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M-14pf oil pressure

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CsprJM(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:12 am Post subject: M-14pf oil pressure

I am new to this list but many who are on it know of my recurring  problem.  Nobody can figure it out.  From time to time I get no oil  pressure on start.  It appears that the oil pump is cavitated.  If I  pour a quart of oil down the tube on the top of the engine and try the start I  get oil pressure after about 15 seconds.  No problems after that until the  ugly problem reoccurs.  I have pulled and inspected the oil pump twice and  it is in good shape.  The cockpit gages are o.k.  I have replaced all  oil lines under suction.  The oil tank has been pulled and inspected.   Does anybody out there have any ideas?  John  Casper

  [quote][b]

radiopicture

Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 263

Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:35 am Post subject: M-14pf oil pressure

Check for hose flappers (a piece of rubber that peeled off and got in the way when the fitting was installed). I had a similar problem with my fuel system with confusing symptoms... tried everything else... turned out to be that. Obviously many other possibilities, though. Which type of airplane?



On Jan 15, 2011, at 10:09 AM, CsprJM(at)aol.com (CsprJM(at)aol.com) wrote:

[quote]  I am new to this list but many who are on it know of my recurring  problem.  Nobody can figure it out.  From time to time I get no oil  pressure on start.  It appears that the oil pump is cavitated.  If I  pour a quart of oil down the tube on the top of the engine and try the start I  get oil pressure after about 15 seconds.  No problems after that until the  ugly problem reoccurs.  I have pulled and inspected the oil pump twice and  it is in good shape.  The cockpit gages are o.k.  I have replaced all  oil lines under suction.  The oil tank has been pulled and inspected.   Does anybody out there have any ideas?  John  Casper

   	  Quote: 	
		  

	


[b]

richard.goode(at)russiana
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:36 am Post subject: M-14pf oil pressure

No oil pressure on start does mean that you will ruin your engine before  long!!

 Have you checked that oil is getting to your pump in the first place?Simply  undo the hose to the pump.

 Is the rotating mechanism in the tank free and falling to the lowest  part?

 Is there some obstruction in the tank? We once found 9 oil container tops  there,with similar results.

 Are the hoses to the pump clear?

 Ir the oil "pocket" clear?

 Ir the entry valve to the pump stuck/[I've nevr heard of this but it is a  possiblity].

 Richard Goode Aerobatics 

Rhodds Farm 

Lyonshall 

Hereford 

HR5  3LW 

United Kingdom 

  

 Tel:   +44 (0) 1544 340120 

Fax:  +44 (0) 1544 340129  

www.russianaeros.com

I’m  currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is +94 779  132 160.

  

  

 [quote]   ---

CsprJM(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:54 am Post subject: M-14pf oil pressure

yak52tw

  [quote][b]

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:56 am Post subject: M-14pf oil pressure

What is your OAT at the time you are starting your engine and this occurs. I have this a couple of times when the temp was near freezing.

Doc



Sent from my iPad



On Jan 15, 2011, at 9:09 AM, CsprJM(at)aol.com (CsprJM(at)aol.com) wrote:



[quote]  I am new to this list but many who are on it know of my recurring  problem.  Nobody can figure it out.  From time to time I get no oil  pressure on start.  It appears that the oil pump is cavitated.  If I  pour a quart of oil down the tube on the top of the engine and try the start I  get oil pressure after about 15 seconds.  No problems after that until the  ugly problem reoccurs.  I have pulled and inspected the oil pump twice and  it is in good shape.  The cockpit gages are o.k.  I have replaced all  oil lines under suction.  The oil tank has been pulled and inspected.   Does anybody out there have any ideas?  John  Casper

   	  Quote: 	
		  

	


[b]

radiopicture

Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 263

Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:05 am Post subject: M-14pf oil pressure

This seems like either an obstruction, or possibly air is being sucked into the oil system. 



Wait a couple of hours... many guys on here who have been through all of this before.



