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redrocketrider
Joined: 13 May 2011
Posts: 67
Location: Nervino airport
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 Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:22 am Post subject: EGT question |
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Hello KF Flyers, Food for thought? The EGT on our 80 HP Rotax goes up when you retard the throttle to 5000 rpm and it actually pegs the gauge.(west tach) If you run full power(at) 5350 rpm it stays at 1550 to 1575 degrees. It has a new probe, plugs are good, Carbs are stock jetting from the factory and needle jet I confirmed settings with Lockwood, and the BING manual, It really runs great except this issue. I do not want to cause a future problem. BTW the ship has done this from day one, I recently confirmed this with the builder. It has 310 Hrs. It has only one EGT probe and it is at the factory suggested location. Right rear exhaust. Anyone have any ideas. Thanks,
Toodie & Bob Marshall
Beckwourth, CA
KF/4/1200 flying
[quote][b]
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:56 am Post subject: EGT question |
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Could the timing be retarded by any chance? A late timing setting
will allow fuel to be still burning as the exhaust valve.....oops! Is
this a two-stroke engine? Maybe the same laws apply? I have recently
discovered that my Jabiru engine will respond with much lower EGT's
when the timing is advanced, so a late timing should increase the
EGT's, I would think.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Prince prop 64 x 30, P-tip
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 36mm)
Status: down for repair....
On Oct 18, 2011, at 10:19 AM, rtmarshall wrote:
| Quote: | Hello KF Flyers, Food for thought? The EGT on our 80 HP Rotax
goes up when you retard the throttle to 5000 rpm and it actually
pegs the gauge.(west tach) If you run full power(at) 5350 rpm it stays
at 1550 to 1575 degrees. It has a new probe, plugs are good, Carbs
are stock jetting from the factory and needle jet I confirmed
settings with Lockwood, and the BING manual, It really runs great
except this issue. I do not want to cause a future problem. BTW the
ship has done this from day one, I recently confirmed this with the
builder. It has 310 Hrs. It has only one EGT probe and it is at the
factory suggested location. Right rear exhaust. Anyone have any
ideas. Thanks,
Toodie & Bob Marshall
Beckwourth, CA
KF/4/1200 flying
www.matronics.com/contribution _-
============================================================
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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:11 am Post subject: EGT question |
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Hi Bob,
It sounds to me like you may be over pitched on your prop. If you can only get 5350 with full power would indicate too much pitch. If you could check your MP, you would find it very high.
Clint
| Quote: | From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net
Subject: Re: EGT question
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 12:52:02 -0400
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Could the timing be retarded by any chance? A late timing setting
will allow fuel to be still burning as the exhaust valve.....oops! Is
this a two-stroke engine? Maybe the same laws apply? I have recently
discovered that my Jabiru engine will respond with much lower EGT's
when the timing is advanced, so a late timing should increase the
EGT's, I would think.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Prince prop 64 x 30, P-tip
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 36mm)
Status: down for repair....
On Oct 18, 2011, at 10:19 AM, rtmarshall wrote:
> Hello KF Flyers, Food for thought? The EGT on our 80 HP Rotax
> goes up when you retard the throttle to 5000 rpm and it actually
> pegs the gauge.(west tach) If you run full power(at) 5350 rpm it stays
> at 1550 to 1575 degrees. It has a new probe, plugs are good, Carbs
> are stock jetting from the factory and needle jet I confirmed
> settings with Lockwood, and the BING manual, It really runs great
> except this issue. I do not want to cause a future problem. BTW the
> ship has done this from day one, I recently confirmed this with the
> builder. It has 310 Hrs. It has only one EGT probe and it is at the
> factory suggested location. Right rear exhaust. Anyone have any
> ideas. Thanks,
> Toodie & Bob Marshall
> Beckwourth, CA
> KF/4/1200 flying
> www.matronics.com/contribution _-
> === Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
>======================== |
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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redrocketrider
Joined: 13 May 2011
Posts: 67
Location: Nervino airport
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:37 am Post subject: EGT question |
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Hi Clint, I should have said the 5350 was in a climb configuration, the issue is not at full power but when I pull back on the throttle to go to cruise at 5000 RPM that the EGT goes up. It is a 80 HP four stroke Rotax. thanks for the help.
Toodie & Bob Marshall
Beckwourth, CA
KF/4/1200 flying
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 10:09 AM
[quote] To: Kitfox list (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: EGT question
Hi Bob,
It sounds to me like you may be over pitched on your prop. If you can only get 5350 with full power would indicate too much pitch. If you could check your MP, you would find it very high.
Clint
> From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net (lynnmatt(at)jps.net)
| Quote: | Subject: Re: EGT question
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 12:52:02 -0400
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Could the timing be retarded by any chance? A late timing setting
will allow fuel to be still burning as the exhaust valve.....oops! Is
this a two-stroke engine? Maybe the same laws apply? I have recently
discovered that my Jabiru engine will respond with much lower EGT's
when the timing is advanced, so a late timing should increase the
EGT's, I would think.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Prince prop 64 x 30, P-tip
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 36mm)
Status: down for repair....
On Oct 18, 2011, at 10:19 AM, rtmarshall wrote:
> Hello KF Flyers, Food for thought? The EGT on our 80 HP Rotax
> goes up when you retard the throttle to 5000 rpm and it actually
> pegs the gauge.(west tach) If you run full power(at) 5350 rpm it stays
> at 1550 to 1575 degrees. It has a new probe, plugs are good, Carbs
> are stock jetting from the factory and needle jet I confirmed
> settings with Lockwood, and the BING manual, It really runs great
> except this issue. I do not want to cause a future problem. BTW the
> ship has done this from day one, I recently confirmed this with the
> builder. It has 310 Hrs. It has only one EGT probe and it is at the
> factory suggested location. Right rear exhaust. Anyone have any
> ideas. Thanks,
> Toodie & Bob Marshall
> Beckwourth, CA
> KF/4/1200 flying
> www.matronics.com/contribution _-
> === Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
========================>
|
| Quote: |
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
|
[b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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_________________
Keep the dirty side down/Blue skies. Bob |
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redrocketrider
Joined: 13 May 2011
Posts: 67
Location: Nervino airport
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:24 am Post subject: EGT question |
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BTW Clint: enjoyed your trip up the coast to SF Golden Gate bridge.... looked like a really nice flight...........thanks for sharing because, I use to fly gliders at Hummingbird Haven just east of the Livermore airport long ago. Started flying at Warm Springs (now gone) then up to Centerville (now gone)/Fremont and then out to Livermore (now gone) The glider guys now fly from Bryon and the Sierra's in summer. Never got over to Half Moon Bay, but Bob did when he was instructing out of Concord/Buchannan Airport. Appreciate the soft air...........not so in the Sