Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Leaking Tank How To

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

davercook1501(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 7:51 am Post subject: Leaking Tank How To

Hi All

I want to help a friend with his leaking tank, I know about the green Loctite. My question is how to create the vacuum with out blowing us up. Any Magiver solutions out there. I'm a little concerned with using the vacuum cleaner. Its on a 9A and don't relish removing the tank.

Thanks 

 

David R. Cook

  N815DC  RV-6

  Flying





            [quote][b]

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 8:16 am Post subject: Leaking Tank How To

First off, you don't need much vacuum, if at all.  The green Loctite 

will wick into the hole on it's own.



Second ..... well, if there's a good amount of airflow ..... don't seal 

up the hose in the filler neck at all ..... there will not be sufficient 

air/fuel ratio to ignite ..... which is where I think the 'blowing us 

up' comes from.  But, if you're not comfortable doing the vacuum cleaner 

thingy ..... just don't.  Safety should be your first consideration.  I 

think collapsing the tank would be more concern than blowing it up!



You could probably suck a little vacuum on the tank by attaching one of 

the vacuum brake bleeders to the tank vent line.



Linn

david cook wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Hi All

 I want to help a friend with his leaking tank, I know about the green 

 Loctite. My question is how to create the vacuum with out blowing us up. 

 Any Magiver solutions out there. I'm a little concerned with using the 

 vacuum cleaner. Its on a 9A and don't relish removing the tank.

 Thanks

  

 David R. Cook

 N815DC  RV-6

 Flying

 

 

 *

 

 

 *

 

 

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

lenleg(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 8:51 am Post subject: Leaking Tank How To

Tell me about the Green Loctite ... automotive stores?  I have a small leak I would like to fix.

 

 Len

 

 

 --

davercook1501(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 10:11 am Post subject: Leaking Tank How To

Yes I found it at NAPA

 

David R. Cook

  N815DC  RV-6

  Flying



From: "lenleg(at)aol.com" <lenleg(at)aol.com>

To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 12:49:09 PM

Subject: Re: Leaking Tank How To



 Tell me about the Green Loctite ... automotive stores?  I have a small leak I would like to fix.

 

 Len

 

 

 --

ceengland(at)bellsouth.ne
Guest

Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 11:00 am Post subject: Leaking Tank How To

Hi Len,



Lots of sources:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=green+loctite+609&aq=1&oq=green+loct&aqi=g4



Charlie



lenleg(at)aol.com wrote:

[quote] Tell me about the Green Loctite ... automotive stores?  I have a small 

 leak I would like to fix.



 Len

 --

vshimsl(at)live.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 11:07 am Post subject: Leaking Tank How To

Hello C



DO NOT use an electric vacuum cleaner. Use a modified nozzle and compressed air to generate a safe vacuum. BUT!



I repaired my tanks without generating a vacuum at all... 



First C you can bypass removing the tanks only if you are absolutely sure C as in can see C that there are no leaks on the rear baffle. I removed mine but found none.



Having said that C the leak(s) you are encountering are most likely around a rivet attaching the rear baffle C either along the top or along the bottom of the tank.



I had three on top of one tank C and one on the bottom of the other. All were repaired using Loctite Thread Blocker Green. To be precise my leaks took over night to become visible and were around rivets attaching the rear tank baffle. The largest blue stain ring was about 1" diameter . Both tanks had passed the air/bubble test during construction. (Note to current builders: use fuel to test your tanks).



The leaks on top are relatively easy. Raise the airplane and/or remove or preferably fly off enough fuel so that gas isn't pushing out. Now place a drop of Threadblocker Green (TG) on the rivet. Wearing a plastic glove simply press down on the bubble. Repeat this process several times. Finish up by putting a drop(s) on the leaking rivet and letting it sit overnight. TG only solidifies in the abscence of oxygen so you can easily wipe off the residue the next day.



If the leak(s) are on the bottom you must drain the tank to remove the pressure from the fuel pushing out and then use the procedure above. 



The idea is that pressure (and capillary action) from outside is just as effective C and much easier to apply C than vacuum from within. 



I repaired my leaks several weeks ago and inspecting the tanks daily C the leaks haven't returned.



The rear tank baffle is problematic for first time builders as the directions say you need enough pro-seal to prevent leaks but not so much that you alter the shape. 



I believe TG is the first step (going from simplest to painful) recommended by Van's Aircraft (check archives). The next is proseal outside C and then C brace yourself C removing the tanks C cutting access holes in the baffle and then applying proseal from within.



