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rebrunk42(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:19 pm Post subject: RV10 windshield crazing

Windshield crazing took over my airplane inthe last two weeks for no  

reason I can determine . The windshield is fiberglassed in place. It  

has been very hot . I use a car window inside shade. I will need to  

replace it . Any ideas? Robert Brunkenhoefer  N661G Corpus Christi,Texas



Sent from my iPhone



Robert E. Brunkenhoefer

Brunkenhoefer Law Firm, P.C.

520 Lawrence St.

Corpus Christi, Texas 78401

Phone: 361-888-8808

Facsimile: 361-888-6753

robert(at)brunklaw.com



On Jul 2, 2009, at 1:07 AM, Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Dear Listers,



 Please read over the RV10-List Usage Guidelines below.  The complete

 RV10-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the

 following URL:



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 Thank you,



 Matt Dralle

 Matronics Email List Administrator





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 The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the RV10-List.

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 [This is an automated posting.]



 do not archive

jcumins(at)jcis.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:55 pm Post subject: RV10 windshield crazing

It starting to look like the reflector you are using on the inside of the

window. Here in Northern Ca with heat in the 100's quiet often, a lot of

people use covers and not heat shields.  That might be better.  Check the

net a lot of people make great covers, but there not cheap.



John G. Cumins

President

 

JC'S Interactive Systems

2499 B1 Martin Rd

Fairfield Ca 94533

707-425-7100

707-425-7576 Fax

 

Your Total Technology Solution Provider

--

rebrunk42(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 3:40 pm Post subject: RV10 windshield crazing

i have a great cover but on these 2 trips did not use it . can heat  

alone do this?

On Jul 5, 2009, at 5:53 PM, John Cumins wrote:



[quote] 



 It starting to look like the reflector you are using on the inside  

 of the

 window. Here in Northern Ca with heat in the 100's quiet often, a  

 lot of

 people use covers and not heat shields.  That might be better.   

 Check the

 net a lot of people make great covers, but there not cheap.



 John G. Cumins

 President



 JC'S Interactive Systems

 2499 B1 Martin Rd

 Fairfield Ca 94533

 707-425-7100

 707-425-7576 Fax



 Your Total Technology Solution Provider

 --

rebrunk42(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 3:44 pm Post subject: RV10 windshield crazing

what is the composition of our stock vans windshield/? can crazing be  

repaired/ robert

On Jul 5, 2009, at 5:53 PM, John Cumins wrote:



[quote] 



 It starting to look like the reflector you are using on the inside  

 of the

 window. Here in Northern Ca with heat in the 100's quiet often, a  

 lot of

 people use covers and not heat shields.  That might be better.   

 Check the

 net a lot of people make great covers, but there not cheap.



 John G. Cumins

 President



 JC'S Interactive Systems

 2499 B1 Martin Rd

 Fairfield Ca 94533

 707-425-7100

 707-425-7576 Fax



 Your Total Technology Solution Provider

 --

pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 4:38 pm Post subject: RV10 windshield crazing

I would suspect some chemical "outgassing" from the automobile window shade

you are using.  Years ago a medical device my company made had a rash of

cracks on a battery door, all from the southwestern states and only in the

summer time.  It turned out to be caused by the foam in the packing cases

outgassing a chemical that attacked the polycarbonate.  Plexiglas (acrylic)

is notoriously sensitive to certain chemcials, such as isopropyl alchohol,

and can crack at stress levels far below what it would take to crack it in

the absence of such agents.



Jack Phillips

#40610

Wings



--

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 4:55 pm Post subject: RV10 windshield crazing

I don't know for sure, but it's probably acrylic (read plexiglas).  

Almost all windshields are made from acrylic because it retains it's 

clarity when being formed.



Crazing is small cracks in the interior of the acrylic.  No fix for 

crazing.  I think crazing is due to large temp differences between the 

surfaces and/or temp cycling.  Acrylics become brittle with age.



