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Engine heater

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coop85(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:04 pm Post subject: Engine heater

As winter has been well established this year already, I'm once again in the

mood for an engine heater.  I had planned on ordering the one from Van's

when I thought to do a Google search.  Here's something that came up and I'm

struggling for a reason not to go for it:

http://www.amazon.com/Kats-24150-Watt-Universal-Heater/dp/B000I8TQD6/ref=pd_

sim_auto_2



It appears to be thermostatically controlled and attaches to the oil sump

like the $178 version but at only $22.  Any points to consider would be

appreciated.



Marcus

40286

n223rv(at)wolflakeairport
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:56 pm Post subject: Engine heater

I don't think you will find a 4"x5" spot on your sump.  I had a hard time fitting on the 2 Reiff pads and they were like 1.5"x3 or so each..  The Reiff also has the cylinder bands, which is really nice...



Sent from my iPhone



On Jan 8, 2011, at 5:02 PM, "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)verizon.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 As winter has been well established this year already, I'm once again in the

 mood for an engine heater.  I had planned on ordering the one from Van's

 when I thought to do a Google search.  Here's something that came up and I'm

 struggling for a reason not to go for it:

 http://www.amazon.com/Kats-24150-Watt-Universal-Heater/dp/B000I8TQD6/ref=pd_

 sim_auto_2

 

 It appears to be thermostatically controlled and attaches to the oil sump

 like the $178 version but at only $22.  Any points to consider would be

 appreciated.

 

 Marcus

 40286

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879

Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:56 pm Post subject: Engine heater

I'm using the Reiff Preheater:



http://www.reiffpreheat.com/



It's been very nice to have over the years.  This winter I hope to

add the oil cooler heater also.  I have cylinder band heaters

for each cylinder, and a sump heater right now.  Generally, even

if it's below zero outside, my cylinders will be in the high

60's, and the warmer it is outside the warmer the engine will

be.  Most of the time when I fly in the winter, the temps are

between the 70's and 90F.  I actually hit 100F (which is where

I normally warm up to before takeoff) faster in the fall/winter/

spring, than I do in the summer, because of the preheat.



With the cowl plugs from Fightline, the whole engine generally

stays pretty warm.  The oil cooler out on the firewall doesn't

probably get as warm, so that's why I want to add a heater

for that.  See this:

http://www.reiffpreheat.com/Oil%20cooler%20heater.htm



I know you can heat just a sump, or heat with a lightbulb

under the cowl, but those I view as more of an occasional

workaround.  If you really want to get it warmed up and ensure

that the engine gets pumping lube right away, you want to heat

the whole engine and get all the oil flowing well.



I've used Tanis brand heaters on my previous plane. Those worked

well too.  I do like the cylinder band heaters from Reiff though.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

do not archive

On 1/8/2011 4:02 PM, Marcus Cooper wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 As winter has been well established this year already, I'm once again in the

 mood for an engine heater.  I had planned on ordering the one from Van's

 when I thought to do a Google search.  Here's something that came up and I'm

 struggling for a reason not to go for it:

 http://www.amazon.com/Kats-24150-Watt-Universal-Heater/dp/B000I8TQD6/ref=pd_

 sim_auto_2



 It appears to be thermostatically controlled and attaches to the oil sump

 like the $178 version but at only $22.  Any points to consider would be

 appreciated.



 Marcus

 40286

kearney

Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563

Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:16 pm Post subject: Engine heater

Marcus



I live where it gets quite nippy in winter - I have flow in in -30c weather.

About 10 years ago I installed on of these on my Piper Cherokee.



http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/symtecpreheat.php



I give this a 5 star rating as it does a great job. I like the oil sump

heater as it heats the old and then the engine. When my EGT / CHT temps are

up, it means the who engine, including the core is heated. Heating the

cylinders first seems counter intuitive but  may be wrong.



Any way, cheaper is not necessarily better. The nice thin about these

heaters is that they are elements in solid al epoxied to the sump. Not

silicone pads that might age.



Anyways, this just my opinion...



Cheers



Les

  



--

larkrv10(at)yahoo.ca
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:28 pm Post subject: Engine heater

Marcus, looks very similar to the Reiff oil pan heater on our 360 Lycoming.  Only difference is ours is only 100W.  I say go for it.

