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Europa-List: Europa Original Seat Belts´ Inherent Risk

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craigb(at)onthenet.com.au
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Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 1:53 pm Post subject: Europa-List: Europa Original Seat Belts´ Inherent Risk

Ramio,  for what its worth, having rolled my own race car once I understand what you are  saying, even the "race" harnesses

 can  get a bit tight to undo when you are upside down, but in australia you can get a  "life hammer" as they call it

 its  designed to easily cut belts in one go without cutting the wearer of the belt,  and to break toughened glass. Obviously

 the  breaking glass bit wont work on plexi but if its mounted on the roof or panel  should still be easliy reached when you

 are  upside down. But lets all hope that we never "land" in that  position.

  

 craig

  

 Do not  archive 

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fklein(at)orcasonline.com
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Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 3:13 pm Post subject: Europa-List: Europa Original Seat Belts´ Inherent Risk

Raimo...Before I discard my beloved Europa seat belts, I will make test when fuselage is rigged on my rotisserie...I will attempt break out from harness when inverted and report back...first I will place 3 pillows on floor below my head.



Of course in the event of crash and inversion, since I have raised the level of the pivot point of the shoulder harness on the raised portion of the seat back with my little gizmo, I anticipate being fully mobile and not to have suffered any spinal trauma which would otherwise hinder my ability to release myself from the harness and exit the aircraft...a detail not to be overlooked when considering optimum conditions for survivability. 

Fred

A194

On May 5, 2009, at 10:18 AM, Raimo Toivio wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  All who use or are going to use Europa original seat belts

 

There is also one another (one is the potential hip hit in accident) safety problem with Europa-type belts and installation:

 

They form a fixed loop around your shoulders.

 

In the case of accident if you are upsidedown it is hard or even impossible to escape.

That may be very difficult even in a car with just an ordinary three point seat belts.

 

Think:

 

- after ditching or any bad landing you may be upside down. What kind of last moments you have before drowning or burning or starving if you cannot escape because of unlockable safety belts?

 

After certain this category fatal accidents those type "loop" belts have been illegal and strictly forbidden in Finland since 2001. That order is also valid for experimentals and ultralights.

I do not know the actual situation in other countries.

 

That is why I have German made Schroth TSo belts with central lock and four fully separate laps.

 

I wish you all have anyway minimum a lap knife in a practical place near by.

 

I hope nobody will suck a pea into her/his nose because of my message!

 

Wishes, Raimo OH-XRT

 

PS: I have one free free set of Europa belts for anyone but they are definetely not for aviation use!

 



	


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raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
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Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 3:00 am Post subject: Europa-List: Europa Original Seat Belts´ Inherent Risk

Thanks Graig for understanding.

  

 I have in my cars similar belt cutters behind sun  vizors.

  

 To survive

  

 - you have to understand you need it

 - you have to remember where it is

 - you have to reach it

 - you have to be able to use it physically

  

 After hard experiences all of this points could be  difficult to complete.

  

 We buy all kind of unnecessary toys to make us  happy.

 Why don´t we buy something (safer safety belts) which  could save our life.

 As alive it is easier to be happy and play with those  toys.

  

 BTW what about safety belts with Airbags then...you  know statistics.

  

 But lets all hope that we never "land"  in that position.

  

 Let´s do so.

  

 Raimo OH-XRT

  

 PS: one possible scenario: 

  

 Prop is feathered for gliding.

 You cannot unfeather it.

 Forced landing follows.

 Prop blades are very strong when in feathered  position.

 If they will hit somewhere, plane will go uppside down  almost surely.

  

 This "warning" is in the Airmaster Operator´s  Manual.

  

  

  

  

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raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
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Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 3:11 am Post subject: Europa-List: Europa Original Seat Belts´ Inherent Risk

Fred, great!

 [quote]    

   Raimo...Before I discard my beloved Europa seat belts, I will make test    when fuselage is rigged on my rotisserie..I will attempt break out from    harness when inverted and report back...first I will place 3 pillows on floor    below my head.

    

   Please please take a video from that    mission!

   Goog luck - you are a real hero if you really do    that!

   Remember to remove plane´s door before that test and    please use helmet!

   And do not do it alone  

    

   I will copy if you mind your "little gizmo" during next    winter delay. 

    

   Raimo OH-XRT

    

   PS: should you first try with a sand sack which is    about same weight like you?!

   



   Of course in the event of crash and inversion, since I have raised the    level of the pivot point of the shoulder harness on the raised portion of the    seat back with my little gizmo, I anticipate being fully mobile and not to    have suffered any spinal trauma which would otherwise hinder my ability to    release myself from the harness and exit the aircraft...a detail not to be    overlooked when considering optimum conditions for survivability. 

   



   Fred

   A194

   



         On May 5, 2009, at 10:18 AM, Raimo Toivio wrote:

    	  Quote: 	
		            All who use or are going to use Europa original seat      belts

      

     There is also one another (one is the potential      hip hit in accident) safety problem with Europa-type belts and      installation:

      

     They form a fixed loop around your      shoulders.

      

     In the case of accident if you are upsidedown it is hard      or even impossible to escape.

     That may be very difficult even in a car      with just an ordinary three point seat belts.

      

     Think:

      

     - after ditching or any bad landing you may be upside      down. What kind of last moments you have before drowning or burning or      starving if you cannot escape because of unlockable safety      belts?

      

     After certain this category fatal accidents those      type "loop" belts have been illegal and strictly forbidden in Finland      since 2001. That order is also valid for experimentals and      ultralights.

     I do not know the actual situation in other      countries.

      

     That is why I have German made Schroth TSo belts with      central lock and four fully separate laps.

      

     I wish you all have anyway minimum a lap knife in a      practical place near by.

      

     I hope nobody will suck a pea into her/his nose      because of my message!

      

     Wishes, Raimo OH-XRT

      

     PS: I have one free free set of Europa belts for      anyone but they are definetely not for aviation use!

      



	




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