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tc1917(at)bellsouth.net
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 Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:25 am Post subject: bad blades |
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I wasnt going to answer this on line but because I was scolded on line, I
will. The fact is I have talked to Daryl many times in the past about these
blades and I finally got to send them back to him for checking. They were
all different weights, lengths and not at all matched. There was also cloth
like bumps on them. The receipt I got back with the blades said he replaced
a blade and balanced them. When I got them back all I saw that was done was
new paint, and they filed or cut them off to match for length to match the
smaller blade tip (not quit as small as the smallest one) and claim to have
balanced them. I was told the balance is at the hub and not at the tip.
What? I super balanced them on my blade balancing units and said to hell
with it. If I cannot PROVE my case nothing is going to be done about it. I
set about trying to solve this mystery for the last year or so. The new
blades I tried this weekend were absolutely quieter and smoother (albeit
shorter) (even after I pitched them to 14 degrees) than my present blades.
I still had some of the sound I am chasing so I still dont have the absolute
answer. I am still way noisier than it should be. I asked Ronnie Smith to
check this problem the very first week I installed the engine. I offered to
pay him. He had me try several things as move my exhaust pipes to the top
instead of the right side, balance my carbs,(I have done that at least four
times) and put my 4" spacer on and resisted any other help. Sooooo, all
that I have left is to go outside the realm and find the answer. It may be
that several things cause this (including the blades) so I am still looking.
I dont think Daryl is going to volunteer new blades as he would have done
that in the first place and not send me these chunks of plastic back the way
they did. (as he told me, he had NEVER heard of such a thing and NEVER had
that problem before, yeah, right) I have slipped through the cracks and it
is my option to not be happy about it. I am not a celebrity so I dont get
the attention that some people get. I WILL call him today and see what he
says but I had to wait till sun un fun was over. Now. I know some of you
wonderful people on this list are going to be angry at me and trash me but
that is what the deal is. I did not get the attention to this stuff before
and I dont believe I will get much now unless I can PROVE it. The only way
to PROVE it is to have a new set of 70 inch blades -- good ones, and try
them. Maybe, just maybe they will be quiet enough to help isolate the other
sound and get the job done. Other than that I have a very, very, very
expensive engine and blade unit that can drive a bear out of hibernation.
My case. Like it or not. Ted Cowan, Alabama, Slingshot, 912 UL.
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slyck(at)frontiernet.net
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:58 am Post subject: bad blades |
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Ted, I'm inclined to believe you. Unless you bought those blades at
a flea market they should have been identical
from the beginning. -In appearance, weight and shape.
If you feel you have a valid complaint I'd keep that wheel a-squeakin
until you get some satisfaction.
BB
On 28, Apr 2009, at 6:23 AM, Ted Cowan wrote:
| Quote: |
I wasnt going to answer this on line but because I was scolded on
line, I will. The fact is I have talked to Daryl many times in the
past about these blades and I finally got to send them back to him
for checking. They were all different weights, lengths and not at
all matched. There was also cloth like bumps on them. The receipt
I got back with the blades said he replaced a blade and balanced
them. When I got them back all I saw that was done was new paint,
and they filed or cut them off to match for length to match the
smaller blade tip (not quit as small as the smallest one) and claim
to have balanced them. I was told the balance is at the hub and
not at the tip. What? I super balanced them on my blade balancing
units and said to hell with it. If I cannot PROVE my case nothing
is going to be done about it. I set about trying to solve this
mystery for the last year or so. The new blades I tried this
weekend were absolutely quieter and smoother (albeit shorter) (even
after I pitched them to 14 degrees) than my present blades. I still
had some of the sound I am chasing so I still dont have the
absolute answer. I am still way noisier than it should be. I
asked Ronnie Smith to check this problem the very first week I
installed the engine. I offered to pay him. He had me try several
things as move my exhaust pipes to the top instead of the right
side, balance my carbs,(I have done that at least four times) and
put my 4" spacer on and resisted any other help. Sooooo, all that
I have left is to go outside the realm and find the answer. It may
be that several things cause this (including the blades) so I am
still looking. I dont think Daryl is going to volunteer new blades
as he would have done that in the first place and not send me these
chunks of plastic back the way they did. (as he told me, he had
NEVER heard of such a thing and NEVER had that problem before,
yeah, right) I have slipped through the cracks and it is my option
to not be happy about it. I am not a celebrity so I dont get the
attention that some people get. I WILL call him today and see what
he says but I had to wait till sun un fun was over. Now. I know
some of you wonderful people on this list are going to be angry at
me and trash me but that is what the deal is. I did not get the
attention to this stuff before and I dont believe I will get much
now unless I can PROVE it. The only way to PROVE it is to have a
new set of 70 inch blades -- good ones, and try them. Maybe, just
maybe they will be quiet enough to help isolate the other sound and
get the job done. Other than that I have a very, very, very
expensive engine and blade unit that can drive a bear out of
hibernation. My case. Like it or not. Ted Cowan, Alabama,
Slingshot, 912 UL.
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lucien
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 5:23 am Post subject: Re: bad blades |
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| slyck(at)frontiernet.net wrote: | Ted, I'm inclined to believe you. Unless you bought those blades at
a flea market they should have been identical
from the beginning. -In appearance, weight and shape.
