 |
Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
patrick(at)designworx.com
Guest
|
 Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 4:35 pm Post subject: Commercial use? |
 |
|
Gents,
I received this link to incredible-adventures.com: http://www.incredible-adventures.com/pdf/yak.pdf from Gary Gabbard, He expressed a concern and I agree. This site advertised a commercial air -combat operation. While I admire their enterprise, we know where this kind of activity got the T-34 community.
Personally, I am concerned that someone will get hurt with aggressive 'non-recreational' use of our fine aircraft and bring FAA action against us all. I am not sure who is planning these activities, but someone should inform this entity that commercial air combat ops for hire is not an approved use of the aircraft. Even claiming that it is a filming activity is not credible when one is essentially selling air-combat hops and filming them.
This kind of flying belongs in the proficiency realm, not the commercial. All of the above is simply my opinion. Am I wrong here?
Patrick Scofield
CJ-6P Alien Invasion
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
N13472(at)aol.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 5:24 pm Post subject: Commercial use? |
|
|
You are absolutely correct Pat! Note the pictures show Barry Hancock's plane?
Tom Elliott
CJ-6A NX63727
702-595-2680
[quote] From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Scofield
Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 4:32 PM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Commercial use?
Gents,
I received this link to incredible-adventures.com: http://www.incredible-adventures.com/pdf/yak.pdf from Gary Gabbard, He expressed a concern and I agree. This site advertised a commercial air -combat operation. While I admire their enterprise, we know where this kind of activity got the T-34 community.
Personally, I am concerned that someone will get hurt with aggressive 'non-recreational' use of our fine aircraft and bring FAA action against us all. I am not sure who is planning these activities, but someone should inform this entity that commercial air combat ops for hire is not an approved use of the aircraft. Even claiming that it is a filming activity is not credible when one is essentially selling air-combat hops and filming them.
This kind of flying belongs in the proficiency realm, not the commercial. All of the above is simply my opinion. Am I wrong here?
Patrick Scofield
CJ-6P Alien Invasion
| Quote: |
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
|
[b]
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fish(at)aviation-tech.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 5:54 pm Post subject: Commercial use? |
|
|
Patrick,
I belive if you check the company out further, you will find the owner to be Dave Riggs.
Many of you will recall Dave Riggs as the pilot who had his licence revoked for buzzing the Santa Monica Pier.
http://www.mach1aviation.com/bio-dr.htm
Laterrrrr
John Fischer
At 04:32 PM 3/6/2010, you wrote:
[quote]Gents,
I received this link to incredible-adventures.com: http://www.incredible-adventures.com/pdf/yak.pdf from Gary Gabbard, He expressed a concern and I agree. This site advertised a commercial air -combat operation. While I admire their enterprise, we know where this kind of activity got the T-34 community.
Personally, I am concerned that someone will get hurt with aggressive 'non-recreational' use of our fine aircraft and bring FAA action against us all. I am not sure who is planning these activities, but someone should inform this entity that commercial air combat ops for hire is not an approved use of the aircraft. Even claiming that it is a filming activity is not credible when one is essentially selling air-combat hops and filming them.
This kind of flying belongs in the proficiency realm, not the commercial. All of the above is simply my opinion. Am I wrong here?
Patrick Scofield
CJ-6P Alien Invasion
[b]
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wlannon(at)persona.ca
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 6:22 pm Post subject: Commercial use? |
|
|
Patrick;
Could not agree with you more. This needs to be stopped - if necessary by reference to the FAA.
These are non certificated aircraft. If an accident should occur, unlike the T34, T6 etc., there can not be an AWD to correct a problem.
The action would likely be total and permanent grounding in both the US and Canada.
Whoever is doing this is totally irresponsible.
Walt
---
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 6:36 pm Post subject: Commercial use? |
|
|
Great, He did not learn the first time when he brought down the FSDO on the jet and recip community on the west coast. Now he is trying to be famous again and in the process he’s going to make us famous.
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Fischer
Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 7:23 PM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commercial use?
Patrick,
I belive if you check the company out further, you will find the owner to be Dave Riggs.
