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rear bearing play problem

 
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jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:19 am    Post subject: rear bearing play problem Reply with quote
I would like some advice.

I am at the end of Ch 13 where the aileron drives have been installed on
the bottom of the cockpit module including cross tube and sticks.
I find I have a problem. When exercising a stick sideways while holding
the cross tube there is play in the corresponding rear bearing - tufnol
CS06 and CS07 aluminium flange. Port side worst. Bang - bang - bang. I
think there is about 10 mils (0.25 mm) room. The bearings.are not
greased/oiled yet and I can actually see light through the crack. When
one holds the cross tube the resulting play at the top of the port stick
is about 0.5 mm (arm roughly doubled). It seems like a little but I fear
this will be annoying in operation.

I'm not looking forward to replacing the tufnol parts. Removing the CS07
from the steel tube undamaged will be essential if I want to keep all
the rest of the setup.
If I have to then heating the tube from the inside with a halogen bulb
may work best
Another question is whether replacement CS06 from Europa will be a
better fit (I don't remember doing anything to the insides of the
offending ones).
ACS has 1/2" micarta if necessary.

Any thoughts very welcome.

Jan de Jong

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craigb(at)onthenet.com.au
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:29 am    Post subject: rear bearing play problem Reply with quote
I had an issue with my cs07's being non-concentric, which i discovered after
making the cs06 captive, with the sticks binding at extremes of travel. The runout
did seem to be about the same on both. If yours is excessively free, maybe you
could reach a compromise by deliberately mis-aligning the bearing very very slightly,
which is basically the reverse of what I did to free mine up.

craig

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Rowland_Carson



Joined: 04 Jul 2008
Posts: 155
Location: Cheltenham, England
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:40 am    Post subject: rear bearing play problem Reply with quote
At 2009-06-12 12:15 +0200 Jan de Jong wrote:

Quote:
there is play in the corresponding rear bearing - tufnol CS06 and
CS07 aluminium flange. Port side worst. Bang - bang - bang. I think
there is about 10 mils (0.25 mm) room. The bearings.are not
greased/oiled yet and I can actually see light through the crack

Jan - the advice I received from the factory is that the Tufnol
bearings should NOT be greased or oiled. My inspector confirmed that
oil is a BAD THING here - it collects dust which then turns into
grinding paste and destroys the bearing. I did put a thin film of
non-silicone furniture wax on mine, but as it's not tacky it does not
tend to collect stray particles in the same way as grease, and does
not migrate easily like oil.

I'm trying to visualise how you're getting your eye in position to
see the gap between CS06 & CS07. Even if CS06 is not bolted in (so
you can get your eye close to CS05), the flange of CS07 must prevent
seeing daylight in the gap. But that's not important, obviously you
have a gap from the evidence of play in the system.

Quote:
I'm not looking forward to replacing the tufnol parts. Removing the
CS07 from the steel tube undamaged will be essential if I want to
keep all the rest of the setup.
If I have to then heating the tube from the inside with a halogen
bulb may work best

If you remove the CS07 from CS05 (and heat, perhaps a hot-air gun, is
the way to make Redux give way) how will you be able to position the
rivet holes in the new CS07? You want them to align exactly with the
original holes in CS05 so the rivets will hold. I can't think of a
really easy way to do that. Maybe CS05 could be clamped in position
with vee-blocks on a drill-press table to align correctly with the
drill bit, and then CS07 slipped on to be drilled. For subsequent
holes, the first hole would need to have a rivet inserted to keep the
alignment correct.

Quote:
Another question is whether replacement CS06 from Europa will be a better fit

You could ask the factory to supply a pair of CS07-CS06 and ask that
they be checked for correct fit before dispatch.

regards

Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson http://home.clara.net/rowil/
| <rowil(at)clara.net> ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...

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ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:25 am    Post subject: rear bearing play problem Reply with quote
Hi! Jan
It looks to me that you have serious discrepancy of tolerances.
In my experience most folks had "binding" of these bushings and needed
to "bed" them in by the use of a copper cleaning item called "Brasso" to
free up any stiffness.
Regards
Bob Harrison .

--

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jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl
Guest
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:25 am    Post subject: rear bearing play problem Reply with quote
craig bastin wrote:
Quote:


I had an issue with my cs07's being non-concentric, which i discovered after
making the cs06 captive, with the sticks binding at extremes of travel. The runout
did seem to be about the same on both. If yours is excessively free, maybe you
could reach a compromise by deliberately mis-aligning the bearing very very slightly,
which is basically the reverse of what I did to free mine up.

craig

Hi Craig,

A misalignment of about 1 in 50 would be required, about 2 or 3 mm end
to end. A bit much and not much bearing surface then.
A possibility but I am not enthousiastic.
Jan

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jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl
Guest
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:14 am    Post subject: rear bearing play problem Reply with quote
Rowland,
Quote:
Jan - the advice I received from the factory is that the Tufnol
bearings should NOT be greased or oiled. My inspector confirmed that
oil is a BAD THING here - it collects dust which then turns into
grinding paste and destroys the bearing. I did put a thin film of
non-silicone furniture wax on mine, but as it's not tacky it does not
tend to collect stray particles in the same way as grease, and does
not migrate easily like oil.
Does this apply to the front bearing too?

Quote:

I'm trying to visualise how you're getting your eye in position to see
the gap between CS06 & CS07. Even if CS06 is not bolted in (so you can
get your eye close to CS05), the flange of CS07 must prevent seeing
daylight in the gap. But that's not important, obviously you have a
gap from the evidence of play in the system.
Cockpit upside down, sighting rearwards along steel tube CS05, seeing

front section of aluminium flange CS07 and front face of tufnol part
CS06 I see light.between CS07 and CS06 shine through from space between
rear of CS06 and flanged part of CS07. Never mind.
Quote:
If you remove the CS07 from CS05 (and heat, perhaps a hot-air gun, is
the way to make Redux give way) how will you be able to position the
rivet holes in the new CS07? You want them to align exactly with the
original holes in CS05 so the rivets will hold. I can't think of a
really easy way to do that. Maybe CS05 could be clamped in position
with vee-blocks on a drill-press table to align correctly with the
drill bit, and then CS07 slipped on to be drilled. For subsequent
holes, the first hole would need to have a rivet inserted to keep the
alignment correct.
I intend to not replace CS07 if at all possible and reuse all rivet

holes after carefully drilling the rivets out. Heating either from
inside CS05 or outside CS07 or both.
Aluminium has very good thermal conductivity (7 or 8 times as much as
steel Wikepedia says) so heating outside may suffice.

If Europa supplied CS06 are too big then producing a fitting CS06 from
scratch will still be easier then replacing CS07. As you say the holes
in CS05 will be almost impossible to find.
There is also the possibility of oversize pop rivets if necessary to
preserve CS07?

Thanks,
Jan

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jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl
Guest
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:15 am    Post subject: rear bearing play problem Reply with quote
Hi Bob,
I read a lot about binding relief in the archives indeed - never a
mention of too much play...
Regards,
Jan

Robert C Harrison wrote:
[quote]

Hi! Jan
It looks to me that you have serious discrepancy of tolerances.
In my experience most folks had "binding" of these bushings and needed
to "bed" them in by the use of a copper cleaning item called "Brasso" to
free up any stiffness.
Regards
Bob Harrison .

--

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