On Jan 15, 2011, at 10:51 AM, CsprJM(at)aol.com (CsprJM(at)aol.com) wrote:

[quote]  yak52tw

   	  Quote: 	
		  

	


[b]

radiopicture

Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 263

Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:06 am Post subject: M-14pf oil pressure

Right, Doc. And which oil?



Speaking of which, starting the engine when below 41 degrees F is not recommended.

On Jan 15, 2011, at 10:53 AM, Roger Kemp M.D. wrote:

[quote]What is your OAT at the time you are starting your engine and this occurs. I have this a couple of times when the temp was near freezing.

Doc



Sent from my iPad



On Jan 15, 2011, at 9:09 AM, CsprJM(at)aol.com (CsprJM(at)aol.com) wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		    I am new to this list but many who are on it know of my recurring  problem.  Nobody can figure it out.  From time to time I get no oil  pressure on start.  It appears that the oil pump is cavitated.  If I  pour a quart of oil down the tube on the top of the engine and try the start I  get oil pressure after about 15 seconds.  No problems after that until the  ugly problem reoccurs.  I have pulled and inspected the oil pump twice and  it is in good shape.  The cockpit gages are o.k.  I have replaced all  oil lines under suction.  The oil tank has been pulled and inspected.   Does anybody out there have any ideas?  John  Casper

   	  Quote: 	
		  

	




	


[b]

kregg(at)balancemyprop.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:50 am Post subject: M-14pf oil pressure

Have you checked to see if your coarse oil screen is installed correctly?



Sent from my Samsung Epicâ„¢ 4G



"Richard.Goode" <richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com> wrote:



[quote]No oil pressure on start does mean that you will ruin your engine before long!!

Have you checked that oil is getting to your pump in the first place?Simply undo the hose to the pump.

Is the rotating mechanism in the tank free and falling to the lowest part?

Is there some obstruction in the tank? We once found 9 oil container tops there,with similar results.

Are the hoses to the pump clear?

Ir the oil "pocket" clear?

Ir the entry valve to the pump stuck/[I've nevr heard of this but it is a possiblity].

Richard Goode Aerobatics 

Rhodds Farm 

Lyonshall 

Hereford 

HR5 3LW 

United Kingdom 



Tel:   +44 (0) 1544 340120 

Fax:  +44 (0) 1544 340129 

www.russianaeros.com

I'm currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is +94 779 132 160.

  ---

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:44 am Post subject: M-14pf oil pressure

Without pre warming the engine and oil tank correct? I saw my incident with temp at 44. Shut down immediately and let plane sit in mid day sun for awhile. Then started her without incident.

If this current trend continues down her in the south may have to install pre heater pads.

Doc



Sent from my iPad



On Jan 15, 2011, at 10:04 AM, Eric Wobschall <eric(at)buffaloskyline.com (eric(at)buffaloskyline.com)> wrote:



[quote]Right, Doc. And which oil?



Speaking of which, starting the engine when below 41 degrees F is not recommended.

On Jan 15, 2011, at 10:53 AM, Roger Kemp M.D. wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  What is your OAT at the time you are starting your engine and this occurs. I have this a couple of times when the temp was near freezing.

Doc



Sent from my iPad



On Jan 15, 2011, at 9:09 AM, [url=mailto:CsprJM(at)aol.com]CsprJM(at)aol.com (CsprJM(at)aol.com)[/url] wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		    I am new to this list but many who are on it know of my recurring  problem.  Nobody can figure it out.  From time to time I get no oil  pressure on start.  It appears that the oil pump is cavitated.  If I  pour a quart of oil down the tube on the top of the engine and try the start I  get oil pressure after about 15 seconds.  No problems after that until the  ugly problem reoccurs.  I have pulled and inspected the oil pump twice and  it is in good shape.  The cockpit gages are o.k.  I have replaced all  oil lines under suction.  The oil tank has been pulled and inspected.   Does anybody out there have any ideas?  John  Casper

   	  Quote: 	
		  

	




	






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[b]

CsprJM(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:50 am Post subject: M-14pf oil pressure

