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Fuel tank

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frank.goodnight(at)att.ne
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 6:09 am Post subject: Fuel tank

Hi All, 

  

 Any one out there had any sucess welding up a fuel tank ( .050 5052h3 alum ) with gas --ox acetlene?.. I am a pretty fair

 welder but have never tryed to gas weld alum. Would it be better to just go to a comercial shop and pay the 100 bucks or so ?

  Any thoughts would be helpful.

  

 Frank 

  



 [img]cid:1282485665259(at)dclient.mail.yahoo.com[/img]

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John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 6:47 am Post subject: Fuel tank

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 6:54 am Post subject: fuel tank

Gang:



This is a resend of the original.



Wonder if Frank G could remove the attachment (character in the lower right 

of his emails) when he sends stuff to the Kolb List.  My server and 

Matronics are having a problem living with that particular attachment.



Thanks,



john h



Frank:



Let a pro do it for you.  There is probably a shop in Brownsville that 

specializes in marine fuel tanks.  It is very difficult to weld up a good 

aluminum tank that will not have pin holes, even with a good welder and a 

TIG outfit.



I also slosh seal my tanks.  If there is a tiny pin hole in there somewhere, 

sloshing will insure that it is sealed.  I tiny pin hole can drive you nuts 

with its constant seep/ooze and the smell of gasoline in the cockpit.



In addition, I slosh seal antique tractor fuel tanks, the last was 74 years 

old.  They will leak at their soldered seams, and nearly always have rusted 

through on the bottom where moisture collects.



Of strict importance is to insure the slosh sealer is compatible with auto 

gas/alcohol and av gas.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:43 am Post subject: Fuel tank

I have attempted gas welding aluminum with unfavorable results.  There are special alloy rods available that have lower meltbut the joint will have poor strength.  Maybe if you had good clean lapped joints you could flow it in somewhat like soldering.

Try some on scrap for an entertaining experience.  The aluminum will rapidly form an oxide skin from which the liquid beneath

will flow out like water.  -leaving a giant hole.   Better go TIG and an experienced welder.

I am lucky and have such a neighbor who did my aluminum intake manifold.

BB

dormant MkIII, suzuki



On 22, Aug 2010, at 10:09 AM, frank goodnight wrote:

[quote]Hi All,

 

Any one out there had any sucess welding up a fuel tank ( .050 5052h3 alum ) with gas --ox acetlene?.. I am a pretty fair

welder but have never tryed to gas weld alum. Would it be better to just go to a comercial shop and pay the 100 bucks or so ?

 Any thoughts would be helpful.

 

Frank

 



<--static--liam_party_bottomright.jpg>



[b]

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:47 am Post subject: Fuel tank

Gas welding aluminum generally goes like this, for me anyway.�Scrub, scrub, scrub with stainless steel wire brush to remove oxide layer.�

Apply flux

Heat with carbonizing flame until surface has a milky look

 Aluminum falls away revealing big hole that was solid just moments ago.�

With luck the molten aluminum did not fall on your foot.

Swear prolifically, even if molten blob misses your foot, scream loudly if it hits the bullseye.

 Repeat until stupid with rage and heave project as far as you can throw it.

Mumble and be grouchy the rest of the day.

Best stay away from the wife and other civilized people until calm.

 The TIG welder is far cheaper in dollars and sanity.

Just MHO.

Rick



On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 9:09 AM, frank goodnight <frank.goodnight(at)att.net (frank.goodnight(at)att.net)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		       Hi All, 

 �

 Any one out there had any sucess welding up a fuel tank ( .050 5052h3 alum ) with gas --ox acetlene?.. I am a pretty fair

 welder but have never tryed to gas weld alum. Would it be better to just go to a comercial shop and pay the 100 bucks or so ?

 �Any thoughts would be helpful.

 �

 Frank 

 �



 [img]cid:1282485665259(at)dclient.mail.yahoo.com[/img] 



	


-- 

Zulu Delta

Kolb Mk IIIC

582 Gray head

4.00 C gearbox

3 blade WD

 Thanks, Homer GBYM

It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.

 � -�G.K. Chesterton

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_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

by0ung(at)brigham.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 9:48 am Post subject: Fuel tank

Frank    i have never seen anyone  weld alum sucessfully with a torch,   usually done with a mig or tig  with a square wave variable power  output.   takes a lot of  practice to melt the alum, without droping out a big hole.   the  aluminum has no tel tel signs that it is about to drop on your foot.  if  you try a torch,,,,   best to find a special alloy rod.    (lower melting point. less stregnth)

  

  

 boyd young

 do not archive

  

  

                                    Hi All, 

        

       Any one out there had any sucess welding up a fuel tank ( .050 5052h3        alum ) with gas --ox acetlene?.. I am a pretty fair

       welder but have never tryed to gas weld alum. Would it be better to        just go to a comercial shop and pay the 100 bucks or so ?

        Any thoughts would be helpful.

        

       Frank 

        



        



   [quote][b]

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:46 am Post subject: Fuel tank

It _is_ possible to gas weld aluminum, but you've got to be _really_ 

good.  There are so-called "aluminum welding rods" which are in fact 

brazing rods (the base metal doesn't melt), but I wouldn't trust them 

for a fuel tank.



I went with a guy who's in the business of making fuel tanks.



-Dana 

-------------------------------------------------

frank goodnight <frank.goodnight(at)att.net> wrote:

(08/22/2010 10:09)



 	  Quote: 	
		   Hi All, 

 

 Any one out there had any sucess welding up a fuel tank ( .050 5052h3 alum ) 

 with gas --ox acetlene?.. I am a pretty fair

 welder but have never tryed to gas weld alum. Would it be better to just go to a 

 comercial shop and pay the 100 bucks or so ?

 �Any thoughts would be helpful.

 

 Frank

frank.goodnight(at)att.ne
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:58 am Post subject: Fuel tank

Thanks to all of you that answeered my request for info. I will go with a pro welder tig , mig or heliarc. thanks

 again.

  

 Frank



 

   From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net>

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Sun, August 22, 2010 1:53:19 PM

Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel tank



--> Kolb-List message posted by: Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net (d-m-hague(at)comcast.net)>



It _is_ possible to gas weld aluminum, but you've got to be _really_ 

good.  There are so-called "aluminum welding rods" which are in fact 

brazing rods (the base metal doesn't melt), but I wouldn't trust them 

for a fuel tank.



I went with a guy who's in the business of making fuel tanks.



-Dana 

-------------------------------------------------

frank goodnight <frank.goodnight(at)att.net (frank.goodnight(at)att.net)> wrote:

(08/22/2010 10:09)



 	  Quote: 	
		   Hi All, 

 

 Any one out there had any sucess welding up a fuel tank ( .050 5052h3 alum ) 

 with gas --ox acetlene?.. I am a pretty fair

 welder but have never tryed to gas weld alum. Would it be better to just go to a 

 comercial shop and pay the 100 bucks or so ?

  Any thoughts would bsp;                 -Matt Dralle, ===========


	




 [quote][b]

aoldman(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 11:58 pm Post subject: Fuel tank

I have welded a fair bit of alum with ox-  acetylene , some as thin as your tank but I would not be keen on welding a  fuel tank this way. You need to clean all the oxidization off the aly before  starting to weld it .I think on a tank you may  have difficulty with blowing holes ,well I know I would . You may also find that  eventually you will get a leak along side your weld . This would depend on  stress /vibration .You do loose strength in the area where the weld bonds with  the base metal . If it was mine I would look at welding the problem area using  argon shield then putting a patch over the weld .

 I may be wrong with this advise as most of the  welding of alum I have done has been boat props and window frames. If you have a  good handle  on the oxy - acetylene why not get a couple of bits of alum  the thickness of your tank and give it a go . I have always had best results by  using a unfluxed rod and used a separate flux. From memory its a liquid air  flux. Polish both the rod and area to be welded with wire wool first and weld as  soon as possible after that . There is a very short time between the base metal  { puddling } being ready to weld and slumping away. I have welded a boat prop on  the side of the lake using a propane torch and some old alum as a fill simply by  polishing { filing } first then not using any flux . Don't know how long it  lasted but the boat it was on disappeared off into the distance.What I am trying  to say is that yes you can weld this material with oxy - acetylene ,you just  need some practice .But a fuel tank ? 

 Please note I am not a welder by trade, I have held  a marine welding certificate for electric welding and completed a gas welding  course many years ago. There will be others on this list who may have better  advise.

  

 Regards

 Downunder 

 MK111c 

    [quote][b]

ceengland(at)bellsouth.ne
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:09 pm Post subject: fuel tank

Another option, if you haven't already cut metal, is to rivet them. 

It's not difficult (it can even be done with 'pop' rivets) & then seal 

the tank with 'pro-seal' type fuel sealant (multiple brands available), 

or slosh the tank with some of John's tractor slosh.



If this option interests you, I can give you some more info on how to do 

it. For me, at least, it's *much* easier than trying to weld aluminum.



Charlie

 	  Quote: 	
		   Frank:



 Let a pro do it for you.  There is probably a shop in Brownsville that

 specializes in marine fuel tanks.  It is very difficult to weld up a good

 aluminum tank that will not have pin holes, even with a good welder and a

 TIG outfit.



 I also slosh seal my tanks.  If there is a tiny pin hole in there somewhere,

 sloshing will insure that it is sealed.  I tiny pin hole can drive you nuts

 with its constant seep/ooze and the smell of gasoline in the cockpit.



 In addition, I slosh seal antique tractor fuel tanks, the last was 74 years

 old.  They will leak at their soldered seams, and nearly always have rusted

 through on the bottom where moisture collects.



 Of strict importance is to insure the slosh sealer is compatible with auto

 gas/alcohol and av gas.



 john h

 mkIII

elleryweld(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:13 pm Post subject: Fuel tank

Do not use wire wool unless it is made of stainless steel or it will  contaminate your area to be welded 

   I have been a welder by trade most of my life the way I would attack that fuel tank is with a welding machine that has High Freq and a tig torch with Argon Shielding gas for a good strong  good looking weld �

 

 

     Ellery Batchelder Jr.

 

 

 

   --

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:43 pm Post subject: fuel tank

Dang, should have been OR welding.



Rick



On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 9:07 PM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com (aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  As long as we're talking alternatives, use composites and slosh the inside. Far easier than riveting of welding. 



Rick Girard

On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 4:09 PM, Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net (ceengland(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:

   	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net (ceengland(at)bellsouth.net)>

   

 �Another option, if you haven't already cut metal, is to rivet them. It's not difficult (it can even be done with 'pop' rivets) & then seal the tank with 'pro-seal' type fuel sealant (multiple brands available), or slosh the tank with some of John's tractor slosh.

   

 If this option interests you, I can give you some more info on how to do it. For me, at least, it's *much* easier than trying to weld aluminum.

 

 Charlie

  	  Quote: 	
		   Frank:

 

 Let a pro do it for you. �There is probably a shop in Brownsville that

 specializes in marine fuel tanks. �It is very difficult to weld up a good

 aluminum tank that will not have pin holes, even with a good welder and a

 TIG outfit.

 

 I also slosh seal my tanks. �If there is a tiny pin hole in there somewhere,

 sloshing will insure that it is sealed. �I tiny pin hole can drive you nuts

 with its constant seep/ooze and the smell of gasoline in the cockpit.

 

 In addition, I slosh seal antique tractor fuel tanks, the last was 74 years

 old. �They will leak at their soldered seams, and nearly always have rusted

 through on the bottom where moisture collects.

 

 Of strict importance is to insure the slosh sealer is compatible with auto

 gas/alcohol and av gas.

 

 john h

 mkIII

 	
 

 

 ===========

 arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 	






-- 

Zulu Delta

Kolb Mk IIIC

582 Gray head

4.00 C gearbox

3 blade WD

Thanks, Homer GBYM

 It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.

 �-�G.K. Chesterton



 

 	


-- 

Zulu Delta

Kolb Mk IIIC

582 Gray head

4.00 C gearbox

3 blade WD

Thanks, Homer GBYM

It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.

 �-�G.K. Chesterton



 

  [quote][b]

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:43 pm Post subject: fuel tank

As long as we're talking alternatives, use composites and slosh the inside. Far easier than riveting of welding.



Rick Girard



On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 4:09 PM, Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net (ceengland(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net (ceengland(at)bellsouth.net)>

  

 �Another option, if you haven't already cut metal, is to rivet them. It's not difficult (it can even be done with 'pop' rivets) & then seal the tank with 'pro-seal' type fuel sealant (multiple brands available), or slosh the tank with some of John's tractor slosh.

  

 If this option interests you, I can give you some more info on how to do it. For me, at least, it's *much* easier than trying to weld aluminum.

 

 Charlie

  	  Quote: 	
		   Frank:

 

 Let a pro do it for you. �There is probably a shop in Brownsville that

 specializes in marine fuel tanks. �It is very difficult to weld up a good

 aluminum tank that will not have pin holes, even with a good welder and a

 TIG outfit.

 

 I also slosh seal my tanks. �If there is a tiny pin hole in there somewhere,

 sloshing will insure that it is sealed. �I tiny pin hole can drive you nuts

 with its constant seep/ooze and the smell of gasoline in the cockpit.

 

 In addition, I slosh seal antique tractor fuel tanks, the last was 74 years

 old. �They will leak at their soldered seams, and nearly always have rusted

 through on the bottom where moisture collects.

 

 Of strict importance is to insure the slosh sealer is compatible with auto

 gas/alcohol and av gas.

 

 john h

 mkIII

 	
 

 

 ===========

 arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 	


-- 

Zulu Delta

Kolb Mk IIIC

582 Gray head

4.00 C gearbox

3 blade WD

Thanks, Homer GBYM

It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.

 �-�G.K. Chesterton



 

  [quote][b]

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

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