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Europa- Fresh air vents

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Bob.Fairall(at)fairalls.c
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:31 am Post subject: Europa- Fresh air vents

I’m progressing well on my second Europa (kit 494) and exploring the options for cockpit fresh air.  

   

My existing Europa has the plastic adjustable NACA duct type air inlets by pilot and passenger’s knees, but these are not particularly effective.  

   

I have heard of and seen a number of roof entry fresh air systems which I gather are very effective, but I recall reading somewhere that cutting the roof can compromise the strength of the cockpit module.  

   

All (UK) LAA approvable suggestions gratefully received.  

   

Thanks  

   

Bob Fairall (G-BXLK, mono classic, 400 hours and for sale, & G-CBXW)  

  

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jimpuglise(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:21 am Post subject: Europa- Fresh air vents

Bob- 

  

I have been working with Flight Crafters and have installed the system as I have progressed.  They recommend an NACA duct mounted on the rudder.  Attach a 2 inch stainless mesh to it to keep critters out and FLOX it in.  I used the mesh from a stainles steel tea strainer.  Run 2 inch SCAT tubing to a channel along the inside of the fuselage top.  The channel is made from 2 X BID over a foam mold.  The channel feeds the overhead panel where you can install eye vents.  I used a single very large eye vent from Stein Air in the back and another in the front.  How does it work?  Can't say, I am not flying yet, but Bob has installed a number and says they work just fine.  He uses the smaller eyeball vents.  Also, AS sells an "ultimate vent" that you install directly under the rear corners of the windshield that supposedly works very well.  The price of all the vents is bout $ 100 each.   

  

Jim Puglise A-283 



---

Ivor Phillips

Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 253
Location: London UK

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:01 pm Post subject: Europa- Fresh air vents

Hi Bob

I have fitted a Pair of ultimate vent to my aircraft, They work very well, much better that the Europa NACA vents, The only problem is a small amount of weepage if flying in rain, In Spain this year with temperatures approaching 40C it was bearable, so I would recomend them.

Ivor

---- Bob Fairall <Bob.Fairall(at)fairalls.co.uk> wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		   I'm progressing well on my second Europa (kit 494) and exploring the options for cockpit fresh air.

 

 My existing Europa has the plastic adjustable NACA duct type air inlets by pilot and passenger's knees, but these are not particularly effective.

 

 I have heard of and seen a number of roof entry fresh air systems which I gather are very effective, but I recall reading somewhere that cutting the roof can compromise the strength of the cockpit module.

 

 All (UK) LAA approvable suggestions gratefully received.

 

 Thanks

 

 Bob Fairall (G-BXLK, mono classic, 400 hours and for sale, & G-CBXW)

 

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ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserv
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:55 pm Post subject: Europa- Fresh air vents

Bob,

 Try putting a small VGs infront of each of the  entry-ramps to the "knee level" vents; these should then create an inflow  that is more than adequate.

  

 Duncan McF.

 [quote]   ---

milneab(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:06 pm Post subject: Europa- Fresh air vents

For my second Europa I used the Aircraft Spruce  supplied circular type in the same location as the NACA type in the  kit.

  

 These operate in butterfly valve fashion,  seal well and are controllable from a dribble of cold air that is enough to  clear misting in the winter to a good blast from the lap upwards on hot  days.  If required a handy map can divert the airflow anywhere within  reason.

  

 Alasdair Milne  G-CEYK

 [quote]   ---

rampil

Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 870

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: Europa- Fresh air vents

Hi All,



I have been flying my bird for more than five years with Bob and Russell's

design for a rudder to canopy overhead vents.



I have to say its a great idea, that the fronto-lateral surface of the

rudder should be a nice high pressure area to feed the duct, but in 

practice, in cruise, the air flow from these vents is barely perceptible.



Far more ventilation occurs from the open armrest/fuel filter tunnel,

probably from the flap slots (which should be negative pressure at 

first look!)



If I felt like an improvement in this department, I would cover the

external naca vent and just put a rotating vent in the door window.



Just my opinion!



Ira

_________________
Ira N224XS

rparigoris

Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Posts: 804

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 7:03 pm Post subject: Europa- Fresh air vents

We chose on our XS Mono to go the route of the Ultimate ventilators as sold by Aircraft Spruce. Although Vans sells units that are similar, they are smaller (and less expensive).Richards XS with conventional gear has Ultimate vebntilators and they work well.Here is our install with some pics at end with location others have chosen: http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=36201Ron Parigoris   [quote][b]

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 7:48 pm Post subject: Europa- Fresh air vents

Bob,



I have elected to go with the ACS Ultimate Ventilators.  In my 20 hours so far, they seem to do a reasonable job of providing airflow into the cockpit when you want it and cut it off effectively when you don't.  

You can see pics of the ventilators:

http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=63921

and my installation:

http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=66265&g2_page=2

on my build web site.