Many of you will recall Dave Riggs as the pilot who had his licence revoked for buzzing the Santa Monica Pier.
http://www.mach1aviation.com/bio-dr.htm
Laterrrrr
John Fischer
At 04:32 PM 3/6/2010, you wrote:
Gents,
I received this link to incredible-adventures.com: http://www.incredible-adventures.com/pdf/yak.pdf from Gary Gabbard, He expressed a concern and I agree. This site advertised a commercial air -combat operation. While I admire their enterprise, we know where this kind of activity got the T-34 community.
Personally, I am concerned that someone will get hurt with aggressive 'non-recreational' use of our fine aircraft and bring FAA action against us all. I am not sure who is planning these activities, but someone should inform this entity that commercial air combat ops for hire is not an approved use of the aircraft. Even claiming that it is a filming activity is not credible when one is essentially selling air-combat hops and filming them.
This kind of flying belongs in the proficiency realm, not the commercial. All of the above is simply my opinion. Am I wrong here?
Patrick Scofield
CJ-6P Alien Invasion
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
0123456789
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vectorwarbirds(at)aol.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 6:54 pm Post subject: Commercial use? |
|
|
FYI:
You can get a wavier from the FAA to use experimental exhibition aircraft for commercial purposes. This is how Larry Salganek does it with MiGs and other aircraft and has been doing it for years. I asked him once.
These guys may or may not have a waiver, I don't know, but you can get one or so I was told. But I hope this don't bite US in the ass.
On other more worthy fronts there was a great turnout at Coolidge and Casa Grande fly ins today, mucho heavy warbird iron and probably eight CJs and one 'Haiyan!'
TGB
--
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
radiopicture
Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 263
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:42 pm Post subject: Commercial use? |
|
|
On the other hand, Skip Holm.
On Mar 6, 2010, at 8:23 PM, John Fischer wrote:
[quote] Patrick,
I belive if you check the company out further, you will find the owner to be Dave Riggs.
Many of you will recall Dave Riggs as the pilot who had his licence revoked for buzzing the Santa Monica Pier.
http://www.mach1aviation.com/bio-dr.htm
Laterrrrr
John Fischer
At 04:32 PM 3/6/2010, you wrote:
| Quote: | Gents,
I received this link to incredible-adventures.com: http://www.incredible-adventures.com/pdf/yak.pdf from Gary Gabbard, He expressed a concern and I agree. This site advertised a commercial air -combat operation. While I admire their enterprise, we know where this kind of activity got the T-34 community.
Personally, I am concerned that someone will get hurt with aggressive 'non-recreational' use of our fine aircraft and bring FAA action against us all. I am not sure who is planning these activities, but someone should inform this entity that commercial air combat ops for hire is not an approved use of the aircraft. Even claiming that it is a filming activity is not credible when one is essentially selling air-combat hops and filming them.
This kind of flying belongs in the proficiency realm, not the commercial. All of the above is simply my opinion. Am I wrong here?
Patrick Scofield
CJ-6P Alien Invasion
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
[b]
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KingCJ6(at)aol.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:54 pm Post subject: Commercial use? |
|
|
Doesn't matter if even God was PIC, the Fed's will quickly shut down our Experimental a**es if these guys have an incident ala the T-34's.
Dave
In a message dated 3/6/2010 8:43:07 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, eric(at)buffaloskyline.com writes:
| Quote: | On the other hand, Skip Holm.
On Mar 6, 2010, at 8:23 PM, John Fischer wrote:
| Quote: | Patrick,
I belive if you check the company out further, you will find the owner to be Dave Riggs.
Many of you will recall Dave Riggs as the pilot who had his licence revoked for buzzing the Santa Monica Pier.
http://www.mach1aviation.com/bio-dr.htm
Laterrrrr
John Fischer
At 04:32 PM 3/6/2010, you wrote:
| Quote: | Gents,
I received this link to incredible-adventures.com: http://www.incredible-adventures.com/pdf/yak.pdf from Gary Gabbard, He expressed a concern and I agree. This site advertised a commercial air -combat operation. While I admire their enterprise, we know where this kind of activity got the T-34 community.
Personally, I am concerned that someone will get hurt with aggressive 'non-recreational' use of our fine aircraft and bring FAA action against us all. I am not sure who is planning these activities, but someone should inform this entity that commercial air combat ops for hire is not an approved use of the aircraft. Even claiming that it is a filming activity is not credible when one is essentially selling air-combat hops and filming them.
