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BobsV35B(at)aol.com
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 Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 6:46 am Post subject: Using a 396 for IFR, was: Converting IFR GPS to Terminal |
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Good Morning Greg,
Just to be clear, let's not forget to mention that the 396 is NOT approved
for any IFR function and especially not for approaches.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 5/4/2006 9:35:00 A.M. Central Standard Time,
gyoung(at)cs-sol.com writes:
Or get a Garmin 396 for the approaches.
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gyoung
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 211
Location: Republic of Texas
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| Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 9:49 am Post subject: Using a 396 for IFR, was: Converting IFR GPS to Terminal |
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Nor would his modified GX-65 be approved for anything (even VFR) after
the mod. That's his choice. For me, I fly with an approach certified
GX-60 and SL-30 in my Navion and will have the same in my RV-6. But the
396 is a damn fine backup.
Regards,
Greg
| Quote: |
Good Morning Greg,
Just to be clear, let's not forget to mention that the 396 is
NOT approved for any IFR function and especially not for approaches.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
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BobsV35B(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 12:43 pm Post subject: Using a 396 for IFR, was: Converting IFR GPS to Terminal |
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Good Afternoon Greg,
Not to belabor the point, but, if he has the set modified and/or upgraded by
Garmin, I think it is reasonable that it would be approvable for approach
purposes.
As the set is right now, before any change or modification, it is approvable
to be used for the vast majority of operations conducted by most IFR pilots.
It can be used for all enroute and terminal purposes including as a
substitute for the ADF and DME on any approach that requires those items.
My comments were meant to encourage the use of the set 'as is' for legal,
not emergency purposes. In an emergency, anything that is helpful could and
should be used.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 5/4/2006 12:52:08 P.M. Central Standard Time,
gyoung(at)cs-sol.com writes:
Nor would his modified GX-65 be approved for anything (even VFR) after
the mod. That's his choice. For me, I fly with an approach certified
GX-60 and SL-30 in my Navion and will have the same in my RV-6. But the
396 is a damn fine backup.
Regards,
Greg
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rtitsworth
Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 76
Location: Detroit, Mi
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| Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 2:07 pm Post subject: Using a 396 for IFR, was: Converting IFR GPS to Terminal |
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FYI...
Someone may want to further investigate/verify this but I believe the
following comment (from below) is not 100% legally correct.
"It [GPS] can be used for all enroute and terminal purposes including as a
substitute for the ADF and DME on any approach that requires those items."
I believe the correct comment is:
The GPS can be used for the ADF and/or DME on "most" (not "any") approach
that requires those.
The nuance is where/why the NDB and/or DME is required for the approach....
If the requirement is in the title (name) of the approach, then the NDB
and/or DME facility is necessary for the final leg (FAF -> Runway) and
CANNOT be substituted with the GPS unless GPS is also in the title (it
frequently is for many NDB approaches, but not "all").
That is why/how approaches are named and why some are titled "NDB or GPS"
and others are titled "NDB". Why would there be a difference if GPS could
be substituted for any [all] NDB's. For reference look up the [Anderson]
AID NDB or GPS rwy 30 approach and compare it to the [Angola] ANQ NDB rwy5
approach.
http://download.aopa.org/iap/20060413/EC-2/aid_ndb_or_gps_rwy_30.pdf
http://download.aopa.org/iap/20060413/EC-2/anq_ndb_rwy_05.pdf
If you page though an approach plate book you'll find similar examples.
However, if the required NDB and/or DME facility is for another part of the
approach, such as the missed procedure or an approach with a single IAF,
then it will appear on the plan view as text such as "DME Required". The
GPS CAN be used as a substitute for these (i.e. the DME is not required - a
bit counter-intuitive)
For example reference the [Akron] AKR LOC rwy25 approach (where the NDB is
the only IAF):
http://download.aopa.org/iap/20060413/EC-2/akr_loc_rwy_25.pdf
If the NDB and/or DME is used for another aspect of the approach or an
optional IAF or alternate DME minimum then it will not be noted as required
and the GPS CAN also be substituted.
The GPS can also be substituted for IFR enroute fixes (assuming the aircraft
is also equipped with "ground based navigational instruments appropriate to
the flight"). I understand that to mean that you must have some appropriate
ground based equipment on board and functional (i.e. a VOR).
I'm not the expert, so someone may want to verify (or correct me) on this.
The whole topic can be pretty confusing. I'll do some digging myself for
appropriate AC, FAR, and/or AIM references.
Rick Titsworth
C172 w/Bendix King KN94 IFR Cert GPS (enroute and approach)
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aadamson(at)highrf.com
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| Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 3:59 pm Post subject: Using a 396 for IFR, was: Converting IFR GPS to Terminal |
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Rick...
I *think*, and can't find the info right now.... But...
When the FAA first issued the directive of GPS use in place of DME, NDB, it
was as you stated. However it was later refined to remove those
exclusions... (with the standard exceptions of alternates and no use of GPS
approach if the *only* approach)
I'd have to go dig and it isn't really of interest, but either on the EAA or
the AOPA site, the last refinement was posted.
YMMV and I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn last night,
Don't matter for me anyway, the Dual Chelton will pass TSO-146a (FMS spec
for WAAS), and with the freeflight GPS, it will also satisfy TSO-145a (WAAS
GPS spec). Only internal displayed GPS in my panel will be a 396 in a
GizmoDoc for backup  ...
Alan
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