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ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.
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 Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 4:48 pm Post subject: Brake lines and Flared Fittings |
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G'day all,
Finished plumbing the brake lines in the fuse last night. I have no prior experience with flared fittings, and although all the flares look fine to me (nicely burnished, no cracks, symmetrical) I have no idea how well these connections perform.
Can any one with experience in these connections provide any feedback on how well these fittings seal? Specifically, do they leak, and if so, how are they fixed if they do?
Is there a way of leak testing the brake system before the fuel plumbing and upper forward fuse is installed? Is finding/fixing a leak after everything is installed a problem? I'd hate to have to remove and reinstall the lines to fix a problem.
Thanks in advance,
Ron
187 fuse
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jesse(at)itecusa.org
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| Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 5:08 pm Post subject: Brake lines and Flared Fittings |
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I can’t help much, but you could try hooking up a pressure guage on one end and a tire valve on the other end and pressurize it to whatever the brake lines are going to need to hold and see how well it holds the pressure. This is similar to the testing of the fuel tanks, but using much higher pressure than the balloon will hold.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org (jesse(at)itecusa.org)
www.itecusa.org
352-465-4545
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGANN, Ron
Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 7:47 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Brake lines and Flared Fittings
G'day all,
Finished plumbing the brake lines in the fuse last night. I have no prior experience with flared fittings, and although all the flares look fine to me (nicely burnished, no cracks, symmetrical) I have no idea how well these connections perform.
Can any one with experience in these connections provide any feedback on how well these fittings seal? Specifically, do they leak, and if so, how are they fixed if they do?
Is there a way of leak testing the brake system before the fuel plumbing and upper forward fuse is installed? Is finding/fixing a leak after everything is installed a problem? I'd hate to have to remove and reinstall the lines to fix a problem.
Thanks in advance,
Ron
187 fuse
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flysrv10(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 5:52 pm Post subject: Brake lines and Flared Fittings |
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They should look polished and shiney and connect squarely to the
fitting. Try soapy water at the jopint with a little bit of
compressed air.
Do not archive.
On 5/4/06, Jesse Saint <jesse(at)itecusa.org> wrote:
| Quote: |
I can't help much, but you could try hooking up a pressure guage on one end
and a tire valve on the other end and pressurize it to whatever the brake
lines are going to need to hold and see how well it holds the pressure.
This is similar to the testing of the fuel tanks, but using much higher
pressure than the balloon will hold.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
352-465-4545
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
McGANN, Ron
Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 7:47 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Brake lines and Flared Fittings
G'day all,
Finished plumbing the brake lines in the fuse last night. I have no prior
experience with flared fittings, and although all the flares look fine to me
(nicely burnished, no cracks, symmetrical) I have no idea how well these
connections perform.
Can any one with experience in these connections provide any feedback on how
well these fittings seal? Specifically, do they leak, and if so, how are
they fixed if they do?
Is there a way of leak testing the brake system before the fuel plumbing and
upper forward fuse is installed? Is finding/fixing a leak after everything
is installed a problem? I'd hate to have to remove and reinstall the lines
to fix a problem.
Thanks in advance,
Ron
187 fuse
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dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 6:40 pm Post subject: Brake lines and Flared Fittings |
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buy some caps for the lines at the fuselage. install the complete brake cylinders and lines and firewall tank. Then get a squirting oil can and put 5606 in it connect a flexible tube to the fuselage fittings after removing the caps. squirt the 5606 into each brake line and you will begin to see it move up in the system into the clear nylon tubes and into the tank. once it is near full (bubbles gone) you can them cap each line and press on the brake pedals. braking will make any leaks readily apparent. Also you can install each fitting with fuel lube on the threads of the AN fittings. Questions give me a call at 480-832-5295.
[quote] ---
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ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.
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| Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 6:56 pm Post subject: Brake lines and Flared Fittings |
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Thanks David - that's just the solution I was looking for. I had read somewhere that fuel lube was not a good idea on flared fittings - only tapered pipe fittings. Is this acceptable practice?
thanks again,
Ron
[quote] --
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dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 7:10 pm Post subject: Brake lines and Flared Fittings |
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we are not putting fuel lube on the flare but on the threads where the B nut goes. One other thing I assume you are using the proper aviation flaring tool providing 100? degree flares. I had one leak that was fixed by tightening one B nut.
[quote] ---
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jhstarn(at)verizon.net
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| Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 8:19 pm Post subject: Brake lines and Flared Fittings |
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Don't mean to jump in BUT the aviation flare is 37 degrees. Automotive is 45 degree. The 45 degree looks like it fits BUT it's the wrong angle. You can force it to fit & stop leaking BUT the nut edge will cut into the back of the flare when the flare is deformed causing a crack starting groove. Not sure that the 100 degree would be. If you have a proper flare the end should "just" fit inside the nut. Always put any thread "dope" (fuel lube etc) very sparingly in the "male" threads ONLY.
