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[LML] Re: Beware update

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bhughes(at)qnsi.net
Guest

Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 5:26 am Post subject: [LML] Re: Beware update

Here’s a post from another group that may be of intrest to some. It appears AOPA has been in contact with CBP regarding a “new trend”. I find AOPA’s (Craig Spence) comments disturbing.   

   

Bobby Hughes  

N416AS  

        

  

    

---

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879

Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 11:32 am Post subject: [LML] Re: Beware update

I've been watching that one too. I'm thinking that as soon

as they get their letter ready, I'm going to get it out to

all my local representatives.  There's only one way

this kind of thing is gonna stop and that's if we take

the time to make a stir about it.  Our liberties are

being taken away pretty quick.  Sounds like over time

we may have more worries to come in the Amateur Built

category too.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

do not archive

On 5/2/2011 9:29 AM, Bobby J. Hughes wrote:

[quote] Here�s a post from another group that may be of intrest to some. It

 appears AOPA has been in contact with CBP regarding a �new trend�. I

 find AOPA�s (Craig Spence) comments disturbing.



 Bobby Hughes



 N416AS



 ------------------------------------------------------------------------



 ---

johngoodman

Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA

Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 1:49 pm Post subject: Re: [LML] Re: Beware update

How about giving us a little info on the subject - I haven't a clue on what you're talking about.

John

_________________
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011

dmaib@me.com

Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 455
Location: New Smyrna Beach, Florida

Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 6:08 pm Post subject: Re: [LML] Re: Beware update

 	  johngoodman wrote: 	
		  How about giving us a little info on the subject - I haven't a clue on what you're talking about.

John 	




Me too! What is the story here?

_________________
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
New Smyrna Beach, FL

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879

Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 8:13 pm Post subject: [LML] Re: Beware update

I think it was in the original post I replied to, but

here, I'll post it below my signature. It's from

the Lancair list.  Also, if this post referrs to

a fax, see the attached .pdf that has some inaccuracies

in it that the CBP are using.

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD

---------------------------------------

As most of you on the list know we had an incident in April here in St. 

Louis where one of our own was "stopped" by local police based on a 

"tip" from Customs and Border Patrol. Here is an update to that story:

Bob Rickard (who was the individual stopped) and I have received more 

emails from other Lancair pilots who have been stopped as well based on 

"tips" from CBP. So this is not an isolated incident. I contacted AOPA, 

my congressman's staff, and CBP themselves. AOPA's Craig Spence is 

presently working this issue on our behalf. He already had ascheduled 

meeting with CBP on Wednesday, so he brought this subject up. He said 

that CBP wants to be the new "skycop".  He conveyed our concerns to them 

--targeting GA for poloce searches and the issue of the fax that is sent 

to police agencies justifying detaining pilots. Mr. Spence told them 

that the fax has errors on it and agreed to help them correct those. On 

the issue of tracking GA flights and detaining pilots, Mr. Spence said 

the CBP is not budging. He believes we need to take this to 

Congressional leaders --he said we are in for a long battle with CBP.

The day after Mr. Spence's meeting I received two phone calls from CBP 

(so it is true about smelly stuff rolling downhill). The first call was 

from "Carlos" at CBP HQ. Carlos works in Gen. Mike Kostelnik's office in 

DC. Kostelnik, a retired AF two star,  is the head of the CBP Air and 

Marine Center. Carlos wanted to know what our concerns were and I 

repeated that we did not like getting stopped based on bogus 

information. He wanted to know how I was certain CBP was behind these 

stops (he implied they had nothing to do with it) and I said it was from 

information from the local police and the fax AMOC sent to them. (Ah, 

the truth and evidence is so great)  He was pretty agitated during our 

conversation and said if we were stopped and the police questioned us 

then we should tell them what they wanted to know. I said I disagreed 

(Fifth Amendment) . I gave him the specifics of Bobaloos stop two weeks 

ago and he agreed to look into it.  I said that in the best light their 

intell is either unvetted or their analyis is poor. He disagreed (of 

course) and gave many other reasons (all bogus) as to why their intel 

was good. He said it could have been because the aircraft was a prior 

drug aircraft. I replied that would be pretty difficult since I built 

it, flew it and then sold it to Col. Rickard. I said that in the worst 

light --their folks are making up stories to get the local police to 

stop GA pilots--for the crime of ....flying. Of course he about blew a 

gasket. I asked him to  tell me where CBP got this information about Bob 

carrying a fugitive. He replied that is a matter of national security 

and could not tell me.

A couple of hours later I receive a phone call from Tony C. at the CBP 

AMOC in Riverside, CA asking again about my concerns. Again I expressed 

the same and while he was very polite and cordial and appears to be a 

dedicated public servant doing a tough job I reiterated that law abiding 

GA pilots do not enjoy getting stopped by law enforcement based on 

seemingly bogus information. Tony said they are just trying to "put 

their eyes on people"--meaning us. I remarked that there has to be a 

better way of doing that than surrounding a pilot with 6 police cars and 

ten officers. He said they have  tough job catching bad guys. I said 

that  that they need to do a better job screening their intel. It seemed 

both he and Carlos went back and forth on whether the intel came from 

internal sources or external ones. At one point he said people were 

calling their hotline with tips -- so I challenged him as to how someone 

would know the Mr. McCrae was on Bob's airplane and then called them in 

Riverside to report it. The story seemed to change to they had strong 

intel internally. Never an admission that they screwed up. Just more 

reasons why their intel is solid. Even at one point denying it is their 

intel-- "it comes from somewhere else-- they are just the middle man." 

