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Liberty bell

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drc(at)wscare.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:09 pm Post subject: Liberty bell

To all;

Anyone hear about the B17 crash today?

I saw the video on CNN - looks like Liberty Bell, the one John Shuttleworth flys.

Any info?

Dr. Herb Coussons, MD

drc(at)wscare.com

2641 Development Drive

Green Bay, WI  54311

Cell 920-639-8434

Work 920-338-6868

Fax 920-338-6869

cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:17 pm Post subject: Liberty bell

Yep she's gone.  Had an in flight fire, and could not make it back to  airport.  All 7 crew & pax alive.

 Pappy

  

  In a message dated 6/13/2011 5:09:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  drc(at)wscare.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Yak-List message posted by: Herb Coussons <drc(at)wscare.com>



To    all;

Anyone hear about the B17 crash today?

I saw the video on CNN -    looks like Liberty Bell, the one John Shuttleworth flys.

Any    info?

Dr. Herb Coussons, MD

drc(at)wscare.com

2641 Development    Drive

Green Bay, WI  54311

Cell 920-639-8434

Work    920-338-6868

Fax  ================================================e  ties  Day  ================================================               - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS  ================================================             - List Contribution Web Site  sp;                             ===================================================



	


  [quote][b]

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:51 pm Post subject: Liberty bell

A good friend from the squadron flies her and the P-40 (among others). He was on her wing when she went down. All got out ok..landed in a muddy corn field but not wet enough to save the “Liberty Bell.” Right now Hollywood is answering a boatload of phone calls and news media questions.

Doc

 

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of cjpilot710(at)aol.com

Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 4:15 PM

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Liberty bell

 

Yep she's gone.  Had an in flight fire, and could not make it back to airport.  All 7 crew & pax alive.



Pappy



 



In a message dated 6/13/2011 5:09:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, drc(at)wscare.com (drc(at)wscare.com) writes:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

--> Yak-List message posted by: Herb Coussons <drc(at)wscare.com (drc(at)wscare.com)>



To all;

Anyone hear about the B17 crash today?

I saw the video on CNN - looks like Liberty Bell, the one John Shuttleworth flys.

Any info?

Dr. Herb Coussons, MD

drc(at)wscare.com (drc(at)wscare.com)

2641 Development Drive

Green Bay, WI  54311

Cell 920-639-8434

Work 920-338-6868

Fax =======================e ties Day =======================              - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS =======================            - List Contribution Web Site sp;                         =  http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List 	
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  [quote][b]

billaustin(at)blomand.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:03 pm Post subject: Liberty bell

Was John Shuttleworth the PIC?  

         

  

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp M.D.

 Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 4:49 PM

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Liberty bell  

  

   

A good friend from the squadron flies her and the P-40 (among others). He was on her wing when she went down. All got out ok..landed in a muddy corn field but not wet enough to save the “Liberty Bell.” Right now Hollywood is answering a boatload of phone calls and news media questions.  

Doc  

       

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of cjpilot710(at)aol.com

 Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 4:15 PM

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Liberty bell  

  

  

     

Yep she's gone.  Had an in flight fire, and could not make it back to airport.  All 7 crew & pax alive.  

    

Pappy  

    

   

      

In a message dated 6/13/2011 5:09:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, drc(at)wscare.com (drc(at)wscare.com) writes:  

   	  Quote: 	
		    

--> Yak-List message posted by: Herb Coussons <drc(at)wscare.com (drc(at)wscare.com)>

 

 To all;

 Anyone hear about the B17 crash today?

 I saw the video on CNN - looks like Liberty Bell, the one John Shuttleworth flys.

 Any info?

 

 

 Dr. Herb Coussons, MD

 drc(at)wscare.com (drc(at)wscare.com)

 2641 Development Drive

 Green Bay, WI  54311

 Cell 920-639-8434

 Work 920-338-6868

 Fax =======================e ties Day =======================              - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS =======================            - List Contribution Web Site sp;                         =     http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List 	
 	  Quote: 	
		   http://forums.matronics.com 	
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		   http://www.matronics.com/contribution 	
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0  [quote][b]

wdjester(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:25 pm Post subject: Liberty bell

no, spoke to John today.  He was not aboard. He was going to ferry the  aircraft for maint. related to fuel problems from Indy I believe to Ft.  Wayne.   

  From: Bill Austin (billaustin(at)blomand.net) 

 Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 6:01 PM

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: RE: Liberty bell

Was John Shuttleworth  the PIC? 

From:  owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com]  On Behalf Of Roger Kemp  M.D.

Sent: Monday, June 13,  2011 4:49 PM

To:  yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject:  RE: Liberty bell

A good friend from  the squadron flies her and the P-40 (among others). He was on her wing when she  went down. All got out ok..landed in a muddy corn field but not wet enough to  save the â€œLiberty Bell.â€ Right now Hollywood is answering a boatload of phone  calls and news media questions. 

Doc 

From:  owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com]  On Behalf Of  cjpilot710(at)aol.com

Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 4:15  PM

To:  yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject:  Re: Liberty bell

Yep she's gone.   Had an in flight fire, and could not make it back to airport.  All 7 crew  & pax alive.

Pappy

In a message dated  6/13/2011 5:09:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, drc(at)wscare.com (drc(at)wscare.com)  writes:

  	  Quote: 	

--> Yak-List    message posted by: Herb Coussons <drc(at)wscare.com (drc(at)wscare.com)>

To all;

Anyone    hear about the B17 crash today?

I saw the video on CNN - looks like Liberty    Bell, the one John Shuttleworth flys.

Any info?

Dr. Herb    Coussons, MD

drc(at)wscare.com (drc(at)wscare.com)

2641    Development Drive

Green Bay, WI  54311

Cell 920-639-8434

Work    920-338-6868

Fax =======================e ties Day    =======================                 - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS    =======================               - List Contribution Web Site    sp;                            =   http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List 	
 	  Quote: 	
		   http://forums.matronics.com 	
 	  Quote: 	
		   http://www.matronics.com/contribution 	
 	  Quote: 	

0 	  Quote: 	

1

    [quote][b]

wdjester(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:30 pm Post subject: Liberty bell

Sad event.  I flew formation off of her wing last year with two CJs.  All 

the more memorable now.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07IIb6CjFP0



--

HawkerPilot2015

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 503

Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:15 am Post subject: Re: Liberty bell

Was the fuel problem the cause of the inflight fire and if so, why were there pax on board with a known maintenance deficiency? 



A huge loss and it appears at first glance, one that might have been preventable.

cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:38 am Post subject: Liberty bell

Right now I don't think anyone really knows what happened.  I know a  lot of speculation happens to soon sometimes.  These airplanes are  old.  You have to watch them real close.  I aborted a takeoff on a  5,000' runway at about 95kts in the B-24 several years ago.   Reason?   Fuel started pouring from an inboard engine fuel  shutoff valve.  These valve are located RIGHT OVER the generator control  panel.  (Sorry guys that was the way it was designed).  The abort was  exciting but trying to stop that fuel flow was even worse.  We shut down  the engine with the mixture and than the mags as we taxied back.  Still the  fuel was flowing.  "OH! Wait!  Turn off the fuel boost pump!"   The fuel finally stopped.  In the distractions of an abort, clearing  runways, ATC etc - - things are ALWAYS forgotten.  That valve had been  working fatefully for years.  With no sign of even starting to wear  out.  And guess what - those were rare valves.  It took us 2 days to  repair.  As simple as these old airplane are compared to the same size  aircraft of today, they still have many failure points.  Some of them are a  bitch to check and/or repair.  Lets give these guys a little time to sort  things out and at this point be happy no one was killed.  We will  eventually get the straight scoop.  Its to bad to lose a B-17 particularly  a flying one.  But the valve of a B-17 (if you happened to own one) just  went up by 1/8.  