Acrylics can be bonded together ..... you can 'fix' a crack and it will 

be structurally sound but the line will still be there although fainter 

than the crack.



Robert Brunkenhoefer wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <rebrunk42(at)gmail.com>



 what is the composition of our stock vans windshield/? can crazing be 

 repaired/ robert

 On Jul 5, 2009, at 5:53 PM, John Cumins wrote:

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:07 pm Post subject: RV10 windshield crazing

One chemical I doubt Plexiglass is sensitive to is isopropyl alcohol. On my Mooney the non-hardening PRC1428 (or CS3330) is used for sealing the windows, and excess is cleaned off with isopropyl alcohol in copious quantities. I did that in 2003, no signs of any distress since. More likely problems with what is combined with isopropyl, rather than using the pure product.

 

On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 5:30 PM, Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net (pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:

[quote] --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net (pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net)>

 

 I would suspect some chemical "outgassing" from the automobile window shade

 you are using.  Years ago a medical device my company made had a rash of

 cracks on a battery door, all from the southwestern states and only in the

 summer time.  It turned out to be caused by the foam in the packing cases

 outgassing a chemical that attacked the polycarbonate.  Plexiglas (acrylic)

 is notoriously sensitive to certain chemcials, such as isopropyl alchohol,

 and can crack at stress levels far below what it would take to crack it in

 the absence of such agents.

 

 Jack Phillips

 #40610

 Wings

 

 --

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:45 pm Post subject: RV10 windshield crazing

I was just saying that isopropyl alcohol is ONE of many chemicals that can attack acrylics.  I just retired from a medical device company, and I can assure your that our valves, made of an acrylic plastic, crack very readily if hospital nurses swab them with isopropyl alcohol.  There are many different acrylics, Plexiglas or Lustran being just a couple, but all of them are more or less susceptible to attack by various chemicals.  Since this crazing occurred during hot weather conditions, and high temperatures can make some substances outgas I am suggesting that this might have caused the crazing.  I’ve seen it happen before.  It could be from the sunshades, or the carpet or any of a number of items.  Did you ever notice the film that gets deposited on the inside of your car’s windshield in the summer?  Many components in automobiles used to be made of vinyl, and the plasticizers added to make the vinyl flexible would outgas in hot weather and make a film on the windshield.  

   

Jack  Phillips  

Raleigh, NC  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen

 Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 9:00 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: RV10 windshield crazing  

  

   

One chemical I doubt Plexiglass is sensitive to is isopropyl alcohol. On my Mooney the non-hardening PRC1428 (or CS3330) is used for sealing the windows, and excess is cleaned off with isopropyl alcohol in copious quantities. I did that in 2003, no signs of any distress since. More likely problems with what is combined with isopropyl, rather than using the pure product.    

On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 5:30 PM, Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net (pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:  

--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jack  Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net (pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net)>

 

 I would suspect some chemical "outgassing" from the automobile window shade

 you are using.  Years ago a medical device my company made had a rash of

 cracks on a battery door, all from the southwestern states and only in the

 summer time.  It turned out to be caused by the foam in the packing cases

 outgassing a chemical that attacked the polycarbonate.  Plexiglas (acrylic)

 is notoriously sensitive to certain chemcials, such as isopropyl alchohol,

 and can crack at stress levels far below what it would take to crack it in

 the absence of such agents.

 

 Jack Phillips

 #40610

 Wings    



 --

rebrunk42(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:52 pm Post subject: RV10 windshield crazing

You make a very good point. I will look for things that coud hve caused this problem.



Sent from my iPhone



Robert E. Brunkenhoefer

Brunkenhoefer Law Firm, P.C. 