Check six,

 Bob Borger

Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S

http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL

Aircraft Flying!

3705 Lynchburg Dr.

Corinth, TX  76208

Home:  940-497-2123

Cel:  817-992-1117





 

 

On Dec 17, 2009, at 11:25, Bob Fairall wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I’m progressing well on my second Europa (kit 494) and exploring the options for cockpit fresh air.

 

My existing Europa has the plastic adjustable NACA duct type air inlets by pilot and passenger’s knees, but these are not particularly effective.

 

I have heard of and seen a number of roof entry fresh air systems which I gather are very effective, but I recall reading somewhere that cutting the roof can compromise the strength of the cockpit module.

 

All (UK) LAA approvable suggestions gratefully received.

 

Thanks

 

Bob Fairall (G-BXLK, mono classic, 400 hours and for sale, & G-CBXW)

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frans(at)paardnatuurlijk.
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:14 am Post subject: Europa- Fresh air vents

Bob Fairall wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I have heard of and seen a number of roof entry fresh air systems

 which I gather are very effective, but I recall reading somewhere

 that cutting the roof can compromise the strength of the cockpit

 module.


	


Well, I guess we all know how to compensate for the loss of strength

caused by cutting a small hole in 3mm foam with about one layer of bid

on each side.  The middle of the "bar" isn't anything more than that,

so if it is structural at all, it is easy to compensate.



I made a roof vent, besides ultimate ventilators on the fuselage sides,

and I can tell you that on the ground at idle these roof vents already

really blow. With anything more than idle I had to close them, as they

produced so much air that it wasn't comfortable anymore.



The advantage over a tail solution is that it is lighter in weight, the

"duct" is considerably shorter so there is less friction hence more air,

and, last but not least, it is not likely that anything from the exhaust

makes it to the roof top (while I wouldn't guarantee that the tail won't

receive some of the exhaust fumes).



My roof vent consists of a small retractable scoop, just 5 cm wide, and

opens up about 1,5 cm. It feeds two eyeball vents in the roof panel.

I followed the procedure explained in the manual for various other

openings: Make a splash mold of the intended roof area, cut the opening,

take away some of the skin on the inside, take out some of the foam

core, and connect the inner skin to the outer skin with flox and bid,

creating a flange at the same time. I made the flange somewhat lower, so

that there was room to make a waterproof seal.



The construction by itself is stronger than the piece taken away.



Frans

air.guerner(at)orange.fr
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 5:10 am Post subject: Europa- Fresh air vents

<<<<<<<<<the plastic adjustable NACA duct type  air inlets by

 pilot and passenger's knees, but these are not  particularly effective.>>>>>>>>

  

 In my opinion the supplied NACA are very  effective to cool the pilot left and passenger's right knees only.  After living with that inconvenience for 7 years and 600 flight hours, I  decided to fix it. I made a fiberglass conduit which is glued in place and  allows the fresh air from the NACA to be rerouted forward to an aluminum eyeball  vent.  The original Naca shutoff panel has been removed. The conduit is  hidden behind the sidewall carpeting.  See attached pictures. Now I can  direct fresh air were I want it. The pilot side vent has been tested for one  year now and the pax side was installed last october. Both are very  effective.

  

 Remi Guerner

 F-PGKL

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kevann(at)gotsky.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:12 pm Post subject: Europa- Fresh air vents

I'm happy with the ultimate vents I placed above  the knee, so they are just clear of the instrument module. Seems like the  lightest and easiest to install of just about any of the ideas out  there.

  

 Kevin

 [quote]   ---

garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:06 pm Post subject: Europa- Fresh air vents

The summers don't get much hotter than here in  Florida.  I initially built-in the NACA ducts at knee level as per the  plans........almost worthless.  Much later I discovered the Aircraft Spruce  "Ultimate Vents", which I placed in the lower corners of the windscreen, on each  side.  Fantastic!!!!  They can be directed to blow on your upper torso  and face, from a whisper to a tornado.  They really work!!!  And the  best part is that they can be installed in a few minutes AFTER you've  completed your build, without messing up your paint job or your interior  upholstery.

  

 Garry Stout

 Tampa, Florida  914 Tri

  

 [quote]   ---

paul.the.aviator(at)gmail
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:59 pm Post subject: Europa- Fresh air vents

Hi Gary, and others that have gone before me,



I was wondering how you were able to fit up the Ultimate ventilators without damaging your paint finish.



Thanks,  Paul

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 3:04 PM, Garry <garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com (garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com)> wrote:

 [quote]          And the  best part is that they can be installed in a few minutes AFTER you've  completed your build, without messing up your paint job or your interior  upholstery.