  

 Jim "Pappy" Goolsby 

  

  

  

  In a message dated 6/14/2011 7:18:41 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  NiftyYak50(at)fuse.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Yak-List message posted by: "Tim Gagnon"    <NiftyYak50(at)fuse.net>



Was the fuel problem the cause of the    inflight fire and if so, why were there pax on board with a known maintenance    deficiency? 



A huge loss and it appears at first glance, one that might    have been preventable.





Read this topic online    here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=342932#342932===============================================

_-=   e  ties  Day  ================================================               - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS  ================================================             - List Contribution Web Site  sp;                             ===================================================



	


  [quote][b]

myersf(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:01 am Post subject: Liberty bell

From a lurker, sorry…

 

I think it was a masterful job of airmanship. Obstacles, fire, low altitude, low altitude return, not a lot of spare performance. Wow.

In looking at the top view of the burned out wreck you see the three wheel tracks. Straight till the end. Everyone walked out.

This performance may be up to the level of the Sioux City DC-10, I think it might be.

 

As a Captain at a regional airline with close to 10K in the log, AIRMANSHIP in the cockpit is the biggest issue I see in the up and coming pilots. The kids can program the computers but then make scary visual approaches. Unfortunately a lot of these young guys may never truly understand just how good a job those pilots and observers did getting that B-17 down. That’s why I like reading this YAK list. There are some awesome pilots here.

 

At a Flight Instructor Refresher I took many years ago one of the presenters said “When an aircraft fails in the air, depending on the malfunction - it has decided to commit suicide. We must all decide to choose life over preserving the aircraft. We must make it to the ground safe and intact EVEN if the aircraft is destroyed – When I am walking away, I may even drop a match on it.” This advice has been in my head for over 20 years. I have always tried to lead my crew with these examples. Again GREAT JOB!

  [quote][b]

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:00 am Post subject: Liberty bell

I do not agree with your posting Tim.  



Mark Bitterlich 



--

HawkerPilot2015

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 503

Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:01 am Post subject: Re: Liberty bell

You are free to do that...and it certainly would not be the first time. 



Lets review my post line by line:



"Was the fuel problem the cause of the inflight fire" 



Asked a question..did not make a statement. Some here have spoken to people close to the airplane and have indicated there was a known issue with the fuel system. Could have been a leak, a failed pump, ect..hence why I asked the question. 



"why were there pax on board with a known maintenance deficiency"



As indicated in a previous post, there was a known maintenance issue that required the airplane to be ferried for mx. I am curious as to why pax would be on board with a writeup...especially for fuel. Again, asked a question, did not make a statement. 



"A huge loss"



Do you disagree with this point? 



"and it appears at first glance, one that might have been preventable." 



Note the bold. From what I have read here, in the media (taken with due caution) and from other sources, there was an outstanding mx issue of some sort. I hope that the final cause of the accident does not point to that. What the crew did was amazing and their efforts to salvage the airplane and her occupants are certainly nothing short of amazing. 



Having flown and crewed a B-17, I under these airplanes are "fragile" and do not have the safety systems we have today. These airplanes were not built to last much past the war. It is a testament to Boeing, and the crews and volunteers who fly and maintain them, that they have survived to be enjoyed by millions but also stand as a reminder of the men who took them to war, many that I have met and the pleasure to fly. 



It is a massive loss to the community and to anyone who loves these memorials as I do. I truly hope this was simply an unfortunate failure of a system unknown to the crew until it revealed itself in flight. 

 	  mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m wrote: 	
		  I do not agree with your posting Tim.  



Mark Bitterlich 



--

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:14 pm Post subject: Liberty bell

As I said, I do not agree with your posting.  



I do not think it is a topic that is worth picking apart on the YAK

list.   



And that is all I have to say about it.  



Have a nice day. 



Mark Bitterlich 

--

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