This kind of flying belongs in the proficiency realm, not the commercial. All of the above is simply my opinion. Am I wrong here?
Patrick Scofield
CJ-6P Alien Invasion
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
====================================
="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
====================================
ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
====================================
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
====================================
|
|
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
radiopicture
Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 263
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 9:08 pm Post subject: Commercial use? |
|
|
Try to concentrate on the thread if you can. The sentence I was responding to mentioned that one of the pilots on the website was the one who buzzed the SMP. I'm not otherwise familiar with him, but if Skip Holm is associated with something, you might check your facts before criticizing. Not saying he can't be wrong, just that he has a lot of credibility.
On Mar 6, 2010, at 11:52 PM, KingCJ6(at)aol.com (KingCJ6(at)aol.com) wrote:
| Quote: | Doesn't matter if even God was PIC, the Fed's will quickly shut down our Experimental a**es if these guys have an incident ala the T-34's.
Dave
In a message dated 3/6/2010 8:43:07 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, eric(at)buffaloskyline.com (eric(at)buffaloskyline.com) writes:
| Quote: | On the other hand, Skip Holm.
On Mar 6, 2010, at 8:23 PM, John Fischer wrote:
|
| Quote: |
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
|
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ggg6(at)att.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 9:20 pm Post subject: Commercial use? |
|
|
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
William Halverson
Joined: 27 Feb 2010
Posts: 88
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 9:46 pm Post subject: Commercial use? |
|
|
Wrong? How can reasoned opinions ever be wrong?
I've seen an outfit that put lasers into SM-260s flying out of LVR .. they have 1v1 dogfights on a routine basis ... 'tag, you're dead' I suppose. It's joy riding, more than anything else ... regardless of the PR pieces say.
If the waivers/releases are in place, and its over unpopulated areas, why would a crash affect the rest of us? Yes, it would be a shame to lose the a/c of course ... but if the a/c are properly maintained ... pilot error would be the NTSB verdict and all that would happen is insurance rates would go up.
I hope ...
Didn't the T-34 group have material fatigue going against them? Did they push their a/c beyond the envelope?
William
Just a YAK55 guy
At 08:39 PM 3/6/2010, Eric Wobschall wrote:
[quote]On the other hand, Skip Holm.
On Mar 6, 2010, at 8:23 PM, John Fischer wrote:
| Quote: | Patrick,
I belive if you check the company out further, you will find the owner to be Dave Riggs.
Many of you will recall Dave Riggs as the pilot who had his licence revoked for buzzing the Santa Monica Pier.
http://www.mach1aviation.com/bio-dr.htm
Laterrrrr
John Fischer
At 04:32 PM 3/6/2010, you wrote:
| Quote: | Gents,
I received this link to incredible-adventures.com: http://www.incredible-adventures.com/pdf/yak.pdf from Gary Gabbard, He expressed a concern and I agree. This site advertised a commercial air -combat operation. While I admire their enterprise, we know where this kind of activity got the T-34 community.
Personally, I am concerned that someone will get hurt with aggressive 'non-recreational' use of our fine aircraft and bring FAA action against us all. I am not sure who is planning these activities, but someone should inform this entity that commercial air combat ops for hire is not an approved use of the aircraft. Even claiming that it is a filming activity is not credible when one is essentially selling air-combat hops and filming them.
This kind of flying belongs in the proficiency realm, not the commercial. All of the above is simply my opinion. Am I wrong here?
Patrick Scofield
CJ-6P Alien Invasion |
|
[b]
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KingCJ6(at)aol.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:34 pm Post subject: Commercial use? |
|
|
I'm sorry, I'll attempt to “concentrate on the thread” and dumb this down
for you. In the FAA’s eye’s, it doesn't matter if Skip Holm, Chuck
Yeager or Joe Pilot is operating an Experimental aircraft for Commercial
purposes and has an incident. They will find reasons why we should not fly rather
than why we should continue to fly. The notorious T-34 Air Combat
operations were all certified for Commercial operations in the Normal category –
the aftermath is well known and continues to haunt our community. Perhaps
you are expecting “change you can count on”?
