 |
Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
kearney
Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563
|
 Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 4:06 pm Post subject: Comm Antennas |
 |
|
Hi
I am planning on installing two Comant CI-122 antennas tomorrow. My plan is to fab doublers and install the antennas / doublers just aft and inboard of the fuse steps. My reason for this is I have inspection panels in that area for the steps so it seems like a good choice. I am not keen on installing anything where access is a problem.
Can anyone thing of reasons to not do what I plan? Are there better options for these antennas?
Cheers
Les
#40643
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Kelly McMullen
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 6:00 pm Post subject: Comm Antennas |
|
|
Les,
That might be a good location for one antenna. Putting two antennas within about 2 ft of each other is not good.
I'd consider either mounting one near an access panel on underside of wing or far enough back in the tail cone to have more than 3 ft separation between antennas. Alternatives include a Bob Archer wingtip Com antenna, an antenna on the top of the fuselage. The more separation you can get, the better. Of course you also need to consider separation from your ELT antenna and from GPS antenna.
On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 5:04 PM, Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca (kearney(at)shaw.ca)> wrote:
[quote] Hi
I am planning on installing two Comant CI-122 antennas tomorrow. My plan is to fab doublers and install the antennas / doublers just aft and inboard of the fuse steps. My reason for this is I have inspection panels in that area for the steps so it seems like a good choice. I am not keen on installing anything where access is a problem.
Can anyone thing of reasons to not do what I plan? Are there better options for these antennas?
Cheers
Les
#40643
| Quote: |
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
[b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kearney
Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 8:05 pm Post subject: Comm Antennas |
|
|
Kelley
Is 3 ft the magic number? If so, I might be okay. I'll measure tomorrow.
Cheers
Les
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: June-05-10 7:59 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Comm Antennas
Les,
That might be a good location for one antenna. Putting two antennas within about 2 ft of each other is not good.
I'd consider either mounting one near an access panel on underside of wing or far enough back in the tail cone to have more than 3 ft separation between antennas. Alternatives include a Bob Archer wingtip Com antenna, an antenna on the top of the fuselage. The more separation you can get, the better. Of course you also need to consider separation from your ELT antenna and from GPS antenna.
On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 5:04 PM, Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca (kearney(at)shaw.ca)> wrote:
[quote] Hi
I am planning on installing two Comant CI-122 antennas tomorrow. My plan is to fab doublers and install the antennas / doublers just aft and inboard of the fuse steps. My reason for this is I have inspection panels in that area for the steps so it seems like a good choice. I am not keen on installing anything where access is a problem.
Can anyone thing of reasons to not do what I plan? Are there better options for these antennas?
Cheers
Les
#40643
| Quote: |
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
[b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 8:31 pm Post subject: Comm Antennas |
|
|
This is exactly the place where Deems installed his CI-122’s.
Flip through the folder:
http://www.deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2033%20Baggage%20Area/index.html
Perhaps he can give a report.
Phil
From: Les Kearney [mailto:kearney(at)shaw.ca]
Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 11:00 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Comm Antennas
Kelley
Is 3 ft the magic number? If so, I might be okay. I'll measure tomorrow.
Cheers
Les
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: June-05-10 7:59 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Comm Antennas
Les,
That might be a good location for one antenna. Putting two antennas within about 2 ft of each other is not good.
I'd consider either mounting one near an access panel on underside of wing or far enough back in the tail cone to have more than 3 ft separation between antennas. Alternatives include a Bob Archer wingtip Com antenna, an antenna on the top of the fuselage. The more separation you can get, the better. Of course you also need to consider separation from your ELT antenna and from GPS antenna.
On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 5:04 PM, Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca (kearney(at)shaw.ca)> wrote:
Hi
I am planning on installing two Comant CI-122 antennas tomorrow. My plan is to fab doublers and install the antennas / doublers just aft and inboard of the fuse steps. My reason for this is I have inspection panels in that area for the steps so it seems like a good choice. I am not keen on installing anything where access is a problem.
Can anyone thing of reasons to not do what I plan? Are there better options for these antennas?
