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Oil Burn

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rosestar(at)sonic.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:45 am Post subject: Oil Burn

I would like to know what everyone's oil burn rate is on the Jabiru 

3300.  If you wouldn't mind, please let me know how many hours on 

airplane, how often you add oil, and how much do you add.  So far, mine is:



TT:  42 hours; every five hours I add oil; 1/4 quart added each time.  

Now that I am flying longer trips, I expect my numbers will be larger in 

the last two categories.



Thanks,



Brad DeMeo

N601BD - Zodiac XL

imap8ntr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:10 pm Post subject: Oil Burn

TT 234hrs, 1oz/hr 100W Plus,  or 1 1/2 oz/hr multigrade oil.  I add oil at 

the end of each flight to keem my level at the same spot on the stick.  I 

use a measuring cup and add 1oz for each hour flown during that flight. 

This way it can drain and I can get an accurate reading of the stick before 

I start my next flight day.



Ivan

Phoenix, AZ



---

dhonabach

Joined: 19 Jan 2009
Posts: 13

Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:11 pm Post subject: Oil Burn

I've got about 100 hours on mine - am I supposed to be adding oil? Never

checked - LOL!!!



Seriously, I haven't been able to really track my usage properly. I end

up with a lot going overboard as I have a tendency to have a bit too

much fun when I fly  ... It did seem to settle down for me though

after my first 50 or so hours.



Don

--

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:55 pm Post subject: Oil Burn

That's about when the engine was done with its break-in, wouldn't you  

suppose?



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 687.3 hrs

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Status: flying





On Jul 1, 2009, at 4:58 PM, Don Honabach wrote:



[quote] 

 <don(at)pcperfect.com>



 I've got about 100 hours on mine - am I supposed to be adding oil?  

 Never

 checked - LOL!!!



 Seriously, I haven't been able to really track my usage properly. I  

 end

 up with a lot going overboard as I have a tendency to have a bit too

 much fun when I fly  ... It did seem to settle down for me though

 after my first 50 or so hours.



 Don

 --

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

DaveG601XL

Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 351
Location: Cincinnati, Oh

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:12 am Post subject: Re: Oil Burn

With 87 or so total time on the hobbs, I am burning about 1/2 - 3/4 oz. per hour on 15W50.  I had about that same rate on straight mineral oil during break-in.  On my first oil change at 25 hours, I went to W100 and for some reason my consumption rate about quadrupled.  When winter approached, I changed to 15W50.  Seeing that consumption rate drop back down, I have not even considered going back to W100 this summer.  Don't know why the big difference in consumption between the oil types.



BTW, I keep my oil level between 1/4 and 1/2 on the dip stick per a verbal suggestion that, I believe, came from Pete.



Good Luck,

_________________
David Gallagher
Cincinnati, OH area

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:28 am Post subject: Oil Burn

What serial number?



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 687.3 hrs

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Status: flying

do not archive



On Jul 2, 2009, at 7:12 AM, DaveG601XL wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com>



 With 87 or so total time on the hobbs, I am burning about 1/2 - 3/4  

 oz. per hour on 15W50.  I had about that same rate on straight  

 mineral oil during break-in.  On my first oil change at 25 hours, I  

 went to W100 and for some reason my consumption rate about  

 quadrupled.  When winter approached, I changed to 15W50.  Seeing  

 that consumption rate drop back down, I have not even considered  

 going back to W100 this summer.  Don't know why the big difference  

 in consumption between the oil types.



 BTW, I keep my oil level between 1/4 and 1/2 on the dip stick per a  

 verbal suggestion that, I believe, came from Pete.



 Good Luck,



 --------

 David Gallagher

 601 XL/Jabiru 3300

 First flight 7/24/08

 85 hours and climbing!





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 51090#251090

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Stephen Smith

Joined: 02 Jul 2009
Posts: 13
Location: Santa Rosa, CA

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:48 pm Post subject: Re: Oil Burn

My 3300 has been flying for two years and has about 550 hours on it.  Here in Santa Rosa California I use Aeroshell 15w50 in the winter and Aeroshell 100 plus in the summer.  Consumption has gone up over the past 150 hours or so.  It is now at about 1 quart per 450 miles.  



I have minor seepage in several places on the engine but nothing I would call a leak.  The volume of oil in the separator has been going up, but sure does not account for anything like the quantity being consumed.  The spark plugs look reasonable - not fouled or dark.  Compression check 25 hours ago is down to 70, 76, 74, 68, 60, 75.  Not sure where the oil is going if its not past the rings and out the tail pipe.



Yes, I toss my plane around a bit - it asks for it, I swear!  In high angle climbs and steep banks I can smell hot oil for a few seconds.