520 Lawrence St. 

Corpus Christi, Texas 78401

Phone: 361-888-8808

Facsimile: 361-888-6753

robert(at)brunklaw.com (robert(at)brunklaw.com)

On Jul 5, 2009, at 8:40 PM, "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net (pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:



[quote]         st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }  <![endif]-->           

I was just saying that isopropyl alcohol is ONE of many chemicals that can attack acrylics.  I just retired from a medical device company, and I can assure your that our valves, made of an acrylic plastic, crack very readily if hospital nurses swab them with isopropyl alcohol.  There are many different acrylics, Plexiglas or Lustran being just a couple, but all of them are more or less susceptible to attack by various chemicals.  Since this crazing occurred during hot weather conditions, and high temperatures can make some substances outgas I am suggesting that this might have caused the crazing.  Iâ€™ve seen it happen before.  It could be from the sunshades, or the carpet or any of a number of items.  Did you ever notice the film that gets deposited on the inside of your carâ€™s windshield in the summer?  Many components in automobiles used to be made of vinyl, and the plasticizers added to make the vinyl flexible would outgas in hot weather and make a film on the windshield.  

   

Jack  Phillips  

Raleigh, NC  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen

 Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 9:00 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: Re: RV10 windshield crazing  

  

   

One chemical I doubt Plexiglass is sensitive to is isopropyl alcohol. On my Mooney the non-hardening PRC1428 (or CS3330) is used for sealing the windows, and excess is cleaned off with isopropyl alcohol in copious quantities. I did that in 2003, no signs of any distress since. More likely problems with what is combined with isopropyl, rather than using the pure product.    

On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 5:30 PM, Jack Phillips <[url=mailto:pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net]pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net (pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net)[/url]> wrote:  

--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jack  Phillips" <[url=mailto:pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net]pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net (pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net)[/url]>

 

 I would suspect some chemical "outgassing" from the automobile window shade

 you are using.  Years ago a medical device my company made had a rash of

 cracks on a battery door, all from the southwestern states and only in the

 summer time.  It turned out to be caused by the foam in the packing cases

 outgassing a chemical that attacked the polycarbonate.  Plexiglas (acrylic)

 is notoriously sensitive to certain chemcials, such as isopropyl alchohol,

 and can crack at stress levels far below what it would take to crack it in

 the absence of such agents.

 

 Jack Phillips

 #40610

 Wings    



 --

rebrunk42(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:53 pm Post subject: RV10 windshield crazing

Good info.I now need to find a replacement and an installer. Ideas? 

suggestions?

Sent from my iPhone

Robert E. Brunkenhoefer

Brunkenhoefer Law Firm, P.C.

520 Lawrence St.

Corpus Christi, Texas 78401

Phone: 361-888-8808

Facsimile: 361-888-6753

robert(at)brunklaw.com

On Jul 5, 2009, at 7:53 PM, Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>  

wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 >

 I don't know for sure, but it's probably acrylic (read plexiglas).   

 Almost all windshields are made from acrylic because it retains it's  

 clarity when being formed.

 Crazing is small cracks in the interior of the acrylic.  No fix for  

 crazing.  I think crazing is due to large temp differences between  

 the surfaces and/or temp cycling.  Acrylics become brittle with age.

 Acrylics can be bonded together ..... you can 'fix' a crack and it  

 will be structurally sound but the line will still be there although  

 fainter than the crack.

 Robert Brunkenhoefer wrote:

> 

> >

>

> what is the composition of our stock vans windshield/? can crazing  

> be repaired/ robert

> On Jul 5, 2009, at 5:53 PM, John Cumins wrote:

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:16 pm Post subject: RV10 windshield crazing

I was going to say basically the same thing.  I think Jack may

be on to something.



As for the crazing, you could have any number of things in the

plane that could outgas in the heat. My wife's newer car

windshield gets coated with a pretty thick hazy film in the

heat, from the plasticisers offgassing.  My older cars get

it too, but the older the car the less the film buildup.

They say that cars are actually a pretty toxic environment

for the first couple years. (Guess I should be glad I

pretty much drive beaters)  So with new carpet, vinyl,

leather softners on the seats, glareshield vinyl, or

many of the things people put in the planes, it's possible

that during the heat some chemicals built up on the windshield.

