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Auxillary Battery Installation...

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longg(at)pjm.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:53 am Post subject: Auxillary Battery Installation...

I am going to install the B & C Sealed RG (Recombinant Gas) Battery 12V,

7.2AH job in my aircraft as a backup battery for my dual EI. I've not

used batteries with fast-on tabs  before.



What size tabs and what size wire would I expect to run from the battery

to the contactor? I'll be using Z-30 as my guide. Would I then run the

normal #4 to the main battery contactor or could I go with lighter? Run

is 10 feet from behind my seat.



B & C does not sell a case for these things. Has anyone found suitable

cases or just made them? I expect to mount the contactor on the case.

Thanks,

Glenn

messydeer

Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 214
Location: Bellingham, WA

Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:20 pm Post subject: Re: Auxillary Battery Installation...

Did you see the link to "outline drawing" on the page that describes this battery?



http://www.bandc.biz/pdfs/bc102-1.pdf



It says they are 3/16" male fastons on this battery.

_________________
Dan

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:36 pm Post subject: Auxillary Battery Installation...

At 11:45 AM 11/30/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



I am going to install the B & C Sealed RG (Recombinant Gas) Battery 12V,

7.2AH job in my aircraft as a backup battery for my dual EI. I've not

used batteries with fast-on tabs  before.



What size tabs and what size wire would I expect to run from the battery

to the contactor? I'll be using Z-30 as my guide. Would I then run the

normal #4 to the main battery contactor or could I go with lighter? Run

is 10 feet from behind my seat.


	


   Z-30 is suggested for batteries capable of assisting

   with getting the engine started. The 7.2 a.h. battery

   can't help with cranking.



   Z-35 shows lighter wiring and hardware for small aux

   batteries.



 	  Quote: 	
		  B & C does not sell a case for these things. Has anyone found suitable

cases or just made them? I expect to mount the contactor on the case.


	


   AGM batteries don't need a battery box. They're

   spill-proof. Containing escaping liquid and venting

   copious out-gassing is the only reason we put boxes

   around batteries in the first place. AGM/RG batteries

   can strap down in a simple tray. You don't need a

   contactor, just a 30A plastic relay as described in

   Z-30. What is the 10-foot run about? Your aux battery

   should be right next to the main battery as should the

   aux battery fuse block. Wires from the fuse block can

   be any necessary length.



        Bob . . .



         ---------------------------------------

        ( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH!    )

        ( Do your part to keep this marvelous  )

        ( tool sharp and available to all our  )

        ( brothers in the OBAM aviation        )

        ( community.                           )

         ---------------------------------------

longg(at)pjm.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:56 pm Post subject: Auxillary Battery Installation...

Thanks Bob and Dan,



My 10 foot deal was to move the battery behind the seat as I am short of

room on the firewall where the primary battery is. If necessary I may be

able to strap this thing inside the firewall behind the panel to keep

the wires short. 



The B & C Notes indicated a 3.0 Amp charging limit? Is that an issue

with the charge coming off the alternator?



Glenn



--

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:43 am Post subject: Auxillary Battery Installation...

At 09:53 PM 11/30/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Thanks Bob and Dan,



My 10 foot deal was to move the battery behind the seat as I am short of

room on the firewall where the primary battery is. If necessary I may be

able to strap this thing inside the firewall behind the panel to keep

the wires short.


	


    Hmmmm . . . it would be best to keep the wires

    short. What combination of equipment and design

    goals are driving the need for an extra battery?

 	  Quote: 	
		  The B & C Notes indicated a 3.0 Amp charging limit? Is that an issue

with the charge coming off the alternator?


	




   ALL manufacturers of small batteries would

   HOPE that their product never gets charged

   above some fairly benign value. Bottom line

   is that when installed in most vehicles, there's

   no way to practically observe those limits.

   As long as the battery is seldom or never asked

   to do its job and becomes seriously depleted,

   then it will not be subjected to high recharge

   rates as a routine matter.



   However, hanging little batteries off a robust

   bus does raise questions about flight-worthiness.

   This battery should be tested for capacity at

   every annual.

        Bob . . .



         ---------------------------------------

        ( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH!    )

        ( Do your part to keep this marvelous  )

        ( tool sharp and available to all our  )

        ( brothers in the OBAM aviation        )

        ( community.                           )

         ---------------------------------------

longg(at)pjm.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:46 am Post subject: Auxillary Battery Installation...

Thanks Bob,



Yeah, nothing is easy. My goal for the backup battery is to ensure

reliability of my electrically dependent ignition should a major event

occur in the primary charging/battery system. Note, I have an SD8 for a

backup alt which feeds the essential bus.



So, the design goal is that when all else fails, the backup battery

would run one side of the ignition and provide time for me down safely.

I suppose one option would be to isolate the battery from the charging

system, but that would require constant monitoring on my part.



Glenn



--

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:19 am Post subject: Auxillary Battery Installation...

