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JohnDRead(at)aol.com
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 Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:12 am Post subject: Report no. 2 from Sun n Fun - The Heintz clan reactions ... |
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Well said Gig. do not archive
John Read
CH701 - Elbert CO - Jabiru 3300
Phone: 303-648-3261
Fax: 303-648-3262
Cell: 719-494-4567
In a message dated 4/23/2009 9:52:15 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, wrgiacona(at)gmail.com writes:
| Quote: | --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wrgiacona(at)gmail.com>
Paul,
When I first read your diatribe yesterday morning I decided to really think about your post before I replied. I’m glad I did, because most of what I would have said was said by others. But mainly because your responses to those posts, along with the original post, show that you are at least somewhat skewed in your thinking. Let’s face it there are a lot of folks that would brag about their ability to kill people with their bare hands in a forum such as this especially when discussing a topic such as this. And since you admitted to being “…very emotional in my dealings with the Heintz brothers, Sebastian and especially Matthew.†I’m surprised they spent any time talking to you at all. I know I wouldn’t have in their position.
You have made the decision to ground your airplane and that is your right. If you aren’t comfortable flying it then you most certainly shouldn’t. But your overwhelming belief that the NTSB is right and anything they say should be followed without question shows that you know very little about the way government works in general and the way aviation rules in particular are made. As has already been made clear the NTSB isn’t the final say in matters such as this and they were never designed to be. And that is a good thing. It is called checks and balances and you will see it throughout our government.
In one of your posts today you again show that you don’t understand how the NTSB process works. You seem to think there is some wall of separation between the board members and the investigators. There isn’t. The board members make their decisions based on the reports of the NTSB investigators as well as outside data that is available. In this case it seems they are completely ignoring their investigators and relying heavily on outside data. I say this because the only mention in any NTSB investigative report concerning flutter is in that there is no direct evidence that it took place in the accident aircraft. I’m not saying that flutter did not happen. I am saying that I don’t know and neither does the NTSB.
The NTSB reports quotes several 601XL pilots that experienced what they described as flutter. In all cases cited cables were not tensioned properly. The only place where the NTSB letter says an accident 601XL “may†have experienced flutter with properly tensioned cables is the Antelope Island accident in March of this year. The builder, who was not flying the plane, states the aileron tension was checked before first flight and again 6 flight hours before the accident. I have two problems with this. First and foremost I am shocked that the board is taking action based on an accident where the investigation is anywhere close to finished. Second, and I’m not making any statement about this individual builder, but for him to say anything other than the cables were tensioned properly would be was is known as “A Statement Against Interest.†And this would all be fine but the NTSB letter seems to be using it as the basis for their position that proper aileron tension is not enough to provide protection from flutter.
Another place where the NTSB report seems out of phase with the real world is the first page where they mention in the footnote #2 that there are planes with both hingeless and hinged ailerons. But, in the body they are saying that all the planes are “…is essentially the same.†This statement is absurd. To ignore the fact that not a single hingeless aircraft has been involved in one of the accidents makes me question the NTSB’s decision process and motives. It also removes what might well be the easiest and most practical fix for the problem, i.e. Replace the hinged ailerons with the hingeless design.
Let’s all remember how the hinged option came about in the first place. Many people thought the hingeless design was weird or didn’t trust it despite the testing that is shown on the Zenith website. So Zenith caved and presented builders with a hinged option. Time may prove that this was a fatal mistake on Zenith’s part. Think about this. The hingeless ailerons are “stiffer†than the hinged variety. If a cable is loose allowing flutter to develop it is only logical to conclude that the stiffer aileron is going to less susceptible to it and even if it does develop easier to get under control. Anecdotal (hey if it is good enough for the NTSB…) reports bare this out because there are reports of loose cables on hingeless models developing early stage flutter that was controlled by pilot action.
The other issue that the NTSB seems to have an issue with the gradient of force on the elevator. This has really never been much of an issue though Zenith did provide the elevator stop modification to reduce over control. I can’t speak much on this because I have yet to be able to fly the 601XL in the parts of the envelope where it might be an issue. But it is my view that this is a training issue. There is precedent for the NTSB and the FAA to deal with this issue via training. For more information on that I’d suggest you Google SFAR 74.
Finally, I’d like to point out that at one time the issue of the design strength in general was questions. The only issue that the NTSB seemed to have was with the Ultimate Design Load and that it may fall short of +6Gs but only slightly. Easy fix, get out your plans if you are building or your log and POA if you are flying. Take a pen and mark out “+6Gs†and write in “+5Gsâ€.
The following is for the builders only. Those of you that seem to have lost all faith in the design, designer and the company that sold you the plans; I see no option for you other than give up on the plane. There are those of you that will never be happy and life is to short to spend time building a plane you are not happy with. You will be out some money but stuff happens. And since lawsuits have been mentioned both here and in other places I’d suggest you go back and read the “CONDITIONS OF SALE AND WARNING NOTICE†that not only you but also your spouse or next of kin signed when you bought your plans or kit. Here’s a link: http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/data/601-price-orderform.pdf
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W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240913#240913===============================================
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tonyplane(at)bellsouth.ne
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:22 pm Post subject: Report no. 2 from Sun n Fun - The Heintz clan reactions ... |
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Ditto
Tony Graziano
XL/Jab3300
Do Not Archive
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