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keithward1(at)bellsouth.n
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:08 am    Post subject: New to list Reply with quote
Forgive me if this is a redundant topic. This is my first post and I'm sure there will be a learning curve.

I am helping friends with their RV-10s wiring. They are using Bob's Z-13/8 schematic.

Here are a few questions:

Can the essential bus be powered at the same time as the main bus? Would this be helpful to trouble shoot the main bus components while the essential bus keeps the necessary items happy.

If you have more than 20amps on the essential bus, what happens. the SD8 back-up alternator only provides 20amps. By drawing more than the SD8 can provide, does the system just draw down the battery until components start shutting down, or do other issues occur?

Thanks for the help.

Keith

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fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:29 am    Post subject: New to list Reply with quote
Welcome Keith,

I'll try to answer a couple of your questions as I too am wiring now using
the 13/8 format.

The SD8 is an 8 amp alternator and can be 10 at high RPM (as I recall. Not
looking at specs right now).

If the main alt is off-line and the SD8 is on, it will produce what is being
asked of it to a max of it's capacity depending on RPM. The balance will
then be supplied by the battery until it starts running out of electrons.

After that, I would think some things will start shutting down, others will
start behaving is strange ways before shutting down completely.

Bevan


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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:57 pm    Post subject: New to list Reply with quote
At 02:05 PM 7/8/2011, you wrote:


Forgive me if this is a redundant topic. This is my first post and
I'm sure there will be a learning curve.

Welcome to the list!
I am helping friends with their RV-10s wiring. They are using Bob's
Z-13/8 schematic.

Here are a few questions:

Can the essential bus be powered at the same time as the main
bus? Would this be helpful to trouble shoot the main bus components
while the essential bus keeps the necessary items happy.

I'm not sure what you're asking here. Any time the
main bus is up (battery contactor closed) the endurance
bus is automatically powered through the normal feed-
path diode.

By closing the e-bus alternate feed path switch, the
e-bus components will stay powered directly from the
battery. If the SD-8 (8 amp alternator) is turned
ON and assuming that the engine is running at or above
2600 RPM, you can get 8+ amps out of the SD-8.

If you have more than 20amps on the essential bus, what happens. the
SD8 back-up alternator only provides 20amps. By drawing more than
the SD8 can provide, does the system just draw down the battery until
components start shutting down, or do other issues occur?

When any alternator is overloaded, the bus voltage sags
until the battery to starts picking up the difference
. . . somewhere around 12.5 volts. This condition
will continue until the battery drops below 11.0
volts whereupon it contains less than 5% of its useful
energy. After that the voltage falls more rapidly
and things start mis-behaving.

For endurance mode operations, the Plan-B checklist
should call for shutting the main bus OFF, e-bus
alternate feed ON, SD-8 Alternator ON. Then reduce
e-bus loads to 8A or less until airport of intended
destination is in sight. After that, you can turn
on what ever extra goodies are deemed necessary
for graceful approach to landing whether on the
e-bus or main bus.

I'm having trouble imagining what kind of troubleshooting
activity would be carried out with the main bus
down an only the e-bus on.

Bob . . .

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keithward1(at)bellsouth.n
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:24 pm    Post subject: New to list Reply with quote
Bob,

Thanks for the reply. My thought was that if the essential buss switch was closed and the main buss was also alive, you could cycle the master and the primary alternator switches to see if that would solve the problem and bring the primary alternator back online. With the essential bus on, the necessary components would still be powered even while the master and alternator switches/breakers were being cycled.

This is probably flawed thinking, so please let me know your thoughts.

Thanks,

Keith

On Jul 8, 2011, at 10:53 PM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:

Quote:



At 02:05 PM 7/8/2011, you wrote:


Forgive me if this is a redundant topic. This is my first post and I'm sure there will be a learning curve.

Welcome to the list!


I am helping friends with their RV-10s wiring. They are using Bob's Z-13/8 schematic.

Here are a few questions:

Can the essential bus be powered at the same time as the main bus? Would this be helpful to trouble shoot the main bus components while the essential bus keeps the necessary items happy.

I'm not sure what you're asking here. Any time the
main bus is up (battery contactor closed) the endurance
bus is automatically powered through the normal feed-
path diode.

By closing the e-bus alternate feed path switch, the
e-bus components will stay powered directly from the
battery. If the SD-8 (8 amp alternator) is turned
ON and assuming that the engine is running at or above
2600 RPM, you can get 8+ amps out of the SD-8.

If you have more than 20amps on the essential bus, what happens. the SD8 back-up alternator only provides 20amps. By drawing more than the SD8 can provide, does the system just draw down the battery until components start shutting down, or do other issues occur?

When any alternator is overloaded, the bus voltage sags
until the battery to starts picking up the difference
. . . somewhere around 12.5 volts. This condition
will continue until the battery drops below 11.0
volts whereupon it contains less than 5% of its useful
energy. After that the voltage falls more rapidly
and things start mis-behaving.

For endurance mode operations, the Plan-B checklist
should call for shutting the main bus OFF, e-bus
alternate feed ON, SD-8 Alternator ON. Then reduce
e-bus loads to 8A or less until airport of intended
destination is in sight. After that, you can turn
on what ever extra goodies are deemed necessary
for graceful approach to landing whether on the
e-bus or main bus.

I'm having trouble imagining what kind of troubleshooting
activity would be carried out with the main bus
down an only the e-bus on.

Bob . . .









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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:11 pm    Post subject: New to list Reply with quote
At 10:21 PM 7/8/2011, you wrote:
Quote:


Bob,

Thanks for the reply. My thought was that if the essential buss
switch was closed and the main buss was also alive, you could cycle
the master and the primary alternator switches to see if that would
solve the problem and bring the primary alternator back
online. With the essential bus on, the necessary components would
still be powered even while the master and alternator
switches/breakers were being cycled.

Yup, that's how it works.

Quote:
This is probably flawed thinking, so please let me know your thoughts.

You need to re-set your thinking as to the value
and function of the e-bus. "E" stands for endurance.
The idea behind it is to prevent main alternator
loss from becoming an emergency. You craft a
"Plan-B" that enables you to continue flight
to airport of intended destination by
partitioning off those equipment items
useful for cruising flight powered by
(1) battery only or (2) SD-8 plus Battery.

See chapter on system reliability and the notes
for Z-figures . . . particularly note for
Z-13/8.

Random, exploratory switch flipping in flight
is not recommended. More than one system failure
has been made worse by not having a simple, proven
Plan-B for dealing with alternator failure.

Bob . . .

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keithward1(at)bellsouth.n
Guest
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:31 am    Post subject: New to list Reply with quote
Bob,

Makes sense. Thanks for the help!

Keith
On Jul 9, 2011, at 12:07 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

Quote:

>

At 10:21 PM 7/8/2011, you wrote:
>
> >
>
> Bob,
>
> Thanks for the reply. My thought was that if the essential buss
> switch was closed and the main buss was also alive, you could cycle
> the master and the primary alternator switches to see if that would
> solve the problem and bring the primary alternator back online.
> With the essential bus on, the necessary components would still be
> powered even while the master and alternator switches/breakers were
> being cycled.

Yup, that's how it works.

> This is probably flawed thinking, so please let me know your
> thoughts.

You need to re-set your thinking as to the value
and function of the e-bus. "E" stands for endurance.
The idea behind it is to prevent main alternator
loss from becoming an emergency. You craft a
"Plan-B" that enables you to continue flight
to airport of intended destination by
partitioning off those equipment items
useful for cruising flight powered by
(1) battery only or (2) SD-8 plus Battery.

See chapter on system reliability and the notes
for Z-figures . . . particularly note for
Z-13/8.

Random, exploratory switch flipping in flight
is not recommended. More than one system failure
has been made worse by not having a simple, proven
Plan-B for dealing with alternator failure.

Bob . . .



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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:18 pm    Post subject: New to list Reply with quote
At 01:28 PM 7/9/2011, you wrote:
Quote:


Bob,

Makes sense. Thanks for the help!

My pleasure sir. Keep us apprised of your
progress.

Bob . . .

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