And perhaps using a sunshield (which does a great job reflecting

some of the heat to keep the plane a little cooler) made it

worse.  If some of that light reflected back against the

windshield, the interior of the plane may be pretty cool, but

the plexi temp might have actually been HIGHER than it would

have been if there weren't any sun shield in there.



I can also tell you that over the past couple years

I've used spring-open sun-shades from walmart, fold open silver ones

from walmart, and used my cabin cover.  I have the tiniest scratches

on the inside of my windshield now from using the sunshades.  I thought

that they would be soft enough to not do anything, but I don't believe

that was the case...just putting them in and out maybe 6 times a year

for the first couple years seems to have left scratches, so now I'm

more inclined to just use a full thin travel cabin cover. The one

I got from Abby is white so reflects the sun well, and it's black

and sun proof on the inside.  If the windshield is going to be

scratched, I'd rather have it scratched on the outside where it's

easy to buff out with micromesh.  Also, the cabin cover would

keep the light from passing through the plexi and being reflected

back at it...so perhaps a cabin cover is the safer way to go

for your plexi.

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD



Jack Phillips wrote:

[quote] I was just saying that isopropyl alcohol is ONE of many chemicals that 

 can attack acrylics.  I just retired from a medical device company, and 

 I can assure your that our valves, made of an acrylic plastic, crack 

 very readily if hospital nurses swab them with isopropyl alcohol.  There 

 are many different acrylics, Plexiglas or Lustran being just a couple, 

 but all of them are more or less susceptible to attack by various 

 chemicals.  Since this crazing occurred during hot weather conditions, 

 and high temperatures can make some substances outgas I am suggesting 

 that this might have caused the crazing.  I’ve seen it happen before.  

 It could be from the sunshades, or the carpet or any of a number of 

 items.  Did you ever notice the film that gets deposited on the inside 

 of your car’s windshield in the summer?  Many components in automobiles 

 used to be made of vinyl, and the plasticizers added to make the vinyl 

 flexible would outgas in hot weather and make a film on the windshield.

 

  

 

 Jack Phillips

 

 Raleigh, NC

 

  

 

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com 

 [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Kelly McMullen

 *Sent:* Sunday, July 05, 2009 9:00 PM

 *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 *Subject:* Re: Re: RV10 windshield crazing

 

  

 

 One chemical I doubt Plexiglass is sensitive to is isopropyl alcohol. On 

 my Mooney the non-hardening PRC1428 (or CS3330) is used for sealing the 

 windows, and excess is cleaned off with isopropyl alcohol in copious 

 quantities. I did that in 2003, no signs of any distress since. More 

 likely problems with what is combined with isopropyl, rather than using 

 the pure product.

 

 On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 5:30 PM, Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net 

 <mailto:pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>> wrote:

 

 

 <mailto:pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net>>

 

 I would suspect some chemical "outgassing" from the automobile window shade

 you are using.  Years ago a medical device my company made had a rash of

 cracks on a battery door, all from the southwestern states and only in the

 summer time.  It turned out to be caused by the foam in the packing cases

 outgassing a chemical that attacked the polycarbonate.  Plexiglas (acrylic)

 is notoriously sensitive to certain chemcials, such as isopropyl alchohol,

 and can crack at stress levels far below what it would take to crack it in

 the absence of such agents.

 

 Jack Phillips

 #40610

 Wings

 

 

 --

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:21 pm Post subject: RV10 windshield crazing

Van's should be able to sell you a windshield easy enough,

and then it's just a matter of grinding it away and re-doing

all that pain in the butt work you had to do the first time.

So it shouldn't be too hard to do if you've done one before,

just time consuming.  I was just looking at mine yesterday,

pondering how I'd go about repainting if I ever had to

replace the windshield.  I think I could get by with

repainting maybe a pint or quart's worth of paint, just

doing down to the upper forward fuselage seam, to the

firewall, and on the top going back to the door hinges or

so.  The repainting is the part I'd find the worst part

of the job.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

do not archive

Robert Brunkenhoefer wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Good info.I now need to find a replacement and an installer. 

