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tigeryak18t
Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 233
Location: PARIS FRANCE
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 Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:30 pm Post subject: strange behavior of braking system |
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Hello to all,
first of all I must tell you that I had a very good day together with my friend Christophe Bourillon owner of a superb YAK18T (see the picture attached). As you can see the weather in Normandy France, was.....not very good today but we, yakees, use to fly nearly anytime...that's a joke of course. If you read this Christophe thanks for this very nice day.
My question is regarding the 52 braking system. Sometime, with not any particular reason, when I try to brake after landing and during taxying, I pull the brake and nothing happen. I can hear the hiss of air but no braking (or very inneficient) then after pumping a few time braking comes back. I was wondering if this could have any link with the Brake Reduction Valve or anything else??
Has anyone experimented such behavior?
Thanks for your help
Didier 18T HA-JAC
52 RA1006K
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_________________
Didier Tiger YAK18T
Member of Commemorative Air Force
French Wing |
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dougsappllc(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:01 am Post subject: strange behavior of braking system |
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Didier,It could be one of maybe 4 things:
- You are not getting the proper amount of air volume or pressure out of the QS-1valve, in "CJ speak" this is the valve which reduces the amount of air pressure and sends it on to the QS2 which is responsible for breaking, both differential and straight ahead.
- The QS2 has bad seals or is full of corrosion. Again, QS-1 and QS-2 are CJ6 P/N's, but I am pretty sire that the inner workings all utilize the same parts.
- Your brake pads or drums are very badly worn. (again same as CJ6)
- You have a leak in BOTH of your brake bladders, which is highly unlikely. (also same as CJ6)
Unless you have recently replaced/overhauled this portion of your air system my guess would be that your QS-1 and QS-2 valves are in need of replacement or overhaul. Knowing that the 52 does not have a water filter in the air system I suspect that you will find that the internal parts are pretty nasty.
I carry both the QS-1 and QS-2 overhaul kits as well as the water filter mod in inventory, please contact me off list to order.
Always Yakin,
Doug
On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 1:30 PM, tigeryak18t <didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com (didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Yak-List message posted by: "tigeryak18t" <didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com (didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com)>
Hello to all,
first of all I must tell you that I had a very good day together with my friend Christophe Bourillon owner of a superb YAK18T (see the picture attached). As you can see the weather in Normandy France, was.....not very good today but we, yakees, use to fly nearly anytime...that's a joke of course. If you read this Christophe thanks for this very nice day.
My question is regarding the 52 braking system. Sometime, with not any particular reason, when I try to brake after landing and during taxying, I pull the brake and nothing happen. I can hear the hiss of air but no braking (or very inneficient) then after pumping a few time braking comes back. I was wondering if this could have any link with the Brake Reduction Valve or anything else??
Has anyone experimented such behavior?
Thanks for your help
Didier 18T HA-JAC
52 RA1006K
--------
Didier Tiger YAK18T
Member of Commemorative Air Force
French Wing
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Maybe life is not the party that we were expecting,
but in the mean time, we're here and we can still dance....."
Douglas Sapp
Doug Sapp LLC
18B Riverview Road
Omak WA 98841
PH 509-826-4610
Fax 509-826-3644
[quote][b]
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 4:57 pm Post subject: strange behavior of braking system |
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Glad you jumped in on this one Doug. I'm certain Didier should overhaul both the brake reducing valve and the brake differential valve. He also needs prop hub seals as well.
Dennis
[quote] ---
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tigeryak18t
Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 233
Location: PARIS FRANCE
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:56 am Post subject: strange behavior of braking system |
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Deniss, Doug,
what you are both saying goes in the same way. I will have a look and seeif it can be overhauled. I did a complete overhaul of the uplock cylinders both on my 18T and 52. Three on six did look really really bad and needed a complete overhaul.
I will asap have a look on the valves QS1 and 2.
Doug I will contact you in private for a quote.
Still there is a remaining question concerning the foam floater of the fuel gauge....any idea??
Thanks very much to all and have a great day
Didier
2009/11/1 doug sapp <dougsappllc(at)gmail.com (dougsappllc(at)gmail.com)>
| Quote: | Didier, It could be one of maybe 4 things:
- You are not getting the proper amount of air volume or pressure out of the QS-1valve, in "CJ speak" this is the valve which reduces the amount of air pressure and sends it on to the QS2 which is responsible for breaking, both differential and straight ahead.
- The QS2 has bad seals or is full of corrosion. Again, QS-1 and QS-2 are CJ6 P/N's, but I am pretty sire that the inner workings all utilize the same parts.
- Your brake pads or drums are very badly worn. (again same as CJ6)
- You have a leak in BOTH of your brake bladders, which is highly unlikely. (also same as CJ6)
Unless you have recently replaced/overhauled this portion of your air system my guess would be that your QS-1 and QS-2 valves are in need of replacement or overhaul. Knowing that the 52 does not have a water filter in the air system I suspect that you will find that the internal parts are pretty nasty.
I carry both the QS-1 and QS-2 overhaul kits as well as the water filter mod in inventory, please contact me off list to order.
Always Yakin,
Doug
On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 1:30 PM, tigeryak18t <didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com (didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
--
Maybe life is not the party that we were expecting,
but in the mean time, we're here and we can still dance....."