Cheers
Les
#40643
| Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listtp://forums.matronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
| Quote: | | href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com |
0123456789 | Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
0 | Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
1 | Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
2 | Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
3 | Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
4 | Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
5 | Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
6 | Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
7 | Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
8 | Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
9 | Quote: | | tp://forums.matronics.com |
0
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kelly McMullen
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:29 am Post subject: Comm Antennas |
|
|
I believe if you look carefully, Deems put his antennas under the back seat, not inside of the step mount. That allows more separation. I believe the number generally recommended is 4 ft between antennas, but that is hard to achieve and you probably can get away with a bit less. I can tell you that belly mounted antennas are not going to have stellar performance when on the ground. Whether it is difficulty talking to ground control or a nearby remote outlet for picking up a clearance, there is a benefit from having one antenna more elevated than possible on the belly. I have one on belly and one on top of fuselage on my Mooney. Not even airborne at altitude does the belly mounted antenna give better reception than the top mounted, and on the ground the belly mounted does lose reception depending on position on the airport.
I think where Les is proposing would be good for one antenna, but I wouldn't want it too close to the steps, and I still don't think it would be desirable to have both there.
On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 9:25 PM, Perry, Phil <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com (Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com)> wrote:
[quote]
This is exactly the place where Deems installed his CI-122’s.
Flip through the folder:
http://www.deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2033%20Baggage%20Area/index.html
Perhaps he can give a report.
Phil
From: Les Kearney [mailto:kearney(at)shaw.ca (kearney(at)shaw.ca)]
Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 11:00 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Comm Antennas
Kelley
Is 3 ft the magic number? If so, I might be okay. I'll measure tomorrow.
Cheers
Les
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: June-05-10 7:59 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Comm Antennas
Les,
That might be a good location for one antenna. Putting two antennas within about 2 ft of each other is not good.
I'd consider either mounting one near an access panel on underside of wing or far enough back in the tail cone to have more than 3 ft separation between antennas. Alternatives include a Bob Archer wingtip Com antenna, an antenna on the top of the fuselage. The more separation you can get, the better. Of course you also need to consider separation from your ELT antenna and from GPS antenna.
On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 5:04 PM, Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca (kearney(at)shaw.ca)> wrote:
Hi
I am planning on installing two Comant CI-122 antennas tomorrow. My plan is to fab doublers and install the antennas / doublers just aft and inboard of the fuse steps. My reason for this is I have inspection panels in that area for the steps so it seems like a good choice. I am not keen on installing anything where access is a problem.
Can anyone thing of reasons to not do what I plan? Are there better options for these antennas?
Cheers
Les
#40643
0 123456 789 012
3 45678 90
1
[b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Strasnuts
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 502
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:35 am Post subject: Re: Comm Antennas |
|
|
I agree with Kelly,
I installed one comm on the bottom under the rear seats and I have one going on the top.
I've had numerous occasions in the citation when ground or clearance won't hear me on the bottom antenna and when I switch over to the number two, which is on the top, they have me 5 by 5. After I taxi out to the runway I can switch back to the bottom and speak to tower. The bottom is also better when airborne.
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
_________________
40936
RV-10 SB N801VR Flying
780 Hours
SuperSTOL 60 hours |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:51 am Post subject: Comm Antennas |
|
|
Yeah, that’s true Kelly. Deems are a little further forward and that gives a little bit of extra space between them.
I’d still be interested in knowing how it’s working out though.
From: Kelly McMullen [mailto:apilot2(at)gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 7:26 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Comm Antennas
I believe if you look carefully, Deems put his antennas under the back seat, not inside of the step mount. That allows more separation. I believe the number generally recommended is 4 ft between antennas, but that is hard to achieve and you probably can get away with a bit less. I can tell you that belly mounted antennas are not going to have stellar performance when on the ground. Whether it is difficulty talking to ground control or a nearby remote outlet for picking up a clearance, there is a benefit from having one antenna more elevated than possible on the belly. I have one on belly and one on top of fuselage on my Mooney. Not even airborne at altitude does the belly mounted antenna give better reception than the top mounted, and on the ground the belly mounted does lose reception depending on position on the airport.
I think where Les is proposing would be good for one antenna, but I wouldn't want it too close to the steps, and I still don't think it would be desirable to have both there.
On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 9:25 PM, Perry, Phil <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com (Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com)> wrote:
This is exactly the place where Deems installed his CI-122’s.
Flip through the folder:
http://www.deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2033%20Baggage%20Area/index.html
Perhaps he can give a report.
Phil
From: Les Kearney [mailto:kearney(at)shaw.ca (kearney(at)shaw.ca)]
Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 11:00 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Comm Antennas
Kelley
Is 3 ft the magic number? If so, I might be okay. I'll measure tomorrow.
Cheers
Les
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: June-05-10 7:59 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Comm Antennas
Les,
That might be a good location for one antenna. Putting two antennas within about 2 ft of each other is not good.
I'd consider either mounting one near an access panel on underside of wing or far enough back in the tail cone to have more than 3 ft separation between antennas. Alternatives include a Bob Archer wingtip Com antenna, an antenna on the top of the fuselage. The more separation you can get, the better. Of course you also need to consider separation from your ELT antenna and from GPS antenna.
On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 5:04 PM, Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca (kearney(at)shaw.ca)> wrote:
Hi
I am planning on installing two Comant CI-122 antennas tomorrow. My plan is to fab doublers and install the antennas / doublers just aft and inboard of the fuse steps. My reason for this is I have inspection panels in that area for the steps so it seems like a good choice. I am not keen on installing anything where access is a problem.
Can anyone thing of reasons to not do what I plan? Are there better options for these antennas?
Cheers
Les
#40643
| Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listtp://forums.matronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
| Quote: | | href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com |
0123
4 56
789 | Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
0 | Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
1 | Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
2 | Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
3
| Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
4 | Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
5 | Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
6 | Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
7 | Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
8 | Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
9 | Quote: | | tp://forums.matronics.com |
0 | Quote: | | tp://forums.matronics.com |
1 | Quote: | | tp://forums.matronics.com |
2 | Quote: | | tp://forums.matronics.com |
3 | Quote: | | tp://forums.matronics.com |
4 | Quote: | | tp://forums.matronics.com |
5 | Quote: | | tp://forums.matronics.com |
6 | Quote: | | tp://forums.matronics.com |
7 | Quote: | | tp://forums.matronics.com |
8 | Quote: | | tp://forums.matronics.com |
9 | Quote: | | _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
0 | Quote: | | _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
1 | Quote: | | _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
2 | Quote: | | _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
3
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Deems Davis
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 925
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:35 am Post subject: Comm Antennas |
|
|
I've not experienced any problems with ground operations. once caveat however, I have not had occasion to contact a remote facility while on the ground.
Deems
On 6/6/2010 6:51 AM, Perry, Phil wrote: [quote] v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} <![endif]--> <![endif]--> <![endif]-->
Yeah, that’s true Kelly. Deems are a little further forward and that gives a little bit of extra space between them.
I’d still be interested in knowing how it’s working out though.
From: Kelly McMullen [mailto:apilot2(at)gmail.com (apilot2(at)gmail.com)]
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 7:26 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Comm Antennas
I believe if you look carefully, Deems put his antennas under the back seat, not inside of the step mount. That allows more separation. I believe the number generally recommended is 4 ft between antennas, but that is hard to achieve and you probably can get away with a bit less. I can tell you that belly mounted antennas are not going to have stellar performance when on the ground. Whether it is difficulty talking to ground control or a nearby remote outlet for picking up a clearance, there is a benefit from having one antenna more elevated than possible on the belly. I have one on belly and one on top of fuselage on my Mooney. Not even airborne at altitude does the belly mounted antenna give better reception than the top mounted, and on the ground the belly mounted does lose reception depending on position on the airport.
I think where Les is proposing would be good for one antenna, but I wouldn't want it too close to the steps, and I still don't think it would be desirable to have both there.
On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 9:25 PM, Perry, Phil <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com (Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com)> wrote:
This is exactly the place where Deems installed his CI-122’s.
Flip through the folder:
http://www.deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2033%20Baggage%20Area/index.html
Perhaps he can give a report.
Phil
From: Les Kearney [mailto:kearney(at)shaw.ca (kearney(at)shaw.ca)]
Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 11:00 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Comm Antennas
Kelley
Is 3 ft the magic number? If so, I might be okay. I'll measure tomorrow.
Cheers
Les
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: June-05-10 7:59 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Comm Antennas
Les,
That might be a good location for one antenna. Putting two antennas within about 2 ft of each other is not good.
I'd consider either mounting one near an access panel on underside of wing or far enough back in the tail cone to have more than 3 ft separation between antennas. Alternatives include a Bob Archer wingtip Com antenna, an antenna on the top of the fuselage. The more separation you can get, the better. Of course you also need to consider separation from your ELT antenna and from GPS antenna.
On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 5:04 PM, Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca (kearney(at)shaw.ca)> wrote:
Hi
I am planning on installing two Comant CI-122 antennas tomorrow. My plan is to fab doublers and install the antennas / doublers just aft and inboard of the fuse steps. My reason for this is I have inspection panels in that area for the steps so it seems like a good choice. I am not keen on installing anything where access is a problem.
Can anyone thing of reasons to not do what I plan? Are there better options for these antennas?
Cheers
Les
#40643
| Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listtp://forums.matronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
| Quote: | | href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com |
0 1 2 3
4 5 6
7 8 9 | Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
0 | Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
1 | Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
2 | Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
3
| Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
4 | Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
5 | Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
6 | Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
7 | Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
8 | Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
9 | Quote: | | tp://forums.matronics.com |
0 | Quote: | | tp://forums.matronics.com |
1 | Quote: | | tp://forums.matronics.com |
2 | Quote: | | tp://forums.matronics.com |
3 | Quote: | | tp://forums.matronics.com |
4 | Quote: | | tp://forums.matronics.com |
5 | Quote: | | tp://forums.matronics.com |
6 | Quote: | | tp://forums.matronics.com |
7 | Quote: | | tp://forums.matronics.com |
8 | Quote: | | tp://forums.matronics.com |
9 | Quote: | | _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
0 | Quote: | | _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
1 | Quote: | | _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
2 | Quote: | | _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
3
| Quote: | | _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
4 [b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bcondrey
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 580
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:35 am Post subject: Comm Antennas |
|
|
I've got mine located wher Deems has his and haven't had an issue in over 2 years of flying that way.
Bob
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Sun Jun 06 06:51:08 2010
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Comm Antennas
Yeah, that’s true Kelly. Deems are a little further forward and that gives a little bit of extra space between them.
I’d still be interested in knowing how it’s working out though.
From: Kelly McMullen [mailto:apilot2(at)gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 7:26 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Comm Antennas
I believe if you look carefully, Deems put his antennas under the back seat, not inside of the step mount. That allows more separation. I believe the number generally recommended is 4 ft between antennas, but that is hard to achieve and you probably can get away with a bit less. I can tell you that belly mounted antennas are not going to have stellar performance when on the ground. Whether it is difficulty talking to ground control or a nearby remote outlet for picking up a clearance, there is a benefit from having one antenna more elevated than possible on the belly. I have one on belly and one on top of fuselage on my Mooney. Not even airborne at altitude does the belly mounted antenna give better reception than the top mounted, and on the ground the belly mounted does lose reception depending on position on the airport.
I think where Les is proposing would be good for one antenna, but I wouldn't want it too close to the steps, and I still don't think it would be desirable to have both there.
On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 9:25 PM, Perry, Phil <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com<mailto:Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com>> wrote:
This is exactly the place where Deems installed his CI-122’s.
Flip through the folder:
http://www.deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2033%20Baggage%20Area/index.html
Perhaps he can give a report.
Phil
From: Les Kearney [mailto:kearney(at)shaw.ca<mailto:kearney(at)shaw.ca>]
Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 11:00 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com<mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Comm Antennas
Kelley
Is 3 ft the magic number? If so, I might be okay. I'll measure tomorrow.
Cheers
Les
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com<mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com<mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com>] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: June-05-10 7:59 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com<mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Comm Antennas
Les,
That might be a good location for one antenna. Putting two antennas within about 2 ft of each other is not good.
I'd consider either mounting one near an access panel on underside of wing or far enough back in the tail cone to have more than 3 ft separation between antennas. Alternatives include a Bob Archer wingtip Com antenna, an antenna on the top of the fuselage. The more separation you can get, the better. Of course you also need to consider separation from your ELT antenna and from GPS antenna.
On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 5:04 PM, Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca<mailto:kearney(at)shaw.ca>> wrote:
Hi
I am planning on installing two Comant CI-122 antennas tomorrow. My plan is to fab doublers and install the antennas / doublers just aft and inboard of the fuse steps. My reason for this is I have inspection panels in that area for the steps so it seems like a good choice. I am not keen on installing anything where access is a problem.
Can anyone thing of reasons to not do what I plan? Are there better options for these antennas?
Cheers
Les
#40643
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
tp://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com>
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rene(at)felker.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:51 am Post subject: Comm Antennas |
|
|
I had mine in the same position, and had a problem communicating with towers on the lower end of the frequency spectrum (118.1 --118.3). So I moved one of the antennas up to the top and left the other on the bottom. Have not seen any problems since.
For ref:Â Home field, KOGD (Ogden Utah)Â Tower 118, never had a problem
Problems encountered:Â Boise (KBOI) Tower 118.1
Salt Lake City (KSLC) Tower 118.3
Problems encounter during ground operations all the times except once, they could not hear me one time after I was initially handed off…..at least that is what they said……
Just my experience. I noticed a .12673 Knot decrease in cruise speed with the antenna change……..just kidding of course.
Rene' Felker
N423CF
801-721-6080
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob (US SSA)
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 8:23 AM
To: 'rv10-list(at)matronics.com'
Subject: Re: Comm Antennas
I've got mine located wher Deems has his and haven't had an issue in over 2 years of flying that way.
Bob
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Sun Jun 06 06:51:08 2010
Subject: RE: Comm Antennas
Yeah, that’s true Kelly. Deems are a little further forward and that gives a little bit of extra space between them.
I’d still be interested in knowing how it’s working out though.
From: Kelly McMullen [mailto:apilot2(at)gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 7:26 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Comm Antennas
I believe if you look carefully, Deems put his antennas under the back seat, not inside of the step mount. That allows more separation. I believe the number generally recommended is 4 ft between antennas, but that is hard to achieve and you probably can get away with a bit less. I can tell you that belly mounted antennas are not going to have stellar performance when on the ground. Whether it is difficulty talking to ground control or a nearby remote outlet for picking up a clearance, there is a benefit from having one antenna more elevated than possible on the belly. I have one on belly and one on top of fuselage on my Mooney. Not even airborne at altitude does the belly mounted antenna give better reception than the top mounted, and on the ground the belly mounted does lose reception depending on position on the airport.
I think where Les is proposing would be good for one antenna, but I wouldn't want it too close to the steps, and I still don't think it would be desirable to have both there.
On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 9:25 PM, Perry, Phil <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com (Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com)> wrote:
This is exactly the place where Deems installed his CI-122’s.
Flip through the folder:
http://www.deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2033%20Baggage%20Area/index.html
Perhaps he can give a report.
Phil
From: Les Kearney [mailto:kearney(at)shaw.ca (kearney(at)shaw.ca)]
Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 11:00 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Comm Antennas
Kelley
Is 3 ft the magic number? If so, I might be okay. I'll measure tomorrow.
Cheers
Les
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: June-05-10 7:59 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Comm Antennas
Les,
That might be a good location for one antenna. Putting two antennas within about 2 ft of each other is not good.
I'd consider either mounting one near an access panel on underside of wing or far enough back in the tail cone to have more than 3 ft separation between antennas. Alternatives include a Bob Archer wingtip Com antenna, an antenna on the top of the fuselage. The more separation you can get, the better. Of course you also need to consider separation from your ELT antenna and from GPS antenna.
On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 5:04 PM, Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca (kearney(at)shaw.ca)> wrote:
Hi
I am planning on installing two Comant CI-122 antennas tomorrow. My plan is to fab doublers and install the antennas / doublers just aft and inboard of the fuse steps. My reason for this is I have inspection panels in that area for the steps so it seems like a good choice. I am not keen on installing anything where access is a problem.
Can anyone thing of reasons to not do what I plan? Are there better options for these antennas?
Cheers
Les
#40643
| Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listtp://forums.matronics.com_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
| Quote: | | href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com |
0123
4 56
789 | Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
0 | Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
1 | Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
2 | Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
3
| Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
4 | Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
5 | Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
6 | Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
7 | Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
8 | Quote: | | get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
9 | Quote: | | tp://forums.matronics.com |
0<    - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS via the Web   --> http://forums.matronics.com        - List Contribution Web generous                        -Matt http://www.matronics.com/c=[/b]tp://forums.matronics.com[/quote]1
~�Ţg(ÓŤÓ‡qzn
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wwc4(at)njit.edu
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:13 am Post subject: Comm Antennas |
|
|
Agree with Kelly on this. Even Cirrus with their all composite airframes have one antenna on the top and the other on the belly. Certainly if one wants to follow function over form and there is no concern for remote ground reception, dual belly antennas will be fine.
On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 9:59 PM, Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com (apilot2(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Les,
That might be a good location for one antenna. Putting two antennas within about 2 ft of each other is not good.
I'd consider either mounting one near an access panel on underside of wing or far enough back in the tail cone to have more than 3 ft separation between antennas. Alternatives include a Bob Archer wingtip Com antenna, an antenna on the top of the fuselage. The more separation you can get, the better. Of course you also need to consider separation from your ELT antenna and from GPS antenna.
|
--
William
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/90Electrical/antenna.html
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:26 am Post subject: Comm Antennas |
|
|
No problems here either. Maybe metal whips are less prone to issues due to size/design?
Tim
On Jun 6, 2010, at 9:14 AM, Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net (deemsdavis(at)cox.net)> wrote:
[quote] I've not experienced any problems with ground operations. once caveat however, I have not had occasion to contact a remote facility while on the ground.
Deems
On 6/6/2010 6:51 AM, Perry, Phil wrote: | Quote: | v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} <![endif]--> <![endif]--> <![endif]-->
Yeah, that’s true Kelly. Deems are a little further forward and that gives a little bit of extra space between them.
I’d still be interested in knowing how it’s working out though.
From: Kelly McMullen [[url=mailto:apilot2(at)gmail.com]mailto:apilot2(at)gmail.com (apilot2(at)gmail.com)[/url]]
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 7:26 AM
To: [url=mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com]rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)[/url]
Subject: Re: Comm Antennas
I believe if you look carefully, Deems put his antennas under the back seat, not inside of the step mount. That allows more separation. I believe the number generally recommended is 4 ft between antennas, but that is hard to achieve and you probably can get away with a bit less. I can tell you that belly mounted antennas are not going to have stellar performance when on the ground. Whether it is difficulty talking to ground control or a nearby remote outlet for picking up a clearance, there is a benefit from having one antenna more elevated than possible on the belly. I have one on belly and one on top of fuselage on my Mooney. Not even airborne at altitude does the belly mounted antenna give better reception than the top mounted, and on the ground the belly mounted does lose reception depending on position on the airport.
I think where Les is proposing would be good for one antenna, but I wouldn't want it too close to the steps, and I still don't think it would be desirable to have both there.
On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 9:25 PM, Perry, Phil <[url=mailto:Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com]Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com (Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com)[/url]> wrote:
This is exactly the place where Deems installed his CI-122’s.
Flip through the folder:
http://www.deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2033%20Baggage%20Area/index.html
Perhaps he can give a report.
Phil
From: Les Kearney [mailto:[url=mailto:kearney(at)shaw.ca]kearney(at)shaw.ca (kearney(at)shaw.ca)[/url]]
Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 11:00 PM
To: [url=mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com]rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)[/url]
Subject: RE: Comm Antennas
Kelley
Is 3 ft the magic number? If so, I might be okay. I'll measure tomorrow.
Cheers
Les
From: [url=mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)[/url] [mailto:[url=mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)[/url]] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: June-05-10 7:59 PM
To: [url=mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com]rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)[/url]
Subject: Re: Comm Antennas
Les,
That might be a good location for one antenna. Putting two antennas within about 2 ft of each other is not good.
I'd consider either mounting one near an access panel on underside of wing or far enough back in the tail cone to have more than 3 ft separation between antennas. Alternatives include a Bob Archer wingtip Com antenna, an antenna on the top of the fuselage. The more separation you can get, the better. Of course you also need to consider separation from your ELT antenna and from GPS antenna.
On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 5:04 PM, Les Kearney <[url=mailto:kearney(at)shaw.ca]kearney(at)shaw.ca (kearney(at)shaw.ca)[/url]> wrote:
Hi
I am planning on installing two Comant CI-122 antennas tomorrow. My plan is to fab doublers and install the antennas / doublers just aft and inboard of the fuse steps. My reason for this is I have inspection panels in that area for the steps so it seems like a good choice. I am not keen on installing anything where access is a problem.
Can anyone thing of reasons to not do what I plan? Are there better options for these antennas?
Cheers
Les
#40643
0 1 2 3
4 5 6
7 8 9 0 1 2 3
4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3
4 _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
5
[b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pilotdds(at)aol.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:48 am Post subject: Comm Antennas |
|
|
does the transponder antenna need to be considered and what about ads-b transceiver antenna? nav and gps are receive only but do they need to be considered?I am not a fan of the archer ant for an ifr ship,in my experince they are quirky(I think thats a word).
--
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rleffler
Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 680
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:23 pm Post subject: Comm Antennas |
|
|
Short answer, Yes……
GPS needs to be on top.    Cat whiskers can go on the top of the vertical or on the bottom of the tail, since you aren’t using the archer (I’m not a fan either). While Commant states that they should point forward, there are many RVs with them pointing aft underneath the empennage.    I would also suggest reading the install manual for your ads-b equipment.  NavWork is pretty up front, for an example, here’s an excerpt: Â
[img]cid:image001.png(at)01CB0593.6B46BB00[/img]
I haven’t put in either of these yet, but I’m thinking the transponder will go in the tunnel near the firewall and the ADS-B will be back by the battery someplace.
bob
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of pilotdds(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 2:47 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Comm Antennas
does the transponder antenna need to be considered and what about ads-b transceiver antenna? nav and gps are receive only but do they need to be considered?I am not a fan of the archer ant for an ifr ship,in my experince they are quirky(I think thats a word).
--
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
| Description: |
|
| Filesize: |
22.75 KB |
| Viewed: |
6026 Time(s) |
|
_________________
Bob Leffler
N410BL - Phase I
http://mykitlog.com/rleffler |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dick Sipp
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Hope, MI
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:43 pm Post subject: Comm Antennas |
|
|
My com antennas are where Deems and most others have reported, below rear seat floors with good performance. Transponder is on belly centerline about 10 inches aft of firewall. In the past few months I have been getting an occasional report of intermittent response, seems to be when the radar sight is on the nose at relatively close range, most sites report normal ops after a few minutes of outage at most. VOR is Archer in wing tip, works fine.
I have a back up GPS and XM antennas mounted on the firewall under the top cowling, they both work fine.
Dick Sipp
N110DV 285 hours
From: pilotdds(at)aol.com (pilotdds(at)aol.com)
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 2:46 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Comm Antennas
does the transponder antenna need to be considered and what about ads-b transceiver antenna? nav and gps are receive only but do they need to be considered?I am not a fan of the archer ant for an ifr ship,in my experince they are quirky(I think thats a word).
[quote] [b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
martinaerodrome(at)gmail.
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 5:18 am Post subject: Comm Antennas |
|
|
consider one Dorne & Margolen (DM) antenna on the belly with a diplexer inside of the airplane. The DM antenna will increase your range substantially and the diplexer will eliminate the need for 2 antennae. I noticed that after I installed the DM antenna (removed the comants) my range increased by at least 50 percent.
good luck.
Dick Martin
RV8 N233m
the fast one
On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 8:59 PM, Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com (apilot2(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]Les,
That might be a good location for one antenna. Putting two antennas within about 2 ft of each other is not good.
I'd consider either mounting one near an access panel on underside of wing or far enough back in the tail cone to have more than 3 ft separation between antennas. Alternatives include a Bob Archer wingtip Com antenna, an antenna on the top of the fuselage. The more separation you can get, the better. Of course you also need to consider separation from your ELT antenna and from GPS antenna.
On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 5:04 PM, Les Kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca (kearney(at)shaw.ca)> wrote:
| Quote: | Hi
I am planning on installing two Comant CI-122 antennas tomorrow. My plan is to fab doublers and install the antennas / doublers just aft and inboard of the fuse steps. My reason for this is I have inspection panels in that area for the steps so it seems like a good choice. I am not keen on installing anything where access is a problem.
Can anyone thing of reasons to not do what I plan? Are there better options for these antennas?
Cheers
Les
#40643
|
| Quote: |
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
[b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bob Turner
Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:26 am Post subject: Re: Comm Antennas |
|
|
I don't think the last suggestion will work. The usual passive splitter (diplexer?) will allow half the transmitter power to go directly into the second com radio--not good. Also these matched splitters may or may not handle thepower. If you put an active switch for the diplexer then you won't be able to hear on both radios simultaneously.
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