Dave
In a message dated 3/6/2010 9:09:38 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
eric(at)buffaloskyline.com writes:
Try to concentrate on the thread if you can. The sentence I was responding
to mentioned that one of the pilots on the website was the one who buzzed
the SMP. I'm not otherwise familiar with him, but if Skip Holm is
associated with something, you might check your facts before criticizing. Not saying
he can't be wrong, just that he has a lot of credibility.
On Mar 6, 2010, at 11:52 PM, _KingCJ6(at)aol.com_ (mailto:KingCJ6(at)aol.com)
wrote:
Doesn't matter if even God was PIC, the Fed's will quickly shut down our
Experimental a**es if these guys have an incident ala the T-34's.
Dave
In a message dated 3/6/2010 8:43:07 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
_eric(at)buffaloskyline.com_ (mailto:eric(at)buffaloskyline.com) writes:
On the other hand, Skip Holm.
On Mar 6, 2010, at 8:23 PM, John Fischer wrote:
Patrick,
I belive if you check the company out further, you will find the owner to
be Dave Riggs.
Many of you will recall Dave Riggs as the pilot who had his licence
revoked for buzzing the Santa Monica Pier.
_http://www.mach1aviation.com/bio-dr.htm_
(http://www.mach1aviation.com/bio-dr.htm)
Laterrrrr
John Fischer
At 04:32 PM 3/6/2010, you wrote:
Gents,
I received this link to incredible-adventures.com:
_http://www.incredible-adventures.com/pdf/yak.pdf_
(http://www.incredible-adventures.com/pdf/yak.pdf) from Gary Gabbard, He expressed a concern and I agree. This
site advertised a commercial air -combat operation. While I admire their
enterprise, we know where this kind of activity got the T-34 community.
Personally, I am concerned that someone will get hurt with aggressive
'non-recreational' use of our fine aircraft and bring FAA action against us
all. I am not sure who is planning these activities, but someone should
inform this entity that commercial air combat ops for hire is not an approved
use of the aircraft. Even claiming that it is a filming activity is not
credible when one is essentially selling air-combat hops and filming them
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
radiopicture
Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 263
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 5:03 am Post subject: Commercial use? |
|
|
Once again, Dave, you seem to be mistaking my remark about Skip Holm as suggestion that certain kinds of operations are generally a good idea. It was in response to a list user pointing out that the outfit in question had among it ranks a pilot who has been previously criticized on this forum. Since John pointed out the participation of that pilot with this group to bolster an argument, I though it intellectually honest to point out that another pilot with an impeccable reputation was also associated with the same group. I made what was intended as a rather innocuous observation to what I know to be a thoughtful forum.
I appreciate your passion, and enjoy the most of the arguments we have on here. However, I don't expect to be excoriated for the mere mention of a man's name. You can expect some mild sarcasm after a slap like that. However, I regret taking you first remark personally, and I didn't mean to slump into an uncivilized exchange. Apologies for that.
On Mar 7, 2010, at 1:33 AM, KingCJ6(at)aol.com (KingCJ6(at)aol.com) wrote:
| Quote: | I'm sorry, I'll attempt to “concentrate on the thread” and dumb this down for you. In the FAA’s eye’s, it doesn't matter if Skip Holm, Chuck Yeager or Joe Pilot is operating an Experimental aircraft for Commercial purposes and has an incident. They will find reasons why we should not fly rather than why we should continue to fly. The notorious T-34 Air Combat operations were all certified for Commercial operations in the Normal category – the aftermath is well known and continues to haunt our community. Perhaps you are expecting “change you can count on”?
Dave
In a message dated 3/6/2010 9:09:38 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, eric(at)buffaloskyline.com (eric(at)buffaloskyline.com) writes:
| Quote: | Try to concentrate on the thread if you can. The sentence I was responding to mentioned that one of the pilots on the website was the one who buzzed the SMP. I'm not otherwise familiar with him, but if Skip Holm is associated with something, you might check your facts before criticizing. Not saying he can't be wrong, just that he has a lot of credibility.