Thanks for all the replies on my oil pressure problem.  To clear up  some things the oil tank and the sump have heater pads on them.  The oil  tank was pulled when this occurred at Oshkosh by Cliff Coy and it was in perfect  condition with no trash in the tank.  All the lines from the oil tank  to the pump have been replaced.  Of interest I flew the plan yesterday and  all was perfect.  Two weeks ago I had no oil press. on start..  Still  a big mystery of why this intermittant problem occurs.  Thanks again.   John Casper

  [quote][b]

keithmckinley

Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 434

Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:38 am Post subject: Re: M-14pf oil pressure

you say the "gauges" check OK. Does this mean that you have had a back seater confirming what you are seeing regarding no pressure? Just curious.

csprjm(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:24 am Post subject: M-14pf oil pressure

Yes. Back seaters have confirmed. John

---

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 10:35 am Post subject: M-14pf oil pressure

John,

You and I have chatted about this and you've done everything possible 

except what Keith suggested yesterday, which is a potential problem with 

the main oil screen seating in the canister.  There is a shut off valve 

inside the container which is opened by the screen itself.  One thing 

you could do is fabricate a bypass hose from the oil tank directly to 

the intake of the oil pump.  That would eliminate the possibility of the 

oil screen canister as the culprit.



As far as I can tell, you've covered everything else.

Dennis



A. Dennis Savarese

334-285-6263

334-546-8182 (cell)

Skype: Yakguy1

www.yak-52.com



On 1/16/2011 9:46 AM, CsprJM(at)aol.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Thanks for all the replies on my oil pressure problem. To clear up some

 things the oil tank and the sump have heater pads on them. The oil tank

 was pulled when this occurred at Oshkosh by Cliff Coy and it was in

 perfect condition with no trash in the tank. All the lines from the oil

 tank to the pump have been replaced. Of interest I flew the plan

 yesterday and all was perfect. Two weeks ago I had no oil press. on

 start.. Still a big mystery of why this intermittant problem occurs.

 Thanks again. John Casper



 *

 *

yakplt(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:53 pm Post subject: M-14pf oil pressure

Well, I might as well throw in my 2 cents. 

  

 With a problem like this, the very first thing to do is to determine whether it is an indication problem, or a real problem with actual oil pressure. In my mind, reading all the suggestions and the replies, I have to say that this has yet to be accomplished. 

  

 I am not sure if the aircraft in question uses one oil pressure transmitter or two. Yes, I know it uses two gages, but does it also have two transmitters? And what about the voltage source? The bottom line is that in my humble opinion, the assumption has been made that there really is low oil pressure. Pouring oil down the engine and then seeing oil pressure in "x" amount of seconds could be pure coincidence. 

  

 There is only one 100% reliable way to answer this question and that is to use a slave gage. You locate an actual port on the engine where you can hook a MECHANICAL oil pressure gage to the engine. In your case, you are going to have to go the extra mile and actually MOUNT one, either in a location where you can get to it quickly, or even in the cockpit if you have to. Common sense on the install applies, using a flow restrictor for safety, etc. 

  

 Just FYI, we run into issues like this all the time on the big jets. We have slave gages hooked up to test them just like I have suggested here. Electrical problems can be very very sneaky, and that could easily be what you are experiencing here. 

  

 Mark Bitterlich

--- On Sat, 1/15/11, CsprJM(at)aol.com <CsprJM(at)aol.com> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: CsprJM(at)aol.com <CsprJM(at)aol.com>

Subject: M-14pf oil pressure

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Saturday, January 15, 2011, 10:09 AM



  I am new to this list but many who are on it know of my recurring problem.  Nobody can figure it out.  From time to time I get no oil pressure on start.  It appears that the oil pump is cavitated.  If I pour a quart of oil down the tube on the top of the engine and try the start I get oil pressure after about 15 seconds.  No problems after that until the ugly problem reoccurs.  I have pulled and inspected the oil pump twice and it is in good shape.  The cockpit gages are o.k.  I have replaced all oil lines under suction.  The oil tank has been pulled and inspected.  Does anybody out there have any ideas?  John Casper

 	  Quote: 	
		  



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