 Ideas?suggestions?

 

 Sent from my iPhone

 

 Robert E. Brunkenhoefer

 Brunkenhoefer Law Firm, P.C.

 520 Lawrence St.

 Corpus Christi, Texas 78401

 Phone: 361-888-8808

 Facsimile: 361-888-6753

 robert(at)brunklaw.com

 

 On Jul 5, 2009, at 7:53 PM, Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:

 

> 

>

> I don't know for sure, but it's probably acrylic (read plexiglas).  

> Almost all windshields are made from acrylic because it retains it's 

> clarity when being formed.

>

> Crazing is small cracks in the interior of the acrylic.  No fix for 

> crazing.  I think crazing is due to large temp differences between the 

> surfaces and/or temp cycling.  Acrylics become brittle with age.

>

> Acrylics can be bonded together ..... you can 'fix' a crack and it 

> will be structurally sound but the line will still be there although 

> fainter than the crack.

>

> Robert Brunkenhoefer wrote:

>> 

>> <rebrunk42(at)gmail.com>

>>

>> what is the composition of our stock vans windshield/? can crazing be 

>> repaired/ robert

>> On Jul 5, 2009, at 5:53 PM, John Cumins wrote:

>

robin1(at)mrmoisture.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:41 pm Post subject: RV10 windshield crazing

This thread has taken a turn for the worse. I don't even want to think

about replacing any windows at this point.

Find out what the cause is but unless it's really bad live with it. 



Robin



--

n223rv(at)wolflakeairport
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:20 pm Post subject: RV10 windshield crazing

I had to remove one last year, used a router with the bit properly set  

and it actually came out fairly easily.  Made a big mess, but the new  

one went in much faster than the first one...



Sent from my iPhone



On Jul 5, 2009, at 11:16 PM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Van's should be able to sell you a windshield easy enough,

 and then it's just a matter of grinding it away and re-doing

 all that pain in the butt work you had to do the first time.

 So it shouldn't be too hard to do if you've done one before,

 just time consuming.  I was just looking at mine yesterday,

 pondering how I'd go about repainting if I ever had to

 replace the windshield.  I think I could get by with

 repainting maybe a pint or quart's worth of paint, just

 doing down to the upper forward fuselage seam, to the

 firewall, and on the top going back to the door hinges or

 so.  The repainting is the part I'd find the worst part

 of the job.



 Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

 do not archive

 Robert Brunkenhoefer wrote:

> 

> >

> Good info.I now need to find a replacement and an installer. Ideas? 

> suggestions?

> Sent from my iPhone

> Robert E. Brunkenhoefer

> Brunkenhoefer Law Firm, P.C.

> 520 Lawrence St.

> Corpus Christi, Texas 78401

> Phone: 361-888-8808

> Facsimile: 361-888-6753

> robert(at)brunklaw.com

> On Jul 5, 2009, at 7:53 PM, Linn Walters  

> <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:

>> 

>> >

>>

>> I don't know for sure, but it's probably acrylic (read  

>> plexiglas).  Almost all windshields are made from acrylic because  

>> it retains it's clarity when being formed.

>>

>> Crazing is small cracks in the interior of the acrylic.  No fix  

>> for crazing.  I think crazing is due to large temp differences  

>> between the surfaces and/or temp cycling.  Acrylics become brittle  

>> with age.

>>

>> Acrylics can be bonded together ..... you can 'fix' a crack and it  

>> will be structurally sound but the line will still be there  

>> although fainter than the crack.

>>

>> Robert Brunkenhoefer wrote:

>>> 

>>> >

>>>

>>> what is the composition of our stock vans windshield/? can  

>>> crazing be repaired/ robert

>>> On Jul 5, 2009, at 5:53 PM, John Cumins wrote:

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

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