Frankly the consumption seem quite high and a bit disappointing.  Anyone else with 550 or more hours?  What is your consumption?



My engine's dipstick had the S turns in it.  I have flattened them out which makes the dipstick longer and allows me to use the original marks for full/add while having the oil level a bit lower.  It also makes it less likely the oil level will be off the end of the dipstick.  When that happens, you don't know how much to add.



Steve

N1BZRich(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 4:11 pm Post subject: Oil Burn

In a message dated 7/4/2009 7:12:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  sRoydSmith(at)hotmail.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  nice    looking plane you have there.

	


 

 Thanks, Steve,

     Our EAA chapter built a 601XL (N156WT) that has a  3300 Jab on it.  Has been flying a little over two years and I think it has  about 250 hours on it.  I will have to ask the current owners about their  oil usage.  

 Blue Skies,

 Buz

 Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill.

  [quote][b]

Iberplanes

Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 174
Location: Igualada - Barcelona - Spain

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:05 am Post subject: Oil Burn

Hi Stephen, 



What´s the prop you are using? and what cruse speed do you get at 2450-2500? 



Please, let me know. 

Alberto Martin

www.iberplanes.es

Igualada - Barcelona - Spain

 

----------------------------------------------

Zodiac 601 XL Builder

Serial: 6-7011



Tail Kit: Finished

Wings: Not Started

Fuselage: (at) home

Engine: Jabiru 3300

  [quote][b]

_________________
Alberto Martin
601 XL - Jabiru 3300
http://www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain

Stephen Smith

Joined: 02 Jul 2009
Posts: 13
Location: Santa Rosa, CA

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:22 am Post subject: Re: Oil Burn

Hello Alberto,



I have the Sensenich composite ground-adjustable prop. 



I have about 400 hours of flight data that I can analyze.  



Looking back through about the most recent 140 hours of data selected for 2,500 RPM at 2,000 feet I see 9 hours at 105 MPH average ground speed, 101 MPH average indicated airspeed.



Steve



---------------------------------------------



Hi Stephen, 



Whatï¿½s the prop you are using? and what cruse speed do you get at 2450-2500? 



Please, let me know. 

Alberto Martin

www.iberplanes.es

Igualada - Barcelona - Spain

 

----------------------------------------------

Zodiac 601 XL Builder

Serial: 6-7011



Tail Kit: Finished

Wings: Not Started

Fuselage: (at) home

Engine: Jabiru 3300

Clive J

Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 340
Location: UK

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:44 am Post subject: Oil Burn

My 2200a uses a squirt or two every three hours. I've never measured it

accurately but I suspect a quart about over 20 hours or maybe less.

It's done 1100 hrs now, it #596 and is on 15w50. Changing oil types

never made a difference so I stick to multi grade all year. It's always

used the same amount so I suspect it's burning it via the bores.



The compressions were always disappointing prior to the new heads at

1004 hrs and now they are great though the prices I paid where

astronomic. 



Chucking it about makes what's in the bottle worse, though there's never

that much, recently I've routed the hose up higher via a loop of scat

tube to run it to the highest point in the cowls that this seems to have

made a minor improvement. Only done about 10 hours since so maybe just

me being optimistic.



My 3300 uses about the same as the 2200 but that's only done 15 hours

and I'm hoping this will improve. There was a 2200a in our hangar that

was about #900 and that never used a drop. The 3300 that I looked after

until it was sold had 300 hrs on it and it uses about the same as the

others mentioned above.



Regards, Clive



--

dons701

Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 80
Location: Hershey, PA

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:58 am Post subject: Re: Oil Burn

While I am new to the 2200A I have worked with many other types of piston engines, racing and others. The 2200A is interesting in that there seems to be no real control of oil mist and crankcase pressure, i.e. collective combustion leakage past the rings normally found in all running piston engines. I have not removed the oil pan but, according to the engine parts manuals there is no crank scraper or windage tray as found in many race engines to control the oil mist wrapped around a spinning crankshaft. This crankcase pressure with mist and oil splatter obviously makes it's way out of the engine by using the dipstick tube / oil vent hose. A system that reduces or eliminates any liquid oil from making it's way out of the engine, allowing only "dry" normal combustion pressure to be relieved, would be optimal. Separating oil from the air would need to be done in stages by mechanically removing as much oil mist as possible from the spinning crank as said earlier, with scrappers and or a windage tray similar to any common race engine. Even a number of circular fine mesh screens situated on the dipstick might baffle the liquid oil but still allow gasses to escape.

   In the end, the true amount of oil actually being burned in the normal combustion process would be known.