May the Threadblocker Green be with you!



Regards C

Vince H.

RV-8 N8432 "Final Inspection June 6th!"

Date: Thu C 21 May 2009 08:41:25 -0700

From: davercook1501(at)yahoo.com

Subject: Leaking Tank How To

To: rv-list(at)matronics.com



   .ExternalClass DIV {;} Hi All

I want to help a friend with his leaking tank C I know about the green Loctite. My question is how to create the vacuum with out blowing us up. Any Magiver solutions out there. I'm a little concerned with using the vacuum cleaner. Its on a 9A and don't relish removing the tank.

Thanks 

 

David R. Cook

  N815DC  RV-6

  Flying



 	  Quote: 	
		  	
Hotmail® has a new way to see what's up with your friends. Check it out.

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 11:53 am Post subject: Leaking Tank How To

lenleg(at)aol.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Tell me about the Green Loctite ... automotive stores?

Yup!  If your favorite doesn't carry it .... look at other auto parts 
	


places.

Linn



   I have a small

[quote] leak I would like to fix.

 

 Len

 

 

 --

jconnell(at)fmwildblue.co
Guest

Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 1:07 pm Post subject: Leaking Tank How To

Loctite 290 is the same as Permatex 29000 and NAPA BK 7651148.

  

 (Drove a few miles to figure this out...)

   [quote][b]

RV6160hp(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 2:15 pm Post subject: Leaking Tank How To

For vacuum ....I have one of these  older models for HVAC work ...and while I have not done this on the RV fuel  tanks.... I am aware of the technique & done on home heating oil tank  (less volatile??) repairs with vacuum cleaner...this probably will not collapse  your tank as fast either...

  

 Thus for my $.02 FWIW ...if you have an air  compressor and long hoses you can make vacuum from one of these without electric  motors near by & present...

  

 Yup good old Harbor Freight.... Internet prices  matched at our local store too... go see item  96677-7VGA,  Air Vacuum Pump  $14.99 and with R134A and R12 Connectors to boot....heck someday you may  want to put AC in a RV and vacuum out the system prior to  charge???

  

 RV6 350 + TT   Builder,  Pilot.

 FJ2

 Stay connected and tighten your budget with a great mobile device for under556/aol?redir=http://www.getpeek.com/aol>Take a Peek!

  [quote][b]

ceengland(at)bellsouth.ne
Guest

Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 2:55 pm Post subject: Leaking Tank How To

RV6160hp(at)aol.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   *For vacuum ....I have one of these older models for HVAC work ...and 

 while I have not done this on the RV fuel tanks.... I am aware of the 

 technique & done on home heating oil tank (less volatile??) repairs 

 with vacuum cleaner...this probably will not collapse your tank as 

 fast either...*

 ** 

 *Thus for my $.02 FWIW ...if you have an air compressor and long hoses 

 you can make vacuum from one of these without electric motors near by 

 & present...*

 ** 

 *Yup good old Harbor Freight.... Internet prices matched at our local 

 store too... go see item  96677-7VGA, **Air Vacuum Pump $14.99 and 

 with R134A and R12 Connectors to boot....heck someday you may want to 

 put AC in a RV and vacuum out the system prior to charge???*

 ** 

 *RV6 350 + TT   Builder, Pilot.*

 *FJ2*


	


You might want to ignore anything I say after I posted the wrong loctite 

#, but here goes:



All you're looking for is a pressure differential & you don't really 

need it for that long. With a large syringe (no needle) & a sheet of 

soft rubber with a hole in the middle, you can put a drop of thread lock 

on the rivet, use the rubber sheet as a gasket, and pressurize the area 

using the syringe. Once the thread lock is forced into the gap, no 

pressure is needed. In fact, continued pressure/vacuum can actually 

re-open the gap.



Does the description make sense?



Charlie

RV6160hp(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 3:30 pm Post subject: Leaking Tank How To

Yup whole heatedly agreed...the vacuum I applied in the past on  big "earl" tanks was to replace filters, fittings & lines without flow  out from the tanks for a duration of repairs...I can understand fully your  mention of  we may just reopen the gap with constant vacuum  applied...

  

 I easily can agree with your force a little via pressure (not vacuum  now) into the leak area there from the outside, localized as you  outlined below, it would be a better 1st attempt for leak repair......  