KABONG N561FS HRII
EAA Tech Advisor. Plumbing & A/C Contractor 30 years.
Do Not Archive, all of this in there.
[quote] ---
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Tim(at)MyRV10.com
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| Posted: Fri May 05, 2006 2:34 am Post subject: Brake lines and Flared Fittings |
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I think he just confused the tubing flare with the flat-head
screw countersink number.... Aviation fittings are 37 degree
flare. Aviation Screws are 100 degree countersink. I think
regular screws are 82 degrees or something like that. Many
automotive fittings are 45 degrees.
That said, when looking for fittings you may have better luck
trying Aeroquip's performance automotive line...hot rodders
apparently years ago learned that our aviation fittings were
cool, so there's a much better selection of fittings available
in the performance automotive market, and usually at lower
cost. Try: http://www.summitracing.com/ for instance.
I've heard they also have firewall passthroughs,but don't know
first hand.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
JOHN STARN wrote:
[quote] Don't mean to jump in BUT the aviation flare is 37 degrees. Automotive
is 45 degree. The 45 degree looks like it fits BUT it's the wrong angle.
You can force it to fit & stop leaking BUT the nut edge will cut into
the back of the flare when the flare is deformed causing a crack
starting groove. Not sure that the 100 degree would be. If you have a
proper flare the end should "just" fit inside the nut. Always put any
thread "dope" (fuel lube etc) very sparingly in the "male" threads ONLY.
KABONG N561FS HRII
EAA Tech Advisor. Plumbing & A/C Contractor 30 years.
Do Not Archive, all of this in there.
---
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pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 05, 2006 7:00 am Post subject: Brake lines and Flared Fittings |
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IMHO, of course!!!
McGANN, Ron wrote:
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mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto } DIV.fieldvalue9 { FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0in; COLOR: #333333; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto } SPAN.EmailStyle55 { COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-style-type: personal } P.title12 { FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; BACKGROUND: #e9eaeb; MARGIN-LEFT: 0in; COLOR: #666666; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto } LI.title12 { FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; BACKGROUND: #e9eaeb; MARGIN-LEFT: 0in; COLOR: #666666; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto } DIV.title12 { FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; BACKGROUND: #e9eaeb; MARGIN-LEFT: 0in; COLOR: #666666; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto } P.fieldlabel11 { FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0in; COLOR: #666666; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto } LI.fieldlabel11 { FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0in; COLOR: #666666; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto } DIV.fieldlabel11 { FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0in; COLOR: #666666; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto } P.fieldvalue10 { FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0in; COLOR: #333333; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto } LI.fieldvalue10 { FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0in; COLOR: #333333; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto } DIV.fieldvalue10 { FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0in; COLOR: #333333; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto } SPAN.EmailStyle59 { COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-style-type: personal } SPAN.EmailStyle60 { COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-style-type: personal-reply } DIV.Section1 { page: Section1 } G'day all,
Finished plumbing the brake lines in the fuse last night. I have no prior experience with flared fittings, and although all the flares look fine to me (nicely burnished, no cracks, symmetrical) I have no idea how well these connections perform.
Can any one with experience in these connections provide any feedback on how well these fittings seal?
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Very well. You really have to work at it to make a flare that leaks along with your description.
| Quote: | Specifically, do they leak,
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Not usually.
| Quote: | and if so, how are they fixed if they do?
|
You can 'reflare' the tubing ..... just give it another go with the original flare. | Quote: | Is there a way of leak testing the brake system before the fuel plumbing and upper forward fuse is installed?
|
The brake system is a system by itself. If you have all the pieces installed and the system filled with fluid, you can put a high pressure gauge on the end of the tubing going to the brake (wherever that may be since the wings probably aren't attached) and press on the pedals.
| Quote: | Is finding/fixing a leak after everything is installed a problem?
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Well, depends on where they are. I've seen leaks in the cabin that go unnoticed for a long time ..... until the owner wonders why he's always filling the reservoir. The fluid is red in color (if you use aviation brake fluid) but will 'bleach' out and get really sticky as it dries.
| Quote: | I'd hate to have to remove and reinstall the lines to fix a problem.
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Absolutely. The fittings needed are relatively inexpensive to test part of the system, and you can plug the end of the line until it's time to install the rest of the line to the brakes.
Linn
do not archive
| Quote: |
Thanks in advance,
Ron
187 fuse
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