    The ultimate goal would not only be to eliminate the oil collection bottle and retain oil in the engine, but would be to create a negative pressure in the crankcase as this would increase power by making the rings seal more efficiently.  Initially as time allows, i will experiment with the dipstick baffle modification and later, a way of creating crankcase vacuum utilizing exhaust velocity in the exhaust pipe and report back on this site.

    I know there are many creative people on this site that might have already figured out some of these issues, or have better ideas   . If I am missing something or I am not correct let me and others know, lets learn together for the benefit of all. Thanks for reading, Don

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:38 am Post subject: Oil Burn

Well, one thing different from normal (to me anyway) racing engines  

that I've worked on, is that the crank isn't down near the oil in the  

pan, so no need...that I can see...for a windage tray. The "wind"  

just doesn't blow over the oil as it does in a V8, for example. The  

cam is between the spinning crank and the oil...approximately 4-6  

inches away...and also, the speed of the crank is way below the  

normal racing engine, so I doubt that a windage tray would help much.

Since I removed my fuel pump and blocked the hole with a flat metal  

plate, I've been thinking of maybe using that hole to get a little  

more breathing area for the engine, but haven't moved past the  

thinking stage.



It would be interesting to install a window in the oil pan and see  

what goes on in there, oilwise, at 3000 or so rpm.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 695.8 hrs

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Status: flying





On Jul 6, 2009, at 10:58 AM, dons701 wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <burdon1(at)comcast.net>



 While I am new to the 2200A I have worked with many other types of  

 piston engines, racing and others. The 2200A is interesting in that  

 there seems to be no real control of oil mist and crankcase  

 pressure, i.e. collective combustion leakage past the rings  

 normally found in all running piston engines. I have not removed  

 the oil pan but, according to the engine parts manuals there is no  

 crank scraper or windage tray as found in many race engines to  

 control the oil mist wrapped around a spinning crankshaft. This  

 crankcase pressure with mist and oil splatter obviously makes it's  

 way out of the engine by using the dipstick tube / oil vent hose. A  

 system that reduces or eliminates any liquid oil from making it's  

 way out of the engine, allowing only "dry" normal combustion  

 pressure to be relieved, would be optimal. Separating oil from the  

 air would need to be done in stages by mechanically removing as  

 much oil mist as possible from the spinning crank as said earlier,  

 with scrappers !

  and or a windage tray similar to any common race engine. Even a  

 number of circular fine mesh screens situated on the dipstick might  

 baffle the liquid oil but still allow gasses to escape.

     The ultimate goal would not only be to eliminate the oil  

 collection bottle and retain oil in the engine, but would be to  

 create a negative pressure in the crankcase as this would increase  

 power by making the rings seal more efficiently.  Initially as time  

 allows, i will experiment with the dipstick baffle modification and  

 later, a way of creating crankcase vacuum utilizing exhaust  

 velocity in the exhaust pipe and report back on this site.

     I know there are many creative people on this site that might  

 have already figured out some of these issues, or have better  

 ideas   . If I am missing something or I am not correct let me  

 and others know, lets learn together for the benefit of all. Thanks  

 for reading, Don





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 51750#251750

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

dons701

Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 80
Location: Hershey, PA

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:24 am Post subject: Re: Oil Burn

Good point, the further the oil surface is away from the crank the better. But, as long as oil is squirting from all the rods and mains while spinning at any RPM there will be oil churning around down there.  Any amount of oil making it's way out of the vent hose is too much.  Yes, it would be interesting just to be able to remove the dipstick while the engine is running (without the prop blast), I know I would not want to be looking to close down the dipstick tube.      Thanks, Don

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:39 pm Post subject: Oil Burn

Yes....you might get more than an eyefull. : )



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 695.8 hrs

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Status: flying

do not archive



On Jul 6, 2009, at 2:24 PM, dons701 wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <burdon1(at)comcast.net>



 Good point, the further the oil surface is away from the crank the  

 better. But, as long as oil is squirting from all the rods and  

 mains while spinning at any RPM there will be oil churning around  

 down there.  Any amount of oil making it's way out of the vent hose  

 is too much.  Yes, it would be interesting just to be able to  

 remove the dipstick while the engine is running (without the prop  

 blast), I know I would not want to be looking to close down the  

 dipstick tube.   [Laughing]   Thanks, Don





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 51807#251807

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

zeprep251(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:13 pm Post subject: Oil Burn

Lynn,

  I believe the later engines have a deeper oil pan to relieve the problem. G.Aman

 

   

 

   

 

 --

checkpoint2(at)COMCAST.NE
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:19 pm Post subject: Oil Burn

Vent the oil separator back to the sump via a three way fitting at the sump

drain. No spots on my hanger floor at 333.8 Hobbs time. Bob Haas N380BH.



--

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