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Kayberg(at)aol.com
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 Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 7:34 am Post subject: Dougs response to Gary II |
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Gary,
Again, best wishes.
I spent the last 10 years or so doing warrantee work on a variety of water heaters. I found that one of the secrets was getting a good grasp on "cause and effect". Actually, one of my pet theories is that we are becoming a country of bad thinkers....unwilling to really deal with cause and effect. Instead, the tendency is to jump to conclusions without careful thinking. (swine flue anyone?) I observed that when people were in the middle of a big mess they wanted to assign blame quickly to something. Not infrequently I would encounter a bevy of "engineers" who would offer their thoughts as to both the blame and the cause. Many times it was an uphill battle to help everyone understand what had really happened. Many times it was only when I could demonstrate the cause and effect would people change their conclusions.
Previous to that, I spent some time working with epoxy products in commercial applications. That also dealt with some failures. I also observed that lots of opinions were offered when there was some product failure by people who considered themselves experts. Yet, the chemistry of bonding is not a simple one. Even more so when it came to the use of solvents to do prep cleaning or post-installation cleaning. For example, you used Acetone to remove the current sealant in your tanks, but do you know how long you need to wait for the tank material to become hard again? (generally solvents work by "softening" the surface) Or is a neutralizing rinse required?
I chose to raise some possible causes to your situation in addition to the conclusion that your tanks had problems that were caused by ethanol. To be sure, ethanol CAN cause softening of some materials, but it should not be quickly concluded that it caused YOUR problems.
Another post discusses your problems with the tank drains. You felt that the "factory" had miss-installed them. Yet, the wings are shipped from Wisconsin with pipe plugs in them. Someone else had to install the drains. By the way, it is not uncommon to have problems with the drains. Everyone uses them, but they can be temperamental and easily leak if some dirt is present.
More significantly, those drains are not installed until the final wing assembly. Typically the plugs are left in while the fuel caps, body work and paint is being done. Then the tanks are vacuumed, rinsed out, the quick drains installed and then filled with fuel. Had someone damaged the tank during vacuuming or rinsing (perhaps with a solvent, Acetone, MEK, Methelene Cloride, etc) that may have given the ethanol a toehold which has finally been noticed. The preliminary damage could have occurred long ago but just shown up now. I understand you have rejected that notion, but in my mind it is still on the table.
I have not spoken to Nick or anyone in authority in Lightning land about your or your situation. My thoughts are my own. I assumed that when another post mentioned that the tank sealant was en route it would be offered gratis. My first post simply suggested that it could be a slippery slope to offer much more "warrantee" help.
What is different about small "new" production items, in contrast to waterheaters or large volume consumer products is that all those who buy them have a very major stake in the company. There are a lot of "orphan" airplanes out there giving testimony to the perils of kit production. It is important that Lightning sales continue strong and that any production problems be resolved......or conversely non-production problems be properly assigned. We all have a stake in that from both a safety standpoint and a longevity standpoint.
Doug Koenigsberg
In a message dated 5/17/2009 7:13:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, pennington(at)q.com writes:
| Quote: | Doug
I think you communicated your position quite well.
Answers to your comments:
1. I suppose it is possible that Chevron mixed some mysterious chemical in their fuel that only I purchased for my Lightning. I couldn't rule out the possibility that an alien from outer space visited and contaminated my tanks. Not very likely though! My Lightning is always locked up in a hanger!
No, it is far more likely that your tank builder had a bad day and failed to adequately prep the tanks. But then, you wouldn't admit to that.
2. The Lightning builder in Marana, Arizona said it is probably caused by ethanol. Other pilots who have inspected the tanks have said it was poor preparation. Nick also believes it was poor prep. That being the case, where's my replacement wings?
By the way, Nick is not offering a "free fix" in any way, shape or form! So far, the only warrantee remedy is two cans of sealant and I don't even have that yet! If someone told you that Arion Lightning is fixing my plane for free, they are a liar! Did someone really tell you that, or, did you just make it up?
3. Arion Lightning has not offered to reimburse me for anything. None of this would have happened if your product was top quality as advertised.
4. Bulllshit!
Gary Pennington
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pennington(at)q.com
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 2:39 pm Post subject: Dougs response to Gary II |
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<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]--> This will be my last response to your ramblings. I hope I have the opportunity to meet you someday.
Gary Pennington
[quote] ---
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Kayberg(at)AOL.COM
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 2:47 pm Post subject: Dougs response to Gary II |
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In a message dated 5/18/2009 6:39:52 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, pennington(at)q.com writes:
| Quote: | This will be my last response to your ramblings. I hope I have the opportunity to meet you someday.
Gary Pennington
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As you wish.
May you be back in the air soon.
Doug Koenigsberg
[quote][b]
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wampam
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
Posts: 49
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 1:50 pm Post subject: Re: Dougs response to Gary II |
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Just a footnote - Many octane boosters contain Toluene which is also a solvent for many sloshing compounds.
W. Mefford
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