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off topic WAS Date time note

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Rex Hefferan

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 147
Location: Olney Springs, Colorado USA "NOT a Kitpig"

Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 5:22 am Post subject: off topic WAS Date time note

Here's something that I sometimes wonder about. For the listers whom 

English is not their primary language.



Sometimes we send messages which have misspellngs, slang terms or 

gramatical errors. Do these cause much difficulty interpreting? I've 

been told that English (American) is often the easiest language to 

communicate with because the intended thought can usually be translated 

even if not precisely or correctly expressed. Are other languages not so 

forgiving in usage?



Rex - (having some knowledge of German and Spanish)

Florida

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Rex
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Colorado

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:56 am Post subject: off topic WAS Date time note

On Apr 14, 2006, at 3:21 PM, Rex wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Here's something that I sometimes wonder about. For the listers whom

 English is not their primary language.


	


Please, allow me.

English is not the "easiest language to communicate" for one good 

reason: It has the largest vocabulary of all languages. More words 

equal more to learn, equal more difficult to learn, isn't it?

However, having French as mother tongue and Norwegian as my everyday's 

language, English is easy for me. Let me demonstrate with these words: 

Oxford University.



Now, this is the oldest university in Europe. It was built in a place 

where the river Thames was so narrow that an ox could ford over the 

river, hence: Oxford. In Norwegian: Oks ferd. English is an Anglo-Saxon 

language, from the people who inhabited the south of Denmark and north 

of Germany. Norwegian is a Danish dialect.

"University" on the other hand, is a Latin name that came into the 

English language via French and the Norman invasion. About half of the 

English language has a French/Latin origin.



Take the following sentence: A case of non-assistance to a person in 

danger. Now, in French: "Un cas de non-assistance a une personne en 

danger." Pretty much the same, isn't it?



So, for me English is easy and, I guess, somewhat easy for anyone 

speaking a German or Latin language. But it must be, in my humble 

opinion, difficult for those who speak a Slavic or a non-European 

language.



Furthermore, the Scandinavians and the Dutch see everything on the 

cinema or television, in the original version. John Wayne speaks 

English. In the other countries, films are either dubbed or with 

voice-over.



So, for the Norwegians, English is like a second language. To the point 

where, when I was first in this country, speaking a very poor 

Norwegians, many went over to English, assuming that I would speak it 

better than their own tongue.



Last, I notice, sometimes, typing errors on this list. E.g. "hanger" 

instead of "hangar." I guess it is just writing as one speaks. The 

reason I notice those errors is that, because my English if far from 

perfect, I often use a speller. While it helps me to write the correct 

words, it doesn't improve my grammar and, often, I use the wrong adverb 

or simply built sentences in a way native English speakers, wouldn't.



Cheers,

Michel



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ruebd(at)skymail.csus.edu
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Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 11:41 am Post subject: off topic WAS Date time note

Michel



	Since you have brought up the topic of spelling, I will now

throw in my "two cents worth".  The spelling is sometimes so bad that

the meaning cannot be accurately determined, and it takes many readings

and thinking about context in order to understand the writer's point.

There is probably no one on the list, including me, who is a perfect

speller, but it would be nice if a spell checker were used more often.

My own experience with these is that the one supplied with Micro Soft

Office lacks knowledge of many common words.  We know it won't know

highly technical words, but many times it fails us on fairly common

ones, a failing which I think to be inexcusable.  Still, it is useful,

if only to clean up our typing sloppiness. 

	Whenever I am reading one of the messages that was done very

poorly, spelling (and/or grammar) wise, I do feel for you guys (and

gals) whom are not native English speakers.   Since I  grew up in a

household of German language speakers, I did learn the sounds of another

language, albeit a closely related one, but at the time of my childhood

and most absorbent period, they actually didn't want me and my sister to

learn German, so we didn't.  I am somewhat envious of those who do have

more than one language under their hat.  

	You do quite well with English, far better than I with any

language other than English, so thanks for the cultural transfer and

enrichment.  



Duane Rueb



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Rex Hefferan

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 147
Location: Olney Springs, Colorado USA "NOT a Kitpig"

Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 5:34 pm Post subject: off topic WAS Date time note

Thanks Michel, I wish I had your command of languages. So if English is 

not the easiest, which is? Who knows? My understanding of the statement 

was that someone could make a lot of grammatical and pronunciation 

errors and more likely still get the message across better than other 

languages. Thus American English is often more tolerant of errors for 

communication. I agree English has these odd words which makes it 

difficult since there are more exceptions to the rules of pronunciation. 

As you pointed out in your message there are very many words adopted 

from other languages that are now part of English. Such is the way of 

American English with the varied influences of people from so many 

countries that settled here and who continue to immigrate here. It 

follows that there are many more words used and substituted than in 

British English. American English continues to evolve with the USA 

experiment. Human nature being what it is, good and bad, it hasn't all 

been pretty.

 My original thought said another way, was how much harder do we make 

these discussions for our international members when we type language 

errors? Sometimes I think I would have a really tough time if similar 

mistakes were common in emails were I on a List in German or Spanish.

(I'm glad I don't have to!) 

Rex

Florida

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Rex
N740GP - M2/582
Colorado

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