  



 

[b]

garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:51 pm Post subject: Europa- Fresh air vents

Hi Paul,

  

 The hole I drilled to fit the ventilators was in  the Plexiglas windscreen.  I think in the UK they call it "Perspex" or some  such thing.  I used a cheap and simple tool called a "fly cutter", chucked  into my cordless drill.  Make sure you have a steady hand, and turn the  drill at the lowest speed possible..........like 50 RPM if possible.  It  made a neat, clean hole and I bonded the ventilator in with Redux.  The  whole job couldn't have taken more than 5 minutes.  I drilled the holes in  the outermost corners of the windscreen, leaving about one inch clearance from  the edges of the windscreen.  I hope this description helps.

  

 Garry Stout

 Tampa, Florida  914 Tri

  

 [quote]   ---

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:33 pm Post subject: Europa- Fresh air vents

Paul,



I installed my vents during construction but don't see why it couldn't be accomplished after the build.  I found a hole saw that was exactly the right diameter to fit the ridge on the vent.  I would recommend applying tape to the paint side prior to drilling from the paint side to protect the paint from chipping.  Drill slowly and carefully.  Once you have run the center drill bit through, you might even consider operating the hole saw by hand at least until it is through the outer skin.

You will have to remove the interior skin and foam in a larger circle to allow the ring to sit flush with the outer surface.  Careful work with a box cutter type blade will do it.  

I used Redux/Araldite to bond the ring in place.  

I hope this helps,

 Bob Borger

Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S

http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL

Aircraft Flying!

3705 Lynchburg Dr.

Corinth, TX  76208

Home:  940-497-2123

Cel:  817-992-1117





 

 

On Dec 18, 2009, at 15:58, Paul McAllister wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Hi Gary, and others that have gone before me,



I was wondering how you were able to fit up the Ultimate ventilators without damaging your paint finish.



Thanks,  Paul

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 3:04 PM, Garry <garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com (garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		            And the  best part is that they can be installed in a few minutes AFTER you've  completed your build, without messing up your paint job or your interior  upholstery.

duanefamly(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:31 pm Post subject: Europa- Fresh air vents

Gary, you wouldn't happen to have a pix of your vents?

    

   Mike Duane

   Redding, CA

   XS Conventional Gear

 

 

 

   --

wdaniell(at)etb.net.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:54 am Post subject: Europa- Fresh air vents

garry

 

 can you send a pic please

 

 Will

 

 Garry wrote: [quote]                           1024x768   <![endif]-->     Clean   DocumentEmail               false   false   false      EN-GB   X-NONE   X-NONE                                         MicrosoftInternetExplorer4                                                   <![endif]-->                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                <![endif]-->   (at)font-face { 	font-family: Cambria Math; } (at)font-face { 	font-family: Calibri; } (at)font-face { 	font-family: Consolas; } (at)page Section1 {size: 612.0pt 792.0pt; margin: 72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt; mso-header-margin: 35.45pt; mso-footer-margin: 35.45pt; mso-paper-source: 0; 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	mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; 	mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; 	mso-style-noshow:yes; 	mso-style-priority:99; 	mso-style-qformat:yes; 	mso-style-parent:""; 	mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; 	mso-para-margin:0cm; 	mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; 	mso-pagination:widow-orphan; 	font-size:10.0pt; 	font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}  <![endif]-->   <![endif]-->       <![endif]-->   The summers don't get much hotter than here in Florida.  I initially built-in the NACA ducts at knee level as per the plans........almost worthless.  Much later I discovered the Aircraft Spruce "Ultimate Vents", which I placed in the lower corners of the windscreen, on each side.  Fantastic!!!!  They can be directed to blow on your upper torso and face, from a whisper to a tornado.  They really work!!!  And the best part is that they can be installed in a few minutes AFTER you've completed your build, without messing up your paint job or your interior upholstery.

    

   Garry Stout

   Tampa, Florida  914 Tri

    

    	  Quote: 	
		       ----- Original Message ----- 

     From:     Kevin Klinefelter (kevann(at)gotsky.com) 

     To:     europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com) 

     Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 3:07 PM

     Subject: Re: Europa- Fresh air vents

     

     

     I'm happy with the ultimate vents I placed above the knee, so they are just clear of the instrument module. Seems like the lightest and easiest to install of just about any of the ideas out there.

      

     Kevin

      	  Quote: 	
		         ----- Original Message ----- 

       From:       Bob Fairall (Bob.Fairall(at)fairalls.co.uk) 

       To:       europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com) 

       Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 9:25 AM

       Subject: Europa- Fresh air vents

       

       

              

I’m progressing well on my second Europa (kit 494) and exploring the options for cockpit fresh air.       

        

My existing Europa has the plastic adjustable NACA duct type air inlets by pilot and passenger’s knees, but these are not particularly effective.       

        

I have heard of and seen a number of roof entry fresh air systems which I gather are very effective, but I recall reading somewhere that cutting the roof can compromise the strength of the cockpit module.       

        

All (UK) LAA approvable suggestions gratefully received.       

        

Thanks       

        

Bob Fairall (G-BXLK, mono classic, 400 hours and for sale, & G-CBXW)       

       

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