On Mar 6, 2010, at 11:52 PM, KingCJ6(at)aol.com (KingCJ6(at)aol.com) wrote:
|
| Quote: |
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
|
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 5:36 am Post subject: Commercial use? |
|
|
Walt,
From my discussions with the FAA it is my understanding they can issue Airworthiness Directives for Experimental aircraft. Advisory Circular AC39-7C applies to AD's. http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/ea051001b2ce246e862569b500508099/$FILE/AC39-7C.pdf. Here's an excerpt from that AC
8. APPLICABILITY OF AD's. Each AD contains an applicability statement specifying the
product (aircraft, aircraft engine, propeller, or appliance) to which it applies. Some aircraft
owners and operators mistakenly assume that AD's do not apply to aircraft with other than
standard airworthiness certificates, i.e., special airworthiness certificates in the restricted, limited,
or experimental category. Unless specifically stated, AD's apply to the make and model set forth
in the applicability statement regardless of the classification or category of the airworthiness
certificate issued for the aircraft. Type certificate and airworthiness certification information are
used to identify the product affected. Limitations may be placed on applicability by specifying
the serial number or number series to which the AD is applicable. When there is no reference to
serial numbers, all serial numbers are affected. The following are examples of AD applicability
statements:
Dennis
---
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 5:49 am Post subject: Commercial use? |
|
|
William,
The question is what would happen to our Yak 52 community if someone pulls the wings off the airplane during a commercial operation and kills a couple of people because they were flying simulated air combat in a commercial operation? This is exactly what happened with the T-34's. They took paying customers, unqualified civilians and non-owners and gave them the opportunity to be a "fighter pilot for a day". Replace T-34's with Yak 52's and the answer is obvious. Remember metal has memory.
Dennis
[quote] ---
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:37 am Post subject: Commercial use? |
|
|
William,
As Dennis said (and you) metal has memory and therefore has fatigue. Many of our YAK 52’s came here with right at 1000 hours on them. That is when the Russians retired them from their inventory and we assume they are safe because of the way we fly them. They probably are but who has done Eddy Current and Xray analysis of their spars? I know of one person that has done that on their 50.
Bottom line is, these planes are tough as nails as long as we fly them they way we do. Going out and pulling 6-7 G’s or greater doing ACM daily is pushing you to a higher level of risk that the spar and attachment bolts just may not be what you thought you had before that wing folds over your head and you kiss your ass goodbye.
The Sukes have a formula for calculating airframe life based on G exposure above 6 or 6.5, I forgot which. Even titanium gives up the ghost sometimes.
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2010 7:45 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Commercial use?
William,
The question is what would happen to our Yak 52 community if someone pulls the wings off the airplane during a commercial operation and kills a couple of people because they were flying simulated air combat in a commercial operation? This is exactly what happened with the T-34's. They took paying customers, unqualified civilians and non-owners and gave them the opportunity to be a "fighter pilot for a day". Replace T-34's with Yak 52's and the answer is obvious. Remember metal has memory.
Dennis
| Quote: |
----- Original Message -----
From: William Halverson (william(at)netpros.net)
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 11:44 PM
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Commercial use?
Wrong? How can reasoned opinions ever be wrong?
I've seen an outfit that put lasers into SM-260s flying out of LVR .. they have 1v1 dogfights on a routine basis ... 'tag, you're dead' I suppose. It's joy riding, more than anything else ... regardless of the PR pieces say.
If the waivers/releases are in place, and its over unpopulated areas, why would a crash affect the rest of us? Yes, it would be a shame to lose the a/c of course ... but if the a/c are properly maintained ... pilot error would be the NTSB verdict and all that would happen is insurance rates would go up.
I hope ...
Didn't the T-34 group have material fatigue going against them? Did they push their a/c beyond the envelope?
William
Just a YAK55 guy
At 08:39 PM 3/6/2010, Eric Wobschall wrote:
On the other hand, Skip Holm.
On Mar 6, 2010, at 8:23 PM, John Fischer wrote:
Patrick,
I belive if you check the company out further, you will find the owner to be Dave Riggs.
Many of you will recall Dave Riggs as the pilot who had his licence revoked for buzzing the Santa Monica Pier.
http://www.mach1aviation.com/bio-dr.htm
Laterrrrr
John Fischer
At 04:32 PM 3/6/2010, you wrote:
Gents,
I received this link to incredible-adventures.com: http://www.incredible-adventures.com/pdf/yak.pdf from Gary Gabbard, He expressed a concern and I agree. This site advertised a commercial air -combat operation. While I admire their enterprise, we know where this kind of activity got the T-34 community.
