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rleffler
Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 680
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 Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 4:47 pm Post subject: Fuel Injection |
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I’m getting ready to order an engine……..
I am looking for opinions pro/con for Precision Airmotive (Bendix) versus AirFlow Performance.
<![if !supportLists]>· <![endif]>Don at Airflow seems to be very active in the experimental community and provides great support.
<![if !supportLists]>· <![endif]>AFP requires a purge valve whereas the Precision doesn’t.
<![if !supportLists]>· <![endif]>Precision seems to be the default injectors on the OEM from Van’s, Aerosport, and a couple others.
I just exhausted my knowledge on the subject.
[quote][b]
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Bob Leffler
N410BL - Phase I
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ricksked(at)cox.net
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| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:37 pm Post subject: Fuel Injection |
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Bob,
The purge valve is an option but I like mine for removing the
Fuel from the distribution block at shut down as well as pumping cool fuel during hot starts. Maybe I was lucky but as built by Barrets all my injectors are right on and I have had to do nothing to operate LOP with all the temps very close to each other.
Rick S.
N246RS
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 24, 2010, at 5:44 PM, "Bob Leffler" <rv(at)thelefflers.com (rv(at)thelefflers.com)> wrote:
[quote]
I’m getting ready to order an engine……..
I am looking for opinions pro/con for Precision Airmotive (Bendix) versus AirFlow Performance.
· Don at Airflow seems to be very active in the experimental community and provides great support.
· AFP requires a purge valve whereas the Precision doesn’t.
· Precision seems to be the default injectors on the OEM from Van’s, Aerosport, and a couple others.
I just exhausted my knowledge on the subject.
| Quote: |
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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[b]
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carl.froehlich(at)verizon
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| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 6:01 pm Post subject: Fuel Injection |
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If given the option, I’d lean toward the AirFlow Performance system.
I have that on my 8A and can vouch for it. I run LOP 95% of the time in cruise and all cylinder EGTs are within 20 degrees (delta between each EGT temperature and that cylinder’s temperature at peak EGT). I got the Precision on my Van’s IO-540 only because of the great price I got during a Van’s engine sale a couple of years ago. If it ever needs replacing I’ll back fit with the AirFlow Performance system.
I too like the purge valve for engine shutdown as it limits the fuel dripping back down into the filter box.
Carl
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 9:32 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Fuel Injection
Bob,
The purge valve is an option but I like mine for removing the
Fuel from the distribution block at shut down as well as pumping cool fuel during hot starts. Maybe I was lucky but as built by Barrets all my injectors are right on and I have had to do nothing to operate LOP with all the temps very close to each other.
Rick S.
N246RS
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 24, 2010, at 5:44 PM, "Bob Leffler" <rv(at)thelefflers.com (rv(at)thelefflers.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
I’m getting ready to order an engine……..
I am looking for opinions pro/con for Precision Airmotive (Bendix) versus AirFlow Performance.
· Don at Airflow seems to be very active in the experimental community and provides great support.
· AFP requires a purge valve whereas the Precision doesn’t.
· Precision seems to be the default injectors on the OEM from Van’s, Aerosport, and a couple others.
I just exhausted my knowledge on the subject.
| Quote: | | href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
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[quote][b]
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Kelly McMullen
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 6:41 pm Post subject: Fuel Injection |
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Well, I've been operating a Mooney for about 800 hours over the past
dozen years with a Precision RSA fuel injection system on an IO-360A1A
engine. After the first few months of learning how to hot start it
without effort, it hasn't given me a lick of trouble. I had the system
overhauled at the same time I did the rest of the engine 8 years ago.
It has always allowed me to run up to 70 LOP without more than a hint
of roughness, runs with EGT and CHT all within 30 of each other when
about 10 LOP to peak at appropriate power settings. On the other hand,
AirFlow lets you do more fine tuning on your own, if that is your bag.
Precision needs to be properly set up on a flow bench, but if done
right will be good for pretty close to TBO with no more than cleaning
the inlet screen every couple hundred hours and cleaning the injectors
on about the same schedule.
Purge valve to me is just one more thing to deal with, check that it
isn't in the wrong position, etc.
You probably won't go wrong with either system.
Kelly
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 5:44 PM, Bob Leffler <rv(at)thelefflers.com> wrote:
| Quote: | I’m getting ready to order an engine……..
I am looking for opinions pro/con for Precision Airmotive (Bendix) versus
AirFlow Performance.
· Don at Airflow seems to be very active in the experimental
community and provides great support.
· AFP requires a purge valve whereas the Precision doesn’t.
· Precision seems to be the default injectors on the OEM from Van’s,
Aerosport, and a couple others.
I just exhausted my knowledge on the subject.
|
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
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martinaerodrome(at)gmail.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:52 am Post subject: Fuel Injection |
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I have a precision system on my 10 year old 2000 hour RV8.