Tony said they are all ex military and are all pilots so I pointed oujt 

that the fax has numerous errors and the FARs contains no language 

allowing detention of  a pilot for failing to have his medical or 

logbook on his person (look for that to change as CBP will probably 

write criminal regulations re: pilots) . The whole time I could hear a 

beep every ten seconds or so probably indicating I was being recorded. 

Althoug Tony was pleasant there was no progress on this issue. None.

I spoke with my congressman's senior staffer as well. I relayed the 

details of the issue to her and she seemed sincerely interested. She 

said it is best to generate a letter from our organizations (we are) and 

forward that with a personal note to all of our congressmen.  She said I 

should be carefull so that I don't become a target.

All for now.

Jeff "Bullseye" Edwards

On 5/2/2011 9:08 PM, dmaib(at)me.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 johngoodman wrote:

> How about giving us a little info on the subject - I haven't a clue on what you're talking about.

> John

 Me too! What is the story here?

 --------

 David Maib

 RV-10 #40559

Air_&_Marine_Ops_Center_Guide_to_Checks_on_GA_Aircraft[1].pdf

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Air_&_Marine_Ops_Center_Guide_to_Checks_on_GA_Aircraft[1].pdf

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Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 1:48 am Post subject: [LML] Re: Beware update

On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 5:49 PM, johngoodman <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 How about giving us a little info on the subject - I haven't a clue on what you're talking about.

 John


	


 For those asking, this was the original message. Incident A Lancair

pilot was detained at small MO airport after flying there from CA.

Request to local police came from CBP. Allegation was some illegal was

a passenger...Only pilot and wife were on board. Pilot was AF reserve

F22 pilot.



On 5/2/2011 10:29 AM, Bobby J. Hughes wrote:

[quote] Here�s a post from another group that may be of interest to some. It

 appears AOPA has been in contact with CBP regarding a �new trend�. I

 find AOPA�s (Craig Spence) comments disturbing.



 Bobby Hughes



 N416AS



 ------------------------------------------------------------------------



 ---

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

dlm34077(at)q.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 2:21 am Post subject: [LML] Re: Beware update

Has anyone checked whether this is a hoax? Only half of the first 6 points 

have any basis in fact and are required by FARs. No 337s, no logbook, no 

escort pass,; I will pass this to my Congress person. This goes back to 

basics when original license was obtained; we all knew/know what documents 

are required in the aircraft.

---

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 3:39 am Post subject: [LML] Re: Beware update

Point is the memo originated from CBP not FAA. I've seen no indication

of a hoax. Just the usual govt agency trying to spread its turf into

another agency's arena and knows just enough to be dangerous. One

situation does require one specific 337 to be on board, if there is a

fuel tank in the cabin that is not factory original.



On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 6:18 AM, DLM <dlm34077(at)q.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Has anyone checked whether this is a hoax? Only half of the first 6 points

 have any basis in fact and are required by FARs. No 337s, no logbook, no

 escort pass,; I will pass this to my Congress person. This goes back to

 basics when original license was obtained; we all knew/know what documents

 are required in the aircraft.


	


 	  Quote:

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

cloudvalley(at)comcast.ne
Guest

Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 4:26 am Post subject: [LML] Re: Beware update

Hello, 

Here's another incident in 2009; when interviewed, the pilot mentioned two other cases he knew of in the SOCal area. This is no hoax. 

http://www.avweb.com/podcast/podcast/AudioPodcast_DavidPerry_CustomsBorderPatrol_CheckScare_200520-1.html?kw=RelatedStory 

  

Anyone want to file IFR? 

  

Brian and Ruth Preston 



---

partner14

Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 540
Location: Granbury Texas

Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 6:29 am Post subject: [LML] Re: Beware update

Ok guys, I can't help myself.... to me, almost as bad as the aircraft being stopped in the first place, is the number of cars and officers who were involved!!!!!!!!!  It's not like they were trying to stop a 747.  Does anyone ask themselves, "what would these 10 officers be doing if they hadn't pursued this goose chase"?????  

 The same kind of thing happened across from our commercial propt in Calif.... someone set a 55 gal drum of water out in a field.  Someone called the EPA or some other govt entity.... we also had 6 vehicles and 8-10 highly paid govt workers out here.... which again makes me wonder what they would have been doing if not standing around out in this field???  Unfortunately, the answer is, NOT MUCH.  So this is really all about empire building.  If just one stop of a GA aircraft actually results in a "find" of some sorts, this will justify the addition of a whole new department, adding more govt jobs and more hassle for the public citizens.  Honest guys, this is how it works.  A whole new bureaucracy would be formed.  And maybe again the worst part, once formed, it never goes away, and just gets bigger!

 Don McDonald



 

   From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 6:36:07 AM

Subject: Re: RV10-List: [LML] Re: Beware update



--> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com (apilot2(at)gmail.com)>



Point is the memo originated from CBP not FAA. I've seen no indication

of a hoax. Just the usual govt agency trying to spread its turf into

another agency's arena and knows just enough to be dangerous. One

situation does require one specific 337 to be on board, if there is a

fuel tank in the cabin that is not factory original.



On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 6:18 AM, DLM <dlm34077(at)q.com (dlm34077(at)q.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> RV10-List message posted by: "DLM" <dlm34077(at)q.com (dlm34077(at)q.com)>



 Has anyone checked whether this is a hoax? Only half of the first 6 points

 have any basis in fact and are required by FARs. No 337s, no logbook, no

 escort pass,; I will pass this to my Congress person. This goes back to

 basics when original license was obtained; we all knew/know what documents

 are required in the aircraft.


	


 	  Quote: 	
		  


	




 [quote][b]

_________________
Don A. McDonald
40636

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