karelvranken9(at)gmail.co
Guest
|
 Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:14 am Post subject: Europa-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 01/11/10 |
 |
|
Dear Europaphiles,
Happy landings for 2010.
When my wife takes her broom and flies at 2 feet above ground on public roads, she doen't need an airworthiness certificate nor a license here in Belgium. But when she will practice her sports by night over private properties, then that may pose certain problems.(don't archive)
F-PKRL is built and owned in Belgium. You have to prove that the VAT is payed on the materials. The reason for me was quite simple: in Belgium they asked at that moment 2500 Euro for registration only. Here you may fly foreign registrated airplanes at certain conditions: airworthiness certificate and insurance for accepted types of aircraft (list with Europa). Last year (2009 03 16) a special law was promulgated in Belgium for foreign registrated aircrafts NOT having a valid airworthiness certificate (but allowed to fly in their homeland) to fly in Belgium provided they do a written request to the autorities. Under certain conditions (eg they can't take more than 6 passengers) and other administrative restrictions it is possible to fly even permanently. This only to demonstrate that complications may occur once you are passing the national boundary.
Best regards,
Karel Vranken.
2010/1/12 Europa-List Digest Server <europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)>
[quote]*
=========================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=========================
Today's complete Europa-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Europa-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter=2010-01-11&Archive=Europa
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter=2010-01-11&Archive=Europa
=======================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
=======================
----------------------------------------------------------
Europa-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Mon 01/11/10: 4
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:37 AM - Re: Foreign owner of British registered Europa (zwakie)
2. 06:35 AM - Re: Re: Foreign owner of British registered Europa (Frans Veldman)
3. 07:24 AM - Re: Re: Foreign owner of British registered Europa (Marcel Zwakenberg)
4. 11:26 AM - Re: Foreign owner of British registered Europa (Roland)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
Time: 04:37:44 AM PST US
Subject: Re: Foreign owner of British registered Europa
From: "zwakie" <mz(at)cariama.nl (mz(at)cariama.nl)>
> that it was an already completed aircraft I was looking at which had been flying
several hundred hours on British registration
You are doing exactly the same that I did about a year ago (my plane was completed
and flying when I bought it), this is what I experienced :
I did not have to do with Dutch authorities, except that I was told by Dutch CAA
to get approval to fly my airplane in Holland (although that official point
of view was open for debate since nobody was able to point me to the Law that
said so).
Please do realize that each country has different rules on flying foreign-registered aircraft within their airspace; check the "Flying From UK into Europe" document (http://www.europaclub.org.uk > For Pilots > Going Foreign > Permission to fly in European Countries) for details. Denmark is listed as not requiring special permission, that would make things easy for you.
I'm not sure what you mean with "importation" in your original question.
If you meant that you cannot transfer completed foreign homebuilts to the Danish
register, how about leaving it on the foreign register and operate it from Denmark?
(please read back my first reply for the most significant implications)
This automatically leads to other possible interpretation of aforesaid "importation":
If you mean that Danish Laws do not allow you to base and operate a foreign registered
homebuilt (e.g. without doing a transfer to Danish register), I would
recommend you to have Danish authorities show you the exact Article of the Law
that tells you that you can't do that. I would be highly surprised if the Law
would prevent you from doing so because to me that seems to be contradicting
with several EC Laws; if this indeed is the case, buying a completed foreign homebuilt
would not be an option to you.
Regarding maintenance a.s.o. you will have to comply with UK Laws. All information on these to be found on www.caa.co.uk.
Because UK CAA has delegated a lot of things regarding Class-A Permit-Aircraft to the LAA, you will be dealing with the LAA (http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/) quite a bit, most importantly for annual inspections and modifications approvals. Please realize that the LAA is a great resource for knowlegde and skills too (as is the Europa Club, membership of both are highly recommended when owning a Europa)!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=280997#280997
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
Time: 06:35:07 AM PST US
From: Frans Veldman <frans(at)privatepilots.nl (frans(at)privatepilots.nl)>
Subject: Re: Re: Foreign owner of British registered Europa
On 01/11/2010 01:36 PM, zwakie wrote:
| Quote: | This automatically leads to other possible interpretation of
aforesaid "importation": If you mean that Danish Laws do not allow
you to base and operate a foreign registered homebuilt (e.g. without
> doing a transfer to Danish register), I would recommend you to have
|
| Quote: | Danish authorities show you the exact Article of the Law that tells
you that you can't do that. I would be highly surprised if the Law
> would prevent you from doing so because to me that seems to be
|
| Quote: | contradicting with several EC Laws; if this indeed is the case,
buying a completed foreign homebuilt would not be an option to you.
|
It could be the case though, as the definition of "homebuilt" aircraft
and associated laws differ from one country to the other.
If it would be possible for UK-builders to register their airplane in
the Netherlands, and still operate it in the UK, this would be an easy
way to get approval for even the wildest mods to the airplanes.  Why
would anyone in their right mind register an airplane in a country with
very limiting restrictions, like the UK, if there is actually no law
telling you to do so?
IS it actually possible to register your airplane anywhere, regardless
of citizenship and intended country of operation, just to circumvent
some local rules?
Now my airplane with quite some mods has gone through the Dutch
registration process, I could transfer it to British registration, so I
don't have to invest in a mode-S transponder and 406 MHz ELT. That would
give the best of both countries. All the mods approved, no useless
avionics. 
(Oh, and don't mis-interpret my remark about restrictions regarding
mods. Of course I consider it worthwile to have mods double checked. But
we all know that there are quite some innocent mods, applied by many
others already, where the requirement to get individual approval is
quite a nuisance. At least it seems so.)
Frans
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
Time: 07:24:36 AM PST US
Subject: RE: Re: Foreign owner of British registered Europa
From: "Marcel Zwakenberg" <mz(at)cariama.nl (mz(at)cariama.nl)>
| Quote: | It could be the case though, as the definition of "homebuilt" aircraft
and associated laws differ from one country to the other.
|
That's exactly why I suggested to do a thorough investigation on what
Law prescribes, not only in Denmark but also for other countries in
Europe.
| Quote: | If it would be possible for UK-builders to register their airplane in
the Netherlands, and still operate it in the UK,
|
It may sound weird, but it seems possible to do just that: I know of at
least one person from Germany that has an approved Dutch C/S reservation
for his project.
I agree with you on the potentials for 'regulation-circum-navigation'!
IMHO, it clearly shows a lack of good airmanship when safety is
sacrificed over regulations...
Marcel
PS
I guess by now you're ready for PH-DIY's first flight? (if only the snow
would disappear)
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
Time: 11:26:13 AM PST US
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Foreign owner of British registered Europa
From: "Roland" <schmidtroland(at)web.de (schmidtroland(at)web.de)>
The information I got from the German aviation authority (LBA) is, that it's legal
to operate an experimental in Germany on a foreign register as long as it's
an "ECAC-country" (to which Great Britain belongs). In my recall the same applies
to the scandinavian and other ECAC-countries between each other reciprocal.
But I'm quite sure, that the annual inspection has to be done in England.
In due time I will also search on the british market for a used Trigear.
Good luck!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281065#281065
,
www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
Matt Dralle, List Admin.
=====
[b]
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
|
|
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