Personally, I am concerned that someone will get hurt with aggressive 'non-recreational' use of our fine aircraft and bring FAA action against us all. I am not sure who is planning these activities, but someone should inform this entity that commercial air combat ops for hire is not an approved use of the aircraft. Even claiming that it is a filming activity is not credible when one is essentially selling air-combat hops and filming them.
This kind of flying belongs in the proficiency realm, not the commercial. All of the above is simply my opinion. Am I wrong here?
Patrick Scofield
CJ-6P Alien Invasion | Quote: | | href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c |
|
0123456789 | Quote: | | href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
0 | Quote: | | href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
1 | Quote: | | href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
2 | Quote: | | href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
3 | Quote: | | href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
4
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wlannon(at)persona.ca
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 9:16 am Post subject: Commercial use? |
|
|
Thanks Dennis;
I stand corrected. They are able to issue an AD but that may just be used as a mechanism for permanent grounding.
Walt
[quote] ---
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bwade154(at)yahoo.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:39 am Post subject: Commercial use? |
|
|
Concerning ACM with inexperienced passengers - pilots, Let me give one of my experiences with a passenger in my Yak 52. Back seater was a flight instructor with many years and hours of flight training a lot in Aronca 7ac’s 10 years my senior at least with some acro training. He asked for a ride in the Yak and I figured with his years as an instructor he might teach me something (I wasn’t disappointed he did) after flying around with him piloting from the back seat getting used to the airplane he ask about acrobatics, at the time I was proficient to the IAC Sportsman level finally some fun I asked him to follow me through on a loop entry speed 300 k easy pull to about 4.5 g relax over the top little rudder to keep it straight start pulling again at 45 down relax at level OK you try one 300k down and 7.5g snap roll! Cheack to see that wings are still there.
I guess what I’m trying to say is No matter the experience of the pilot - passenger things happen fast, will the safety pilot always be able to stop and correct someone trying to be something they are not? NO they will not! Eventually the wings will come OFF!
Can a CJ do a 7.5g snap roll?Bill Wade
From: Patrick Scofield <patrick(at)designworx.com>
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sat, March 6, 2010 7:32:23 PM
Subject: Commercial use?
Gents,
I received this link to incredible-adventures.com: http://www.incredible-adventures.com/pdf/yak.pdf from Gary Gabbard, He expressed a concern and I agree. This site advertised a commercial air -combat operation. While I admire their enterprise, we know where this kind of activity got the T-34 community.
Personally, I am concerned that someone will get hurt with aggressive 'non-recreational' use of our fine aircraft and bring FAA action against us all. I am not sure who is planning these activities, but someone should inform this entity that commercial air combat ops for hire is not an approved use of the aircraft. Even claiming that it is a filming activity is not credible when one is essentially selling air-combat hops and filming them.
This kind of flying belongs in the proficiency realm, not the commercial. All of the above is simply my opinion. Am I wrong here?
Patrick Scofield
CJ-6P Alien Invasion
[quote][b][b]
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kregg(at)balancemyprop.co
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:23 am Post subject: Commercial use? |
|
|
Wow!!! This is great I just scheduled a ACM flight. I have always wanted to do this. Can you guys help me out. Is it safe do with a CJ and not and real Yak?
I am looking forward to this…..
K
Victory Aero LLC
2502 John Montgomery Dr.
San Jose, CA 95148
408-836-5122
www.balancemyprop.com
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Scofield
Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 4:32 PM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Commercial use?
Gents,
I received this link to incredible-adventures.com: http://www.incredible-adventures.com/pdf/yak.pdf from Gary Gabbard, He expressed a concern and I agree. This site advertised a commercial air -combat operation. While I admire their enterprise, we know where this kind of activity got the T-34 community.
Personally, I am concerned that someone will get hurt with aggressive 'non-recreational' use of our fine aircraft and bring FAA action against us all. I am not sure who is planning these activities, but someone should inform this entity that commercial air combat ops for hire is not an approved use of the aircraft. Even claiming that it is a filming activity is not credible when one is essentially selling air-combat hops and filming them.
This kind of flying belongs in the proficiency realm, not the commercial. All of the above is simply my opinion. Am I wrong here?
Patrick Scofield
CJ-6P Alien Invasion
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
0123456789
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 12:00 pm Post subject: Commercial use? |
|
|
You are 110% correct Walt.
Dennis
[quote] ---
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