I wish I had the Air Flow because of the purge valve feature. It makes hot starts a non event.
Dick Martin
RV8 N233M
the fast one
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 7:44 PM, Bob Leffler <rv(at)thelefflers.com (rv(at)thelefflers.com)> wrote:
[quote]
I’m getting ready to order an engine……..
I am looking for opinions pro/con for Precision Airmotive (Bendix) versus AirFlow Performance.
· Don at Airflow seems to be very active in the experimental community and provides great support.
· AFP requires a purge valve whereas the Precision doesn’t.
· Precision seems to be the default injectors on the OEM from Van’s, Aerosport, and a couple others.
I just exhausted my knowledge on the subject.
| Quote: |
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
[b]
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2881
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:36 am Post subject: Fuel Injection |
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Hot starts are a non-event on my Precision system on the RV-10.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
On 8/25/2010 11:50 AM, Richard Martin wrote:
| Quote: | I have a precision system on my 10 year old 2000 hour RV8.
I wish I had the Air Flow because of the purge valve feature. It makes
hot starts a non event.
Dick Martin
RV8 N233M
the fast one
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 7:44 PM, Bob Leffler <rv(at)thelefflers.com
<mailto:rv(at)thelefflers.com>> wrote:
I’m getting ready to order an engine……..
I am looking for opinions pro/con for Precision Airmotive (Bendix)
versus AirFlow Performance.
· Don at Airflow seems to be very active in the experimental
community and provides great support.
· AFP requires a purge valve whereas the Precision doesn’t.
· Precision seems to be the default injectors on the OEM from Van’s,
Aerosport, and a couple others.
I just exhausted my knowledge on the subject.
*
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
*
*
*
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robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:24 am Post subject: Fuel Injection |
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Tim,
I seem to remember your observation that you believed flying LOP
was easier with the Precision unit vs. the AFP unit. Am I remembering
correctly and if so do you still feel that way?
BTW using the purge valve has really improved my hot starts. Not
using the PV in shutdown has excess fuel pouring out the waffle valve and
loading up the fuel servo.
Robin
Do Not Archive
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2881
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:01 am Post subject: Fuel Injection |
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Well, that was just a thought initially...I think now we've
seen enough evidence that the james cowl just has some
pressure differences and that the ram air for the outside
of the injectors is the fix if you use a james cowl. I think
both systems would probably be just fine.
Personally, I would prefer to have one less thing to deal
with in having the purge valve, from a construction
and an operational perspective. I've put 650 hours
on my plane, and done tons and tons of hot starts. I've
found that hot starts aren't really an issue at all with
the Precision fuel injection. It just requires lean to
cut-off when you crank it, with some throttle added.
I really just never ever have a problem with that.
If you do have a purge valve, as in your case, then yeah, use
it as recommended and you should have just fine luck too.
I think they're both fine systems. I just don't think
that the purge valve adds any real value over the precision,
as a selling point...and in some people's eyes it
detracts value. Why have something you don't need is
all.
The question I have is that a couple people have commented in this
recent week about differences in injectors. I don't know if
there IS any difference between precision and AFP injectors
themselves. What I do know is that you buy your sized nossles
for your precision injectors from AFP, and that the injector itself
is just a "dumb" block of brass with a hole in it and a vent on the
side with a screen. So, in theory, there shouldn't be really any
significant difference in the injectors. I wouldn't be surprised
if people are just mistaken (or maybe I am) and they're basically
just the same thing. Now on the fuel servo end I'm sure there
are differences. Again though, I just don't see that there is
any big difference one way or the other from an operational
perspective.
We do get people putting in comments about how they like one
system over the other from their RV-4,6,7,9 experiences they've
had, but being totally different airframes and engines,
I think it's safer to look at the existing pool of over 300
RV-10's for information....and from everything I've heard
on the RV-10's, people are pretty much universally satisfied
with either system, as long as they learn how to properly
use it. People like to get all pumped up and defend their
own choice of whatever they bought, so you'll get arguments
from both sides....but in this case, I don't really think
there is one choice that you should feel much better about
than the other. They both will work fine. And, I doubt that
you'll have hot start issues with either system if you do
the proper hot start procedure. The caveat is that if you
go Precision, you have one less purge valve to deal with...and
it's probably as simple as that. Nothing to knock on AFP,
as I said, I'm sure it's great too, and hey, maybe some people
like Rick commented, really like their purge valves.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
On 8/25/2010 1:22 PM, Robin Marks wrote:
[quote]
Tim,
I seem to remember your observation that you believed flying LOP
was easier with the Precision unit vs. the AFP unit. Am I remembering
correctly and if so do you still feel that way?
BTW using the purge valve has really improved my hot starts. Not
using the PV in shutdown has excess fuel pouring out the waffle valve and
loading up the fuel servo.
Robin
Do Not Archive
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