  

 Rick

 #40956

 Soutghampton, Ont



 

   From: Marcus Cooper <coop85(at)verizon.net>

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Sat, January 8, 2011 5:02:49 PM

Subject: Engine heater



--> RV10-List message posted by: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85(at)verizon.net (coop85(at)verizon.net)>



As winter has been well established this year already, I'm once again in the

mood for an engine heater.  I had planned on ordering the one from Van's

when I thought to do a Google search.  Here's something that came up and I'm

struggling for a reason not to go for it:

http://www.amazon.com/Kats-24150-Watt-Universal-Heater/dp/B000I8TQD6/ref=pd_

sim_auto_2



It appears to be thermostatically controlled and attaches to the oil sump

like the $178 version but at only $22.  Any points to consider would be

appreciated.



Ma       - MATRONICS nbsp; --> 

 [quote][b]

AirMike

Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 514
Location: Nevada

Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:56 pm Post subject: Engine heater

I put the Reiff - Vans pads on my IO540 this fall. Gets the oil to 60 degrees overnight which is fine for start-up (after a 10 degree night). The Vans pads are 2x50W. I notice that the one that you are looking at is 150W - Overkill?  I also note that the budget pad has no ground plug. I figure that with a $40K engine what the heck is $170 for a tried and true certified product. I also figure that with the Reiff product that there is a some liability trail if the product is defective.

_________________
See you OSH '18
Q/B - sold.

m.gabrielson(at)sbcglobal
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:09 am Post subject: Engine heater

On our Dakota which had the O-540, we installed the Reiff Turbo XP.   I think that was their highest wattage offering at the time (2004?).   It had 100W on each cylinder and 200W on the oil sump.   Pretty rapid warm up and if left on it held the oil at nearly 90dF according to the engine monitor w/ oil temp probe.   That was hangared but without cowl plugs in.    Probably overkill but the engine went beyond TBO in a flying club setting in the middle-midwest.

Matt Gabrielson

From:  AirMike <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net>

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Sun, January 9, 2011 11:56:04 PM

Subject: Re: Engine heater

 --> RV10-List message posted by: "AirMike" <Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net (Mikeabel(at)Pacbell.net)>

I put the Reiff - Vans pads on my IO540 this fall. Gets the oil to 60 degrees overnight which is fine for start-up (after a 10 degree night). The Vans pads are 2x50W. I notice that the one that you are looking at is 150W - Overkill?  I also note that the budget pad has no ground plug. I figure that with a $40K engine what the heck is $170 for a tried and true certified product. I also figure that with the Reiff product that there is a some liability trail if the product is defective.

--------

See you OSH '11 

Q/B - flying 1 yr+

Read this topic online here:

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:01 pm Post subject: Engine heater

A couple days ago I ran across a "letter to the editor" in Sport

Aviation (Dec. 2010, from the guy at Reiff Preheat systems.

I attached it in .jpg form for you.  He makes a couple good

points about engine heating and about leaving them on all the

time.  I know from people I've talked to over the years, I've

heard it various ways that you either can or can't leave

them on all the time.  The letter referenced this FAQ of

Reiff's:



http://www.reiffpreheat.com/FAQ.htm#QA3



I've always just left mine plugged in, that FAQ also references

an Aviation consumer article that I have, where they tested

heaters and the dewpoint and temperature of the engines and

basically found that if you have a good heater that heats

nice and warm on the whole upper (cylinders) and lower (sump),

that you're not very likely to have the conditions that will

cause high moisture and rust in your engine if you leave it

on all the time.



The Aviation Consumer article is worth reading if you have

a subscription.  If not, and you want it, let me know and

I can fax it or something.



If you have a sump heater only, you won't do as good a job

heating your engine as a whole, and you may indeed have

oil warmed that brings moisture up to condense up higher

where it's cold.  So it would be much more of a problem

with the cheap partial heaters.  I guess what I get out

of it is, if you really need heat, either buy a whole

system (I have the reiff with cylinder bands, which was

simple to install) and feel free to operate it is you wish,

or get a system that you only use when you plan to fly.