Douglas Sapp
Doug Sapp LLC
18B Riverview Road
Omak WA 98841
PH 509-826-4610
Fax 509-826-3644
|
--
Didier BLOUZARD
didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com (didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com)
0624243672
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
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_________________
Didier Tiger YAK18T
Member of Commemorative Air Force
French Wing |
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dougsappllc(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:56 am Post subject: strange behavior of braking system |
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Didier,I have never seen a foam fuel sender float "water-logged" or more correctly "fuel-logged". This was a problem in the early metal floats, but not the closed cell foam units. I would suspect the windings in the sender before I suspected the float. I carry both the senders and the floats in stock if you need them.
All orders off line please.
Doug
On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 6:24 AM, Didier Blouzard <didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com (didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Deniss, Doug,
what you are both saying goes in the same way. I will have a look and seeif it can be overhauled. I did a complete overhaul of the uplock cylinders both on my 18T and 52. Three on six did look really really bad and needed a complete overhaul.
I will asap have a look on the valves QS1 and 2.
Doug I will contact you in private for a quote.
Still there is a remaining question concerning the foam floater of the fuel gauge....any idea??
Thanks very much to all and have a great day
Didier
2009/11/1 doug sapp <dougsappllc(at)gmail.com (dougsappllc(at)gmail.com)>
| Quote: |
Didier, It could be one of maybe 4 things:
- You are not getting the proper amount of air volume or pressure out of the QS-1valve, in "CJ speak" this is the valve which reduces the amount of air pressure and sends it on to the QS2 which is responsible for breaking, both differential and straight ahead.
- The QS2 has bad seals or is full of corrosion. Again, QS-1 and QS-2 are CJ6 P/N's, but I am pretty sire that the inner workings all utilize the same parts.
- Your brake pads or drums are very badly worn. (again same as CJ6)
- You have a leak in BOTH of your brake bladders, which is highly unlikely. (also same as CJ6)
Unless you have recently replaced/overhauled this portion of your air system my guess would be that your QS-1 and QS-2 valves are in need of replacement or overhaul. Knowing that the 52 does not have a water filter in the air system I suspect that you will find that the internal parts are pretty nasty.
I carry both the QS-1 and QS-2 overhaul kits as well as the water filter mod in inventory, please contact me off list to order.
Always Yakin,
Doug
On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 1:30 PM, tigeryak18t <didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com (didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
--
Maybe life is not the party that we were expecting,
but in the mean time, we're here and we can still dance....."
Douglas Sapp
Doug Sapp LLC
18B Riverview Road
Omak WA 98841
PH 509-826-4610
Fax 509-826-3644
|
--
Didier BLOUZARD
(didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com)didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com (didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com)
0624243672
|
--
Maybe life is not the party that we were expecting,
but in the mean time, we're here and we can still dance....."
Douglas Sapp
Doug Sapp LLC
18B Riverview Road
Omak WA 98841
PH 509-826-4610
Fax 509-826-3644
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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vectorwarbirds(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:14 pm Post subject: strange behavior of braking system |
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Gang,
Well I have, Johns Yak 18T had one. If you submerged it in fuel it sank to the bottom or about half way. Don't know if this was something in the Russian fuel or what but once replaced the gauge worked normally. So pretty easy to check, just take it out , off the arm and drop it in fuel. Just don't let it sit around and dry out before you test it.
TGB
--
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Vic
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 116
Location: Southern Bavaria
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:25 pm Post subject: Re: strange behavior of braking system |
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Hello,
once again, there is most likely no problem with the resistor windings, as this can be checked by moving the float lever by hand, when you take out the sender unit from the wing tank and check the readings in the cockpit. You will find "full" when the lever is up and "empty" when you drop the lever. And at intermediate positions of the lever you will have corresponding readings in the cockpit. Of course it is not a bad idea to open the sender unit cover and clean the windings in the area where the contact finger moves.
The foam float definitely shrinks or soaks at the same time in fuel. I don´t know if that is true for avgas use only, but I found the same problem on our 18T after some years with mainly auto fuel use. The Yak was John Scarborough´s from Lincolnshire.
One temporary repair is to add a very light spring to the lever to compensate the loss of lift following shrinkage/soaking of the float.
kind regards
Vic
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dougsappllc(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:02 pm Post subject: strange behavior of braking system |
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TGB in Bunnutopia,
I wonder if funky Russian auto fuel is the culprit? I have never seen this happen (yet) in CJ floats.
Is the CJ sender and float interchangeable with the 18T?
Doug
On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 1:06 PM, <vectorwarbirds(at)aol.com (vectorwarbirds(at)aol.com)> wrote:
[quote] Gang,
Well I have, Johns Yak 18T had one. If you submerged it in fuel it sank to the bottom or about half way. Don't know if this was something in the Russian fuel or what but once replaced the gauge worked normally. So pretty easy to check, just take it out , off the arm and drop it in fuel. Just don't let it sit around and dry out before you test it.
TGB
--
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
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vectorwarbirds(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:09 pm Post subject: strange behavior of braking system |
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You know Doug I think it was, kinda different shape and I think a different color as well but I know we didn't have a Yak float laying around! So yep I think it was a CJ float. It was weird but you could feel the Yak float was heavier and then it sank in the fuel. It was just in from Russia so it had to be running on Russia vodka for some time!
TGB
--
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