At 10:38 AM 12/1/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Thanks Bob,



Yeah, nothing is easy. My goal for the backup battery is to ensure

reliability of my electrically dependent ignition should a major event

occur in the primary charging/battery system. Note, I have an SD8 for a

backup alt which feeds the essential bus.


	


    Okay, how many electrical feeds are necessary to keep

    the engine running and what devices do they service?

 	  Quote: 	
		  So, the design goal is that when all else fails,


	


    I'll suggest we strive to eliminate "when all else fails"

    from the lexicon of airplanespeak. It's a vague, broad brush

    admission that we're unsure as to the SYSTEM reliability

    of our design. The feel-good response is to stack on

    "safety enhancements" that tend to prop up an ill-defined

    or mis-understood system.



    "All else" says you've suffered MULTIPLE failures of items

    necessary for continued flight . . . or perhaps ONE failure

    for which no plan-b was crafted.



    If you have an SD-8 + main alternator and an RG battery,

    perhaps you already have enough stuff to keep the grim-

    salvager from getting a call to come clean up the

    aluminum mess you made.



    Give us a list the electro-whizzies that keep the

    engine going along with their current requirements

    and we'll go from there.



        Bob . . .



         ---------------------------------------

        ( It's MATRONICS FUND RAISER MONTH!    )

        ( Do your part to keep this marvelous  )

        ( tool sharp and available to all our  )

        ( brothers in the OBAM aviation        )

        ( community.                           )

         ---------------------------------------

longg(at)pjm.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:41 pm Post subject: Auxillary Battery Installation...

Bob,



 	  Quote: 	
		  Okay, how many electrical feeds are necessary to keep

the engine running and what devices do they service?


	


Quick answer: 1. Life is pretty simple. I've got 2 Dynons both with

independent AHRS and internal battery so I'm pretty much covered for

attitude, airspeed etc. Radio and gps backup are handheld.



The big nickel is keeping one of two of the Lightspeed Ignition boxes

alive. Each box requires a min of 5 volts before they drop off the

planet. By design it is suggested that one connect to the main bus and

one to the aux bus. When things go south it is recommended to take one

off line to save remaining power.



With the exception of maybe an interior light, I could probably fly it

in just so even in the dark which is when I fly the most. I'm installing

a night vision camera which is < 3 amps and optional on a clear night.

No need for a landing light in most cases.



Right now I have each on an independent circuit (30 amp in line fuse

holders) followed by two potter 5 amp CB panel switches. Source for both

is directly  off the battery side of the main battery contactor. Klaus

might prefer I bolt that line directly to the battery, but I have not

done that yet.



Thanks,



Glenn



--

longg(at)pjm.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:07 am Post subject: Auxillary Battery Installation...

Bob,



I wanted to bubble this question up once more to get your comment on my

options to proceed. Thanks!



Glenn E. Long



--

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:03 am Post subject: Auxillary Battery Installation...

At 08:38 PM 12/1/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

Bob,

 >Okay, how many electrical feeds are necessary to keep

 >the engine running and what devices do they service?

Quick answer: 1. Life is pretty simple. I've got 2 Dynons both with

independent AHRS and internal battery so I'm pretty much covered for

attitude, airspeed etc. Radio and gps backup are handheld.

The big nickel is keeping one of two of the Lightspeed Ignition boxes

alive. Each box requires a min of 5 volts before they drop off the

planet. By design it is suggested that one connect to the main bus and

one to the aux bus. When things go south it is recommended to take one

off line to save remaining power.

   Z-13/8 with a rationally maintained RG battery will

   always have a source of energy needed to keep one

   if not both ignition systems running.

   If it were my airplane, #1 ignition would drive from

   a fuse on the main bus. #2 would run from a fuse on the

   battery bus. No extra batteries. No breakers. Only the

   normal ON/OFF control switches.

   Configure your e-bus as

 	  Quote: 	
		  With the exception of maybe an interior light, I could probably fly it

in just so even in the dark which is when I fly the most. I'm installing

a night vision camera which is < 3 amps and optional on a clear night.

No need for a landing light in most cases.

Right now I have each on an independent circuit (30 amp in line fuse

holders) followed by two potter 5 amp CB panel switches. Source for both

is directly  off the battery side of the main battery contactor. Klaus

might prefer I bolt that line directly to the battery, but I have not

done that yet.

   There are multiple recipes for success that use common

   ingredients. Be cautious of mixing-matching the ingredients

   between recipes. Z-13/8 will service your needs SIMPLY and

   nicely with no single points of failure for keeping the engine

   running.

   Configure the e-bus with attention to design goals

   described in chapter 17.

        Bob . . .

                    ////

                   (o o)

    ===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========

    < Go ahead, make my day . . .   >

    < show me where I'm wrong.      >

    =================================

longg(at)pjm.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:33 am Post subject: Auxillary Battery Installation...

Great,



Thanks Bob. Glenn



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