One of my issues is, I never know when I want to fly, at this

time of year.  The days sneak up on you.  If I continuous

heat, it'll be ready anytime.  If not, it won't necessarily

heat fast enough (unless maybe you buy the fast system),

to be worth turning on.  Add to that the complexity of

getting a remotely operated switch to turn on the heater.

In my case, I leave it on all the time and it's something

like 250 watts....so a big light bulb.  The bill isn't

bad for that to run all winter.  In fact, a remote switch

would cost me well over $100-150 (plus internet access with

a static IP) for a good one, and I don't spend that much

to heat the plane for a few years.  Also, it takes me

15-30 minutes to get to the hangar if I wanted to go there

and turn it on, and then go wait while it heats...a waste

of time. So leaving it on works perfectly for me.



One last point is, if you put it on a timer, or cycle

it on when you think you may fly, just in case, but then

don't fly, you're probably more likely to cause moisture

buildup from the heat cycling, than if you just brought

it up to temp and left it warm.  So if you heat it,

fly it, I guess is the idea, if you're not continuous.

Get the oil temp to 180F so you evaporate the moisture

before you put it away.



Anyway, all good things to think about in relation to

heaters.  I've had great luck continuous heating with

both a Tanis and Reiff system.  The only negative about

the Tanis for me today would be it uses the CHT bayonet

port, which I use for my probes.  If you use the Tanis,

you'll probably need ring type CHT probes which aren't

quite as accurate.



Happy winter flying!  Was out a few days ago...and with

my daughter we were climbing over 2200fpm with the 2 of

us.  Winter performance is great!



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

do not archive

On 1/8/2011 9:12 PM, Les Kearney wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Marcus



 I live where it gets quite nippy in winter - I have flow in in -30c weather.

 About 10 years ago I installed on of these on my Piper Cherokee.



 http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/symtecpreheat.php



 I give this a 5 star rating as it does a great job. I like the oil sump

 heater as it heats the old and then the engine. When my EGT / CHT temps are

 up, it means the who engine, including the core is heated. Heating the

 cylinders first seems counter intuitive but  may be wrong.



 Any way, cheaper is not necessarily better. The nice thin about these

 heaters is that they are elements in solid al epoxied to the sump. Not

 silicone pads that might age.



 Anyways, this just my opinion...



 Cheers



 Les

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rv10builder(at)verizon.ne
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:20 am Post subject: Engine heater

One item you didn't cover was the concern of power being applied while 

unsupervised could very well cause a short and burn your hangar down. I know 

it's rather rare but 

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=67311



This was here locally, my understanding is that there was a short and a fire 

began. It was not a preheater in this case.

Pascal



--

rv10builder(at)verizon.ne
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:39 am Post subject: Engine heater

My point was just a reminder about power in general (trickle charger, air 

compressor, etc) not specific to a preheater that is applying heat.

More of a reminder about be careful to power off items that are not needed 

when away.



--

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:14 pm Post subject: Engine heater

The 'cause' as stated in the thread was sub-standard wiring.  Electrical 

fires are usually due to overloaded outlets, frayed wires, and ....... 

replacing that 15 or 20 amp breaker with 50 amp ones.  The breaker swap 

is the most squawked item when the electrical system is checked 15 or 20 

years after the hangars were approved.  Any 'shorts' should trip the 

breaker ..... if it's the correct one.



Linn



On 1/19/2011 10:16 AM, Pascal wrote:

[quote] 



 One item you didn't cover was the concern of power being applied while 

 unsupervised could very well cause a short and burn your hangar down. 

 I know it's rather rare but 

 http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=67311



 This was here locally, my understanding is that there was a short and 

 a fire began. It was not a preheater in this case.

 Pascal



 --

rv10flyer

Joined: 25 Aug 2009
Posts: 364

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:07 pm Post subject: Re: Engine heater

I'll be preheating before I fly with electric furnace/blower and ductwork to cowl inlets. Oil cooler must be preheated too. I plan on flying often enough to keep the engine well lubricated. I don't want the extra expense and weight to carry around for the other 8 months of the year.

_________________
Wayne G.

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