briefly when I picked up my engine from  Andy, but I don't recall his name.

  

 Anyway, Jim told me that if there was enough interest he would consider  offering cowls and a FWF kit for the Europa. I sent him a disk with info  regarding my FWF and told him I thought there would probably be significant  interest if someone were to offer a Jabiru FWF for the Europa. 

  

 FWIW, I'm very pleased with my cowls. I have had to make a few minor  modifications to the lower cowl to get the engine to run cool in climb, but  otherwise I'm very pleased with the cowl set. The quality is excellent and I  really like the looks of the longer cowling. Incidentally, my Europa has  been mistakenly identified as a Lancair on several occasions now by other pilots  at various places I've visited.

  

 Regards,

  

 John  Lawton

Whitwell, TN (TN89)

N245E -  Flying

 Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the Radio Toolbar!

  [quote][b]

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:23 pm Post subject: Jabiru Cowls

TELEDYNMCS(at)aol.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Incidentally, my Europa has been mistakenly identified as a Lancair on 

 several occasions now by other pilots at various places I've visited.

  

 Regards,

  

 John Lawton

 Whitwell, TN (TN89)

 N245E -

Almost an insult that, John? Lancair might look pretty but it doesn't 
	


fly pretty imho. Neibaur neglected to employ an aerodynamicist. Ivan had 

Don Dykins who is a genius. (imho)

Graham

Clive J

Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 340
Location: UK

Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:51 pm Post subject: Jabiru Cowls

RE: the enquiry about 3300 cowls.



I have a 3300 on an Esqual and managed to fit the Rotax cowls however it

is very tight as Bob found out many years ago. You are welcome to these

if you want to make me an offer. 

However my suggestion would be to get in touch with Arion who market the

Lightning. 

They created the Lightning from the Esqual and have developed an

excellent set of cowls which give plenty of room for the 3300. They are

that good that I have a set on order for my Esqual.



I suggest to get a pair of these, they are $430 for the cowls and I'd

recommend their cooling ducts which are broader and do a better cooling

job than the Jab ones. Ducts are $310 a pair.

The Lightning http://www.flylightning.net/ can be found there, you'll

see the cowl has the chubby look not unlike the Europa (sorry

guys....

They will need a slight mod I'm sure, to fit the Esqual they need the

bottom cowl tapering in though the Europa looks deeper. With Fibre glass

anything is possible of course.



Regards, Clive

fklein(at)orcasonline.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:28 am Post subject: Jabiru Cowls

On Apr 16, 2009, at 2:21 PM, Graham Singleton wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Almost an insult that, John? Lancair might look pretty but it doesn't fly pretty imho. Neibaur neglected to employ an aerodynamicist. Ivan had Don Dykins who is a genius. (imho)

	




Graham,

I too had considered buying a Lancair kit, going so far as to visit their factory and have a contract prepared, and I've got to admit that there was a time back in 2004 when I questioned my decision to pop for the Europa.

Though I can't pretend to understand fully what Don wrote in his books about the design of the Europa and don't question his genius, I've often wondered about his choice of wing tip; Hoerner and VanGrunsven clearly believe that in the speed range of the Europa, some special attention is warranted.

Your thoughts?

Fred

A194



--  This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.   [quote][b]

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:53 am Post subject: Jabiru Cowls

Fred Klein wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Though I can't pretend to understand fully what Don wrote in his books 

 about the design of the Europa and don't question his genius, I've 

 often wondered about his choice of wing tip; Hoerner 

 and VanGrunsven clearly believe that in the speed range of the Europa, 

 some special attention is warranted.



 Your thoughts?



 Fred

 A194

Fred
	


I used to try and get Don (and Ivan) to explore wing tip design but he 

never would, he felt that in the cruise the induced drag was so low 

(because of the wing area) that it wasn't worth the troublel; probably 

true for the cruise but not true for climb. I always liked the wing on 

the Dornier 228 (number?) It reminded me of the top glider wings with 

increasing sweep on the leading edge.

I don't like straight lines and square wings, don't see many birds like 

that do you?

Graham

frans(at)paardnatuurlijk.
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:35 am Post subject: Jabiru Cowls

Graham Singleton wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I used to try and get Don (and Ivan) to explore wing tip design but he

 never would, he felt that in the cruise the induced drag was so low

 (because of the wing area) that it wasn't worth the troublel; probably

 true for the cruise but not true for climb.


	


I recall having read somewhere that for the speeds reached by

GA-aircraft, any improvements by winglets etc. is countered by the

additional drag (frontal area, friction drag). If you see winglets, it

is usually the result of fashion, not science.



-- 

Frans Veldman

fklein(at)orcasonline.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:44 am Post subject: Jabiru Cowls

On Apr 17, 2009, at 9:52 AM, Graham Singleton wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I always liked the wing on the Dornier 228 (number?) It reminded me  

 of the top glider wings with increasing sweep on the leading edge.


	


Graham...ah yes, the raked tips...something akin to those on the  

Lancair Legacy??



(sorry, jus couldn't resist...)



Cheers,



Fred

-- 

This message has been scanned for viruses and

dangerous content by MailScanner, and is

believed to be clean.

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:43 pm Post subject: Jabiru Cowls

Frans Veldman wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I recall having read somewhere that for the speeds reached by

 GA-aircraft, any improvements by winglets etc. is countered by the

 additional drag (frontal area, friction drag). If you see winglets, it

 is usually the result of fashion, not science.



   

But don't try and fly an EZ without it's winglets! Not possible. It all 
	


depends how much washout the designer put in and the wing area. Exceed 

Vne in a sailplane and the wings bend down.

Winglets can certainly be fashionable but square wings are just a poorly 

optimised compromise. There are no straight lines on a bird and some of 

them are optimised for incredible feats of efficiency.

Graham

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:47 pm Post subject: Jabiru Cowls

Fred Klein wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I always liked the wing on the Dornier 228 (number?) It reminded me of 

 the top glider wings with increasing sweep on the leading edge.



 Graham...ah yes, the raked tips...something akin to those on the 

 Lancair Legacy??



 (sorry, jus couldn't resist...)



 Cheers,



 Fred



I think the Legacy was designed by Martin Holman wasn't it? not Lance 
	


Neubaur. (can't remember how he spells his name)

Graham

fklein(at)orcasonline.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:17 pm Post subject: Jabiru Cowls

I don't know Graham...I do know that Lance was an artist/illustrator  

with no formal training in aerodynamics when he started his  

company...not at all certain of the extent or quality of engineering  

help upon which he was relying.



And Bud...I very much appreciate your weighing in with your solid  

background and knowledge.



See ya next week!



Fred



On Apr 17, 2009, at 5:43 PM, Graham Singleton wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 >



 Fred Klein wrote:

> I always liked the wing on the Dornier 228 (number?) It reminded me  

> of the top glider wings with increasing sweep on the leading edge.

>

> Graham...ah yes, the raked tips...something akin to those on the  

> Lancair Legacy??

>

> (sorry, jus couldn't resist...)

>

> Cheers,

>

> Fred

>

 I think the Legacy was designed by Martin Holman wasn't it? not  

 Lance Neubaur. (can't remember how he spells his name)

 Graham 






	




-- 

This message has been scanned for viruses and

dangerous content by MailScanner, and is

believed to be clean.

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Europa-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum