curhaw(at)adelphia.net
Guest
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 Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:23 pm Post subject: RV10-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 06/14/10 |
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Please remove curtis hawkins from your E-Mailing list. I'm no longer
involved with the RV'. Curt
--------------------------------------------------
From: "RV10-List Digest Server" <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 11:59 PM
To: "RV10-List Digest List" <rv10-list-digest(at)matronics.com>
Subject: RV10-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 06/14/10
[quote] *
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----------------------------------------------------------
RV10-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Mon 06/14/10: 22
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:42 AM - Re: Crow Harnesses (David Maib)
2. 07:04 AM - Re: Crow Harnesses (Larry Rosen)
3. 07:35 AM - Center Tunnel (Albert Gardner)
4. 07:49 AM - Re: Center Tunnel (Linn Walters)
5. 07:53 AM - Re: Center Tunnel (Perry, Phil)
6. 08:24 AM - Re: Center Tunnel (Kelly McMullen)
7. 08:38 AM - Re: Center Tunnel (Albert Gardner)
8. 08:38 AM - Re: Center Tunnel (Jesse Saint)
9. 10:33 AM - Halotron fire extinguisher (Lew Gallagher)
10. 10:34 AM - Re: Five point harness? (Bill Mauledriver Watson)
11. 10:44 AM - Re: Center Tunnel (John Cox)
12. 11:07 AM - Re: Crow Harnesses (n277dl)
13. 11:25 AM - Re: Halotron fire extinguisher (Tim Olson)
14. 12:09 PM - Re: Center Tunnel (Kelly McMullen)
15. 12:27 PM - Re: Halotron fire extinguisher (Lew Gallagher)
16. 12:39 PM - Re: weight/balance (John Cumins)
17. 12:49 PM - Re: Halotron fire extinguisher (Tim Olson)
18. 03:51 PM - Re: Center Tunnel (Deems Davis)
19. 04:56 PM - OSH Camping RV10 HQ (Deems Davis)
20. 06:47 PM - Re: Center Tunnel (bob-tcw)
21. 10:00 PM - Re: Center Tunnel (Strasnuts)
22. 10:00 PM - Re: Center Tunnel (Strasnuts)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 06:42:47 AM PST US
From: David Maib <dmaib(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: Crow Harnesses
Rob,
I talked to the folks at Crow and they told me how to measure for the
correct lengths. It has been a couple of years ago and I don't
remember what the measurements were. I would call Crow and ask. I am
very happy with my Crow belts and harnesses.
David Maib
40559
On Jun 14, 2010, at 12:38 AM, Rob Kochman wrote:
Dave, did you ever get this figured out? Any other -10 builders use
the Crow harnesses?
-Rob
On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 12:54 PM, dmaib(at)mac.com <dmaib(at)mac.com> wrote:
I am planning on ordering Crow harnesses and would like to know if
anybody knows the correct measurements for front and rear seats?
Shoulder harnesses and lap belts. [Question]
--------
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=184229#184229
br> nics.com/Navigator?RV10-List" target="_blank">http://
www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
t="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
le, List Admin.
====
--
Rob Kochman
RV-10 "Finishing" Kit
Woodinville, WA (near Seattle)
http://kochman.net/N819K
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 07:04:25 AM PST US
From: Larry Rosen <N205EN(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Crow Harnesses
Vic Syracuse use Crow harnesses in his RV-10.
Larry Rosen
Rob Kochman wrote:
> Dave, did you ever get this figured out? Any other -10 builders use
> the Crow harnesses?
>
> -Rob
>
> On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 12:54 PM, dmaib(at)mac.com <mailto:dmaib(at)mac.com>
> <dmaib(at)mac.com <mailto:dmaib(at)mac.com>> wrote:
>
> <mailto:dmaib(at)mac.com>" <dmaib(at)mac.com <mailto:dmaib(at)mac.com>>
>
> I am planning on ordering Crow harnesses and would like to know if
> anybody knows the correct measurements for front and rear seats?
> Shoulder harnesses and lap belts. [Question]
>
> --------
> David Maib
> RV-10 #40559
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=184229#184229
> br> nics.com/Navigator?RV10-List"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> t="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> le, List Admin.
> ====
> --
> Rob Kochman
> RV-10 "Finishing" Kit
> Woodinville, WA (near Seattle)
> http://kochman.net/N819K
> *
> *
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
Time: 07:35:45 AM PST US
From: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com>
Subject: Center Tunnel
After reading about the explosion/fire in the RV-10 possibly due to a fuel
leak in the tunnel I took a look at mine just to check since it has been
awhile since the annual inspection. No leaks but I still don't like the
spillage associated with opening the filter for inspection/cleaning. One
thing I changed was the routing of the brake lines. Page 36-3 routes the
lines almost against the floor making cleanup difficult. I changed the
orientation of the cushion clamps so that the brake line is held up off
the
floor and cleanup is much easier.
Now I'm looking at the idea of accessing the filter through the bottom of
the tunnel so that no fuel is spilled inside cleaning the filter. Also,
getting in the tunnel from the top is difficult as the rudder cables must
be
disconnected, seats removed, and carpet removed to get access to the
tunnel
cover.
I'm thinking of installing a cup holder in the tunnel cover so that I
could
easily inspect the interior by pulling out the cup holder and shinning a
flashlight in there without removing anything else.
Albert Gardner
N991RV
Yume, AZ
________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
Time: 07:49:30 AM PST US
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Center Tunnel
You could remove the tunnel filter and put it under the front seat, and
buy a second one for the other side. Far more room to swing a wrench
and get your hands on the filter. Before I put the wings on, I'll seal
the fuel lines at the root and draw a vacuum on the system to the
firewall ..... Don't want any slow leaks.
Linn
do not archive.
Albert Gardner wrote:
>
> After reading about the explosion/fire in the RV-10 possibly due to a
> fuel leak in the tunnel I took a look at mine just to check since it
> has been awhile since the annual inspection. No leaks but I still
> don't like the spillage associated with opening the filter for
> inspection/cleaning. One thing I changed was the routing of the brake
> lines. Page 36-3 routes the lines almost against the floor making
> cleanup difficult. I changed the orientation of the cushion clamps so
> that the brake line is held up off the floor and cleanup is much easier.
>
> Now I'm looking at the idea of accessing the filter through the bottom
> of the tunnel so that no fuel is spilled inside cleaning the filter.
> Also, getting in the tunnel from the top is difficult as the rudder
> cables must be disconnected, seats removed, and carpet removed to get
> access to the tunnel cover.
>
> I'm thinking of installing a cup holder in the tunnel cover so that I
> could easily inspect the interior by pulling out the cup holder and
> shinning a flashlight in there without removing anything else.
>
> Albert Gardner
>
> N991RV
>
> Yume, AZ
>
> *
> *
________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
Time: 07:53:48 AM PST US
Subject: RE: Center Tunnel
From: "Perry, Phil" <Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com>
I changed the orientation of the cushion clamps so that the brake line
is held up off the floor and cleanup is much easier.
I did the same thing on mine, but I'm not 100% committed to it yet. I
might turn them back correctly.
My bigger concern were the brake lines rubbing on the shop-head-side of
the rivets that are directly below the lines. With the cushion clamps
held in their "correct" position, the brake lines aren't more than 1/32
- 1/16" off those shop heads and I didn't want the rivets working my
brake lines. (BTW - I'm using Bonaco lines all the way through the
tunnel.)
I'd like the clamps to be oriented correctly, but I don't like the
possibility of the rivets working on those lines. I've been trying to
come up with a rub-barrier that I can insert between the rivets and the
lines, but I haven't come up with anything yet. So I might end up
flipping the clamps over too, but with flex lines, I'd really need to be
careful that they don't eventually rotate down a few degrees pushing the
flex lines back down on the rivets (again). J
There has to be a barrier we could put in there to keep the lines off
the rivet tails.
Phil
From: Albert Gardner [mailto:ibspud(at)roadrunner.com]
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 9:32 AM
Subject: Center Tunnel
After reading about the explosion/fire in the RV-10 possibly due to a
fuel leak in the tunnel I took a look at mine just to check since it has
been awhile since the annual inspection. No leaks but I still don't like
the spillage associated with opening the filter for inspection/cleaning.
One thing I changed was the routing of the brake lines. Page 36-3 routes
the lines almost against the floor making cleanup difficult. I changed
the orientation of the cushion clamps so that the brake line is held up
off the floor and cleanup is much easier.
Now I'm looking at the idea of accessing the filter through the bottom
of the tunnel so that no fuel is spilled inside cleaning the filter.
Also, getting in the tunnel from the top is difficult as the rudder
cables must be disconnected, seats removed, and carpet removed to get
access to the tunnel cover.
I'm thinking of installing a cup holder in the tunnel cover so that I
could easily inspect the interior by pulling out the cup holder and
shinning a flashlight in there without removing anything else.
Albert Gardner
N991RV
Yume, AZ
________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
Time: 08:24:08 AM PST US
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: Center Tunnel
Side access panel makes it easier. Bob Leffler has a picture of it on
his site. I'm not finding the web link for ordering the kit right now.
Seems like Air Ward was the vendor, but paperwork is at the hangar.
On 6/14/2010 7:32 AM, Albert Gardner wrote:
>
> After reading about the explosion/fire in the RV-10 possibly due to a
> fuel leak in the tunnel I took a look at mine just to check since it
> has been awhile since the annual inspection. No leaks but I still
> don't like the spillage associated with opening the filter for
> inspection/cleaning. One thing I changed was the routing of the brake
> lines. Page 36-3 routes the lines almost against the floor making
> cleanup difficult. I changed the orientation of the cushion clamps so
> that the brake line is held up off the floor and cleanup is much easier.
>
> Now I'm looking at the idea of accessing the filter through the bottom
> of the tunnel so that no fuel is spilled inside cleaning the filter.
> Also, getting in the tunnel from the top is difficult as the rudder
> cables must be disconnected, seats removed, and carpet removed to get
> access to the tunnel cover.
>
> I'm thinking of installing a cup holder in the tunnel cover so that I
> could easily inspect the interior by pulling out the cup holder and
> shinning a flashlight in there without removing anything else.
>
> Albert Gardner
>
> N991RV
>
> Yume, AZ
>
> *
> *
________________________________ Message 7
_____________________________________
Time: 08:38:23 AM PST US
From: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com>
Subject: RE: Center Tunnel
I had the same concern about the close proximity of the rivets and the
brake
line so I slid rubber tubing over the lines in the area between the
cushion
clamps. I
suppose that also made it a little harder to clean up under the brake
lines
though.
Albert Gardner
N991RV
Yuma, AZ
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 7:53 AM
Subject: RE: Center Tunnel
I changed the orientation of the cushion clamps so that the brake line is
held up off the floor and cleanup is much easier.
I did the same thing on mine, but I'm not 100% committed to it yet. I
might
turn them back correctly.
My bigger concern were the brake lines rubbing on the shop-head-side of
the
rivets that are directly below the lines. With the cushion clamps held in
their "correct" position, the brake lines aren't more than 1/32 - 1/16"
off
those shop heads and I didn't want the rivets working my brake lines.
(BTW
- I'm using Bonaco lines all the way through the tunnel.)
I'd like the clamps to be oriented correctly, but I don't like the
possibility of the rivets working on those lines. I've been trying to
come
up with a rub-barrier that I can insert between the rivets and the lines,
but I haven't come up with anything yet. So I might end up flipping the
clamps over too, but with flex lines, I'd really need to be careful that
they don't eventually rotate down a few degrees pushing the flex lines
back
down on the rivets (again). J
There has to be a barrier we could put in there to keep the lines off the
rivet tails.
Phil
________________________________ Message 8
_____________________________________
Time: 08:38:50 AM PST US
From: Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com>
Subject: Re: Center Tunnel
This is a great way to do it, but don't forget that you will need to
drain your fuel tanks before cleaning the filters.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Jun 14, 2010, at 10:42 AM, Linn Walters wrote:
> You could remove the tunnel filter and put it under the front seat,
and buy a second one for the other side. Far more room to swing a
wrench and get your hands on the filter. Before I put the wings on,
I'll seal the fuel lines at the root and draw a vacuum on the system to
the firewall ..... Don't want any slow leaks.
> Linn
> do not archive.
>
> Albert Gardner wrote:
>>
>> After reading about the explosion/fire in the RV-10 possibly due to a
fuel leak in the tunnel I took a look at mine just to check since it has
been awhile since the annual inspection. No leaks but I still don't like
the spillage associated with opening the filter for inspection/cleaning.
One thing I changed was the routing of the brake lines. Page 36-3 routes
the lines almost against the floor making cleanup difficult. I changed
the orientation of the cushion clamps so that the brake line is held up
off the floor and cleanup is much easier.
>>
>> Now I'm looking at the idea of accessing the filter through the
bottom of the tunnel so that no fuel is spilled inside cleaning the
filter. Also, getting in the tunnel from the top is difficult as the
rudder cables must be disconnected, seats removed, and carpet removed to
get access to the tunnel cover.
>>
>> I'm thinking of installing a cup holder in the tunnel cover so that I
could easily inspect the interior by pulling out the cup holder and
shinning a flashlight in there without removing anything else.
>>
>> Albert Gardner
>> N991RV
>> Yume, AZ
>>
>>
>>
>>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution
>>
>
>
________________________________ Message 9
_____________________________________
Time: 10:33:54 AM PST US
Subject: Halotron fire extinguisher
From: "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall(at)charter.net>
Hey Guys,
With the discussion about the tunnel fire/explosion, I decided to follow
up on
some of the discussions about tunnel/FF nozzles, extinguishers, etc. When
I called
the guy that does my building's fire inspections, he said they haven't
made
Halon extinguishers since the mid nineties, and that they only do Halotron
now. No flurocarbons, no residue, doesn't destroy electrical, etc. So I
ordered
a 2.5 lb one from him (Buckeye, 70256, $88.00).
Am I late on this? Is this what everyone is installing now? I searched
briefly
and didn't see any reference to it, so I thought I'd ask.
By the way, the one follow up report on the fire was very generic, and I'd
love
to hear more from the pilot other than that one quick response where he
said
he thought he may have hit the flap switch, and that they're basically OK.
Fuel
lines, pump -- anything left to diagnose what happened?
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Fly off completed !
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301200#301200
________________________________ Message 10
____________________________________
Time: 10:34:59 AM PST US
From: Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Five point harness?
4 point planned here. Might feel different if I had precious little
frequent flyers.
Nice for acro but that has little to do with the '10.
Had one in a couple of sailplanes. Staying in the seat was a challenge
when ridge running but the 5th point only beat up my crotch. Found
cinching up the lap belts was best. But the reclining position you have
in a hi-perf sailplane has little to do with the '10.
Bill
Carl Froehlich wrote:
>
> All,
>
> Looking for the general consensus, 5 point harness for the rear seats
> or 4 point?
>
> Carl Froehlich
>
> RV-8A (540 hrs)
>
> RV-10 (systems install)
>
> *
> *
________________________________ Message 11
____________________________________
Time: 10:44:42 AM PST US
Subject: RE: Center Tunnel
From: John Cox <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>
A great rule of thumb is a minimum of 0.125" from any surface (we often
try
for 0.375") which could otherwise chafe lines during the airframe's life.
During the Conditional, it's the guy inspecting that must (should) look fo
r new chafes, dents and damage before the hydro-carbons find a new path to
freedom. The Adels help the inspector get under there with an inspection
mi
rror. Dan Checkoway had excellent examples of where even the best of his
p
lans and well intentioned construction could overlook those contact
points.
Adel clamps - MS21919DWG are a solid means to build in such protection.
They can be a bitch but those Aircraft Spruce Pliers seem nifty. There are
aluminum spacers (in various heights) that allow for stacking of Adels or
f
or staggering. Always try to route wiring above and 6" away from
hydro-car
bon lines. Paul Grimstad had some nifty foam adhesive pads that
electricia
ns use that could help.
Although the AC 43.13 is boring, it can serve as a good clarifying
referenc
e.
I won't speak for VANs but I doubt they would say "Forgetaboutit... just
bu
ild it". Oh, that's right. KS has said that before.
John Cox
From: Perry, Phil
Sent: Mon 6/14/2010 7:53 AM
Subject: RE: Center Tunnel
I changed the orientation of the cushion clamps so that the brake line is
h
eld up off the floor and cleanup is much easier.
I did the same thing on mine, but I'm not 100% committed to it yet. I
migh
t turn them back correctly.
My bigger concern were the brake lines rubbing on the shop-head-side of
the
rivets that are directly below the lines. With the cushion clamps held in
their "correct" position, the brake lines aren't more than 1/32 - 1/16" of
f those shop heads and I didn't want the rivets working my brake lines.
(B
TW - I'm using Bonaco lines all the way through the tunnel.)
I'd like the clamps to be oriented correctly, but I don't like the
possibil
ity of the rivets working on those lines. I've been trying to come up
with
a rub-barrier that I can insert between the rivets and the lines, but I ha
ven't come up with anything yet. So I might end up flipping the clamps
ove
r too, but with flex lines, I'd really need to be careful that they don't
e
ventually rotate down a few degrees pushing the flex lines back down on
the
rivets (again). J
There has to be a barrier we could put in there to keep the lines off the
r
ivet tails.
Phil
From: Albert Gardner [mailto:ibspud(at)roadrunner.com]
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 9:32 AM
Subject: Center Tunnel
After reading about the explosion/fire in the RV-10 possibly due to a fuel
leak in the tunnel I took a look at mine just to check since it has been
aw
hile since the annual inspection. No leaks but I still don't like the
spill
age associated with opening the filter for inspection/cleaning. One thing
I
changed was the routing of the brake lines. Page 36-3 routes the lines alm
ost against the floor making cleanup difficult. I changed the orientation
o
f the cushion clamps so that the brake line is held up off the floor and
cl
eanup is much easier.
Now I'm looking at the idea of accessing the filter through the bottom of
t
he tunnel so that no fuel is spilled inside cleaning the filter. Also,
gett
ing in the tunnel from the top is difficult as the rudder cables must be
di
sconnected, seats removed, and carpet removed to get access to the tunnel
c
over.
I'm thinking of installing a cup holder in the tunnel cover so that I
could
easily inspect the interior by pulling out the cup holder and shinning a f
lashlight in there without removing anything else.
Albert Gardner
N991RV
Yume, AZ
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
________________________________ Message 12
____________________________________
Time: 11:07:10 AM PST US
Subject: Re: Crow Harnesses
From: "n277dl" <dljinia(at)yahoo.com>
Rob,
I called and Mr Crow knew exactly what lengths / type I needed for
the -10.
He had them sent out to me in a couple days. Look nice.
Doug
--------
Doug
"Fools" are always more creative than process people and will
always
find ways to ruin a perfectly good set of processes.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301203#301203
________________________________ Message 13
____________________________________
Time: 11:25:14 AM PST US
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: Halotron fire extinguisher
True to some extent....but you can still get them for
Aviation:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/h3rhalon.php
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
On 6/14/2010 12:33 PM, Lew Gallagher wrote:
>
> Gallagher"<lewgall(at)charter.net>
>
> Hey Guys,
>
> With the discussion about the tunnel fire/explosion, I decided to
> follow up on some of the discussions about tunnel/FF nozzles,
> extinguishers, etc. When I called the guy that does my building's
> fire inspections, he said they haven't made Halon extinguishers since
> the mid nineties, and that they only do Halotron now. No
> flurocarbons, no residue, doesn't destroy electrical, etc. So I
> ordered a 2.5 lb one from him (Buckeye, 70256, $88.00).
>
> Am I late on this? Is this what everyone is installing now? I
> searched briefly and didn't see any reference to it, so I thought I'd
> ask.
>
> By the way, the one follow up report on the fire was very generic,
> and I'd love to hear more from the pilot other than that one quick
> response where he said he thought he may have hit the flap switch,
> and that they're basically OK. Fuel lines, pump -- anything left to
> diagnose what happened?
>
> Later, - Lew
>
> -------- non-pilot crazy about building NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
> Fly off completed !
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=301200#301200
________________________________ Message 14
____________________________________
Time: 12:09:31 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Center Tunnel
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
To follow up: http://www.airward.com or http://tinyurl.com/2eetgbe for
the exact page.
On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 8:21 AM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
wrote:
>
> Side access panel makes it easier. Bob Leffler has a picture of it on his
> site. I'm not finding the web link for ordering the kit right now. Seems
> like Air Ward was the vendor, but paperwork is at the hangar.
________________________________ Message 15
____________________________________
Time: 12:27:42 PM PST US
From: "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Halotron fire extinguisher
Hey Tim,
Good to "see" your voice -- missed you there for awhile. Why would you
want
Halon if it does so much collateral damage and is essentially obsolete?
Later, - Lew
---
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