  

  

  

 In a message dated 5/22/2009 6:56:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  ceengland(at)bellsouth.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    RV-List message posted by: Charlie England    <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>



RV6160hp(at)aol.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   *For    vacuum ....I have one of these older models for HVAC work ...and 

    while I have not done this on the RV fuel tanks.... I am aware of the 

    technique & done on home heating oil tank (less volatile??) repairs    

 with vacuum cleaner...this probably will not collapse your tank as    

 fast either...*

 ** 

 *Thus for my $.02 FWIW ...if you    have an air compressor and long hoses 

 you can make vacuum from one of    these without electric motors near by 

 & present...*

 **    

 *Yup good old Harbor Freight.... Internet prices matched at our local    

 store too... go see item  96677-7VGA, **Air Vacuum Pump $14.99    and 

 with R134A and R12 Connectors to boot....heck someday you may    want to 

 put AC in a RV and vacuum out the system prior to    charge???*

 ** 

 *RV6 350 + TT   Builder,    Pilot.*

 *FJ2*


	


You might want to ignore anything I say after I    posted the wrong loctite 

#, but here goes:



All you're looking for    is a pressure differential & you don't really 

need it for that long.    With a large syringe (no needle) & a sheet of 

soft rubber with a hole    in the middle, you can put a drop of thread lock 

on the rivet, use the    rubber sheet as a gasket, and pressurize the area 

using the syringe. Once    the thread lock is forced into the gap, no 

pressure is needed. In fact,    continued pressure/vacuum can actually 

re-open the gap.



Does the    description make sense?



Charlie 	


 

  

 Stay connected and tighten your budget with a great mobile device for under $50. Take a Peek!

  [quote][b]

ianxbrown

Joined: 16 May 2009
Posts: 80

Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 3:36 pm Post subject: Leaking Tank How To

Evan Johnson gave me some great advice, and I was able to fix a fairly

large leak (despite the air pressure testing) by diluting Proseal with

lacquer thinner, which contains MEK and some other ingredients.  It did

a great job, but it has to be run along the seams, on the inside of the

tank, involving removing the tank.  I did some comparison between using

acetone and lacquer thinner and the latter did a much better job of

making the Proseal adequately runny, but it dried to a nice firm

consistency.



Unfortunately, if you're trying to fix a baffle seal leak, rather than a

rivet, you'll have to remove the tank to do this.  The good news is that

you can pour in the diluted Proseal via the filler and just patiently

let it flow along to the other end and back a few times.  You should not

need to cut new holes if it's leaking along the baffle seam.



As others suggested, the best way to test the tank is with Avgas since

the staining helps localize the leaks, and on my data point of two

tanks, the air test failed to localize a leak in one of them.



Ian Brown

RV-9A

Bromont

Quebec

ceengland(at)bellsouth.ne
Guest

Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 4:53 pm Post subject: Leaking Tank How To

Ian wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Evan Johnson gave me some great advice, and I was able to fix a fairly

 large leak (despite the air pressure testing) by diluting Proseal with

 lacquer thinner, which contains MEK and some other ingredients.  It did

 a great job, but it has to be run along the seams, on the inside of the

 tank, involving removing the tank.  I did some comparison between using

 acetone and lacquer thinner and the latter did a much better job of

 making the Proseal adequately runny, but it dried to a nice firm

 consistency.



 Unfortunately, if you're trying to fix a baffle seal leak, rather than a

 rivet, you'll have to remove the tank to do this.  The good news is that

 you can pour in the diluted Proseal via the filler and just patiently

 let it flow along to the other end and back a few times.  You should not

 need to cut new holes if it's leaking along the baffle seam.



 As others suggested, the best way to test the tank is with Avgas since

 the staining helps localize the leaks, and on my data point of two

 tanks, the air test failed to localize a leak in one of them.



 Ian Brown

 RV-9A

 Bromont

 Quebec

   


	


I had a similar issue with an aux tank I added to the wing leading edge 

(laid the bead too far from the back baffle). I called Flamemaster (the 

brand of 'proseal' Van was supplying at the time) & asked for a pour 

able sealant that was compatible with the original sealant. IIRC, the 

product they recommended was CS3600; you can find the spec sheet here:

http://www.flamemaster.com/sealants.html



I've also (mis?)used it on the access cover as a gasket sealant for the 

cork gasket, & then painted it over the edges& over the screw heads 

after installing the cover.



If anyone needs to order some, drop me a line & I'll go look at the can 

to be sure of the # before you order. 



Lots of other interesting stuff on the page, including the CS3300 products.



Charlie

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum