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Windshield care

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TELEDYNMCS(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:55 am Post subject: Windshield care

In a message dated 4/30/2009 3:03:16 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  europa-list(at)matronics.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  A key    notion, not mentioned previously is that when cleaning the plexi,

first use    copious water spray, then wipe with cotton with only  LINEAR

strokes. 	
  

 Hi Ira, 

  

 Read my post regarding how we clean canopies from last week and you'll  see that I recommended exactly what you say here regarding cotton cloths, water  and linear strokes on plexi. In certain situations you can use denatured alcohol  to get rid of really bad gunk on plexi, but use it sparingly.  As I  mentioned last week, we use Egyptian terrycloth hand towels for wiping plexi  clean with water and only water. I prefer a soaked towel, followed by a dry  towel, as opposed to using a spray bottle and a dry towel. I suppose which  method you use depends on whether or not you have running water at the  hangar.

  

 A word of caution regarding the use of Pledge, certain waxes and other  similar products. It would probably be a good idea to test any  product, Pledge, wax, etc, you want to try on your windshield on a  scrap piece of plexi first. I've heard several tales of canopies becoming  frosted after they reacted badly with something in certain furniture  polishes like Pledge. There's no coming back once your glass is  frosted.  There's really no need to take a chance on furniture  polishing products frosting your glass. Buffing plexi is really easy and if  you learn to do it you can keep your glass looking brand new for years.

  

 FWIW, We've used the micromesh before. It doesn't seem to work any better  than 1500 and 2000 Klingspor sand paper, followed by a good  buffing, but it does cost more.

 

Regards,

  

 John  Lawton

Whitwell, TN (TN89)

N245E - Flying on the rare occasion the weather  is decent.

 Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the Radio Toolbar!

  [quote][b]

gregoryf.flyboy(at)comcas
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:48 am Post subject: Windshield care

John-  

   

This is not meant to be snippy,  it is just meant to point out the obvious.  

13 years of applying pledge on a Europa with no problems, and many many motorcylists using pledge doesn’t amount to dirt.  

I don’t know what other proof is needed, maybe after 100 years of applications, with no problems?  

I hate to back up just one product, but I think it is necessary to specialize, in order to keep our canopies safe. There might be other furniture polishes that do cause a problem, for sure, but  

a lot of good information about 1 product means more to me than no bad information.  

Forgive me for saying this, but “certain polishes like Pledge” doesn’t negatively support pledge, in my book. I will personally not hesitate to use  

It, until there is significant proof against the actual product, (ie. a few people saying “I knew of a guy who actually used pledge, that developed fog on the windshield after 14 years of useage, etc).   

   

I just want to get to the bottom of the truth here, but any negative factual evidence will have to point to 1 specific product to be of worth, in my book.  

   

Thanks for those with the info on the linear wiping patterns to use on the plex, and also for the info on the Micromesh. Now that sounds like a statement taken from experience to me.  Its that type of information that could be deemed useful, IM(very)HO.  

   

That said, of course you are most correct: it is ALWAYS  good to be careful, and apply inconspicuously first, (lots of) good evidence or not. I suppose that includes the water that we wash with.  

   

Regards,  

Greg  

   

   

   

   

    

   

    

In a message dated 4/30/2009 3:03:16 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, europa-list(at)matronics.com writes:  

   	  Quote: 	
		    

A key notion, not mentioned previously is that when cleaning the plexi,

 first use copious water spray, then wipe with cotton with only LINEAR

 strokes.  	
    

   

    

Hi Ira,   

    

   

    

Read my post regarding how we clean canopies from last week and you'll see that I recommended exactly what you say here regarding cotton cloths, water and linear strokes on plexi. In certain situations you can use denatured alcohol to get rid of really bad gunk on plexi, but use it sparingly.  As I mentioned last week, we use Egyptian terrycloth hand towels for wiping plexi clean with water and only water. I prefer a soaked towel, followed by a dry towel, as opposed to using a spray bottle and a dry towel. I suppose which method you use depends on whether or not you have running water at the hangar.  

    

   

    

A word of caution regarding the use of Pledge, certain waxes and other similar products. It would probably be a good idea to test any product, Pledge, wax, etc, you want to try on your windshield on a scrap piece of plexi first. I've heard several tales of canopies becoming frosted after they reacted badly with something in certain furniture polishes like Pledge. There's no coming back once your glass is frosted.  There's really no need to take a chance on furniture polishing products frosting your glass. Buffing plexi is really easy and if you learn to do it you can keep your glass looking brand new for years.  

    

   

    

FWIW, We've used the micromesh before. It doesn't seem to work any better than 1500 and 2000 Klingspor sand paper, followed by a good buffing, but it does cost more.  

    



 Regards,  

    

   

    

John Lawton

 Whitwell, TN (TN89)

 N245E - Flying on the rare occasion the weather is decent.  

  

   

       [quote][b]

rampil

Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 870

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:32 am Post subject: Re: Windshield care

Interesting coincidence that after posting yesterday about plexi,

what should appear in my mailbox but the new SportAviation from

EAA with an article on care of windshields!



It seems to echo what John and I said about Pledge, etc.



Clean cotton is hard to come by at my hangar so I have been using

some Dupont Sontara wipe cloths.



You mileage may vary



Ira

_________________
Ira N224XS

gregoryf.flyboy(at)comcas
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:13 pm Post subject: Windshield care

Ira,



I just split the plastic to take a look.



(For those that haven't looked)

The article is "Look, But Don't Touch" (Author: Tim Kern) in the May 2009

edition.

Most of the article deals with washing the windows, while not leaving

scratches, and using polishing compounds to remove them.

It also discusses using horizontal and vertical movements when wiping (but a

professional buffer is okay?).



Anyway, None of the main article relates to our discussion on using Pledge

as a protecting compound.......... however:



There is a "Do's and Don'ts" section in which it IS mentioned.



The quote is (under the Don't part):



"Use things like Ammonia, Windex, Pledge- things that are made for glass

aren't necessarily made for plastic, and usually don't work well"



 	  Quote: 	
		  From my perspextive (worth a little laugh?), it seems that the author might

just be trying to come up with randomly selected brand names that are used
	


with things other than Plexi, to qualify his general statement.



Though I would never use ammonia or Windex without clearing them by looking

for a history of others using it, there is in fact, a history with Pledge,

and a good one as far as I know.



So the question remains, was the author specifically pointing a finger at

Pledge, or was he lumping it in with a bunch of other items, because he was

just trying to think of something not specifically designed for Plexiglas?



Good eye Ira, on seeing this article. It may provide a valid data point, if

we can find out a better explanation about what the author was thinking when

he wrote it. 



I have sent off an email to the Author in an attempt to find out.



Regards,



Greg Fuchs  A050

Where do you get the Dupont Sontara wipe cloths, BTW? Can they be obtained

at an automotive store?



--

Clive J

Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 340
Location: UK

Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 3:44 am Post subject: Windshield care

I've been using some really good stuff called 'Fast Glass' car cleaner by Auto Glym, it is so easy to polish up, streaks disappearing very quickly.   

I bought it from www.partsforaircraft.co.uk but doesn't look like Paul has it any more.    

I have seen it since at Motor Factors large squirty bottle, silicon free. Now got a bottle for the car as well !   

Regards, Clive   

Clive R James  

Harding OIM,   

BP Exploration Operating Company Limited,  

1 Wellheads Avenue, Dyce, Aberdeen AB21 7PB  

Tel: +44 (0)1224 772982  

Fax: +44 (0)1224 834896  

e-mail:  clive.james(at)bp.com  

INK saving ECO SANS FONT used, www.ecofont.eu  

BP Exploration Operating Company Limited, a company registered in England and Wales with the company number 305943 and VAT number GB365678995 and whose registered office is Chertsey Road, Sunbury on Thames, Middlesex TW16 7BP 

    [quote][b]

TELEDYNMCS(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 5:36 am Post subject: Windshield care

In a message dated 5/1/2009 3:02:31 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  europa-list(at)matronics.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Forgive    me for saying this, but "certain polishes like Pledge" doesn't

negatively    support pledge, in my book. I will personally not hesitate  to.... 	
  

 Hello Greg

  

 Quite frankly, I could not care less what you use on your  plexiglass. It is really none of my concern. I urged caution when using  wood furniture polish on plexiglass. I suggested testing any product intended  for use only on wooden furniture on a scrap piece of plexi before  using it on an installed plexiglass windshield. This  is only common sense. Nowhere in my post will you find  any wording saying to use it or not to use it, nor will you find  anything "negatively supporting Pledge", whatever that means. If Pledge  works for you, great! Please, by all means, continue it's use to your  heart's content.

  

 However, everyone should be aware that wood furniture polish products,  like Pledge, contain other ingredients besides the wax in the product that  you are after to protect your plexiglass. These other ingredients may or may not  react with your plexiglass. The fouling ingredient could be a  binder, a propellant, a solvent, anything besides the wax in the  furniture polish you are after. Why risk exposing your glass to these other  ingredients when it's the wax you are after?

  

 It should also be noted that companies who make such  commercial products for wooden furniture are subject to change  formulations with the ebb and flow of suppliers. Different batches of  the same product may or may not include exactly the same  ingredients. I doubt the manufacturers of these products are  taking into consideration that folks like you are using their product on  anything but wooden furniture for anything but polishing wooden  furniture. I also think you would be hard pressed to find anyone  manufacturing plexiglass who recommends the use of wood furniture polish of  any kind on any plexiglass product. If you like using Pledge  on your glass, though, please be my guest.  It is, after  all, your windshield and it is you who will spend the hours replacing it  should it become frosted. 

  

 The purpose of my posting was to offer the group insight into how a  professional sailplane repair shop performs routine maintenance on  sailplane canopies. As such, I hope that someone in our group found this  information useful, even if you did not.

  

 Regards,

  

 John  Lawton

Whitwell, TN (TN89)

N245E -  Flying

 Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the Radio Toolbar!

  [quote][b]

rampil

Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 870

Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 6:23 am Post subject: Re: Windshield care

The sontara wipes were obtained at SnF last year at a pretty good deal.

They are available now at Sporty's and ACSpruce

Here are some links for the curious:



www2.dupont.com/Sontara/en_US/index.html

www2.dupont.com/Sontara/en_US/assets/downloads/Sontara_Aerospace_GradeWipe.pdf

_________________
Ira N224XS

gregoryf.flyboy(at)comcas
Guest

Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 5:47 pm Post subject: Windshield care

Thanks for the info. They look pretty good.

-Greg



--

gregoryf.flyboy(at)comcas
Guest

Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 6:53 pm Post subject: Windshield care

John,  

   

You have good points, and I did find your information useful. I have valued your information on the site in the past, and I will still value it in the future. There is nothing wrong with taking the conservative approach of testing first, and it is good common sense.  I was only pointing out the fact that you may have failed to rule in all of the positive reports that are all over the place for this product being used on plexi, if you were only to go looking for them. What am I supposed to believe, a lot of peoples actual experience, or a few speculative proposals from a few people that have never used the stuff in this application? It is just simple deduction.  

   

That said, you may be right with the fact that the recipe could vary over time. I had not thought of that.  

   

Greg Fuchs A050  

         

  

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of TELEDYNMCS(at)aol.com

 Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 6:34 AM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Windshield care  

  

     

   

    

   

    

In a message dated 5/1/2009 3:02:31 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, europa-list(at)matronics.com writes:  

   	  Quote: 	
		    

Forgive me for saying this, but "certain polishes like Pledge" doesn't

 negatively support pledge, in my book. I will personally not hesitate to....  	
    

   

    

Hello Greg  

    

   

    

Quite frankly, I could not care less what you use on your plexiglass. It is really none of my concern. I urged caution when using wood furniture polish on plexiglass. I suggested testing any product intended for use only on wooden furniture on a scrap piece of plexi before using it on an installed plexiglass windshield. This is only common sense. Nowhere in my post will you find any wording saying to use it or not to use it, nor will you find anything "negatively supporting Pledge", whatever that means. If Pledge works for you, great! Please, by all means, continue it's use to your heart's content.  

    

   

    

However, everyone should be aware that wood furniture polish products, like Pledge, contain other ingredients besides the wax in the product that you are after to protect your plexiglass. These other ingredients may or may not react with your plexiglass. The fouling ingredient could be a binder, a propellant, a solvent, anything besides the wax in the furniture polish you are after. Why risk exposing your glass to these other ingredients when it's the wax you are after?  

    

   

    

It should also be noted that companies who make such commercial products for wooden furniture are subject to change formulations with the ebb and flow of suppliers. Different batches of the same product may or may not include exactly the same ingredients. I doubt the manufacturers of these products are taking into consideration that folks like you are using their product on anything but wooden furniture for anything but polishing wooden furniture. I also think you would be hard pressed to find anyone manufacturing plexiglass who recommends the use of wood furniture polish of any kind on any plexiglass product. If you like using Pledge on your glass, though, please be my guest.  It is, after all, your windshield and it is you who will spend the hours replacing it should it become frosted.   

    

   

    

The purpose of my posting was to offer the group insight into how a professional sailplane repair shop performs routine maintenance on sailplane canopies. As such, I hope that someone in our group found this information useful, even if you did not.  

    

   

    

Regards,  

    

   

    

John Lawton

 Whitwell, TN (TN89)

 N245E - Flying  

  

       

  

Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the Radio Toolbar!   	  Quote: 	
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gregoryf.flyboy(at)comcas
Guest

Posted: Sat May 02, 2009 6:32 pm Post subject: Windshield care

Ira, John, and all who cares to see:



I don't want to keep beating a dead horse, but I did get a response from the

author(Tim, nice guy) of the article.



The author's information was received by him, as second hand information.

Here is a bit from the email response:



"The "dis-recommendation" came from a resoration(sic) company. They don't

sell any products, just services. They're pretty famous for windscreen

restorations in bizjets, particularly." 



Still, there is no information on why it is not recommended or the type of

person who originally said it. I doubt Tim knows, either. It is strange that

there never seem to be any first hand, detailed accounts. 



So anyway, here is 1 bit of negative report in a sea of many, many, many

positives by motorcyclists and plane enthusiasts alike.



With no details, I will leave it up to you to decide whether you want to

give it credence, or if you think it is just a data outlier (a data point

outside of the norm to be thrown out), or if you just don't give a dang. 



One thing seems sure: The sun will probably do much more damage to our

windscreens than the protectants we have been discussing (ones long used on

plexi).



This thread can gather dust now, hopefully.



Regards,

Greg

Ira,

...

I have sent off an email to the Author in an attempt to find out.



Regards,



Greg Fuchs  A050



 	  Quote: 	
		  Interesting coincidence that after posting yesterday about plexi, what

should appear in my mailbox but the new SportAviation from EAA with an

article on care of windshields!


	


 	  Quote: 	
		  It seems to echo what John and I said about Pledge, etc.


	


 	  Quote: 	
		  Ira

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