If you feel you have a valid complaint I'd keep that wheel a-squeakin
until you get some satisfaction.
BB
On 28, Apr 2009, at 6:23 AM, Ted Cowan wrote:
|
While I havn't had the QC problems you've had, I'm going to be calling Daryl today too to inquire about another solution.
I keep trying to not mind my vibration and I juuuuust can't be at ease with it. Another hour yesterday evening in the plane and I just couldn't relax.
So don't keep him on the phone too long  .
I'm going to see about a 2-blade option. I don't know if the 912uls can be held back with only 2 70" or less WD blades, but I'm going to see what Daryl says about it. I'm doubltful a change in diameter will fix my situation as another owner of my plane type has reported the same problem with his 64". So I think a major change in config will be needed.
I'm certain in my case it's not a QC problem with the prop and I've never heard of even a cosmetic problem with a WD prop. A hint of weave here and there, yeah, but that's not what I'd consider a problem.
Hopefully my powerfin will be here in a couple weeks. I'll see how that goes...
LS
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_________________
LS
Titan II SS |
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herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 5:55 am Post subject: bad blades |
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Just a thought or two.... ,,,Ted...have you had anyone else sit in
the plane with the engine in the correct rpm range...? If the
engine/prop combo does not exhibit the problem on the ground...then
it might be airframe /engine/prop related...?? Can others hear
it? Could be some aspect of your hearing ? Women are best at
this "noise " game...
How about stuffing some foam into the boom tube ? It has a resonant
frequency and could amplify sounds...
Lastly...buy or borrow one of the voice recorders or make a video
and upload it to you tube for all to hear... Herb
At 08:23 AM 4/28/2009, you wrote:
| Quote: |
slyck(at)frontiernet.net wrote:
> Ted, I'm inclined to believe you. Unless you bought those blades at
> a flea market they should have been identical
> from the beginning. -In appearance, weight and shape.
> If you feel you have a valid complaint I'd keep that wheel a-squeakin
> until you get some satisfaction.
> BB
>
> On 28, Apr 2009, at 6:23 AM, Ted Cowan wrote:
>
>
While I havn't had the QC problems you've had, I'm going to be
calling Daryl today too to inquire about another solution.
I keep trying to not mind my vibration and I juuuuust can't be at
ease with it. Another hour yesterday evening in the plane and I just
couldn't relax.
So don't keep him on the phone too long .
I'm going to see about a 2-blade option. I don't know if the 912uls
can be held back with only 2 70" or less WD blades, but I'm going to
see what Daryl says about it. I'm doubltful a change in diameter
will fix my situation as another owner of my plane type has reported
the same problem with his 64". So I think a major change in config
will be needed.
I'm certain in my case it's not a QC problem with the prop and I've
never heard of even a cosmetic problem with a WD prop. A hint of
weave here and there, yeah, but that's not what I'd consider a problem.
Hopefully my powerfin will be here in a couple weeks. I'll see how
that goes...
LS
--------
LS
Titan II SS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 41624#241624
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
04/28/09 06:15:00
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HShack(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:26 am Post subject: bad blades |
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Ted, I think Mike's Kiev prop MUST have the 912 Bolt pattern. If you could get it at a decent price, it could fix your problem. If not it should be no trouble selling it.
It may LOOK weak & fragile to Mike, but I don't agree. We may not be sending test instruments thru ours, but they have held up well to rocks, baseball caps, etc.
Also, Mike seems more concerned about his spacer than the prop; I don't think his spacer is from Kiev.
C'mon Mike; how much for that piece of crap Kiev?
Howard Shackleford
FS II
SC
In a message dated 4/28/2009 6:25:44 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, tc1917(at)bellsouth.net writes:
| Quote: | Other than that I have a very, very, very
expensive engine and blade unit that can drive a bear out of hibernation.
My case. Like it or not. Ted Cowan, Alabama, Slingshot, 912 UL.
|
Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the Radio Toolbar!
[quote][b]
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lucien
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:44 am Post subject: Re: bad blades |
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Oh wait... if the extension is included, I'm interested......
LS
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LS
Titan II SS |
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JetPilot
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:51 pm Post subject: Re: bad blades |
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I think Ted has a right to be upset, If I had bought a prop and found the balance and other problems he describes I would be upset also. Given the problems Ted describes with his prop, it would be at the top of my list as to what would be causing his noise.
As far as the Kiev Prop, it is a beautiful prop. Mine is black with a very shiny smooth finish, with modern looking curved blades and metal leading edges, to look at this prop is a work of art. This prop would be perfect for a tractor or even a lower power two stroke engine. The spacer looks good, I bought it from Kolb, its just two darn small for a 912-S in my opinion. No matter who makes the spacer, the result will be the same, it will have to narrow down to fit the Kiev's smaller bolt pattern. I paid a lot for this prop new, if Ted wants to buy it, I will sell it, he knows why I switched to a warp drive and my concern of the possibility of something going through the prop on a pusher engine. Its been so long since I have had that prop on my plane, I don't remember if it made a big difference in the noise or not. Same for the performance, its been so long, and I was changing so much on the airplane at the time, I never got a good comparison. My MK III Xtra flew great with both props... My choice to change prop types was based purely on the Superior strength of the Warp Drive prop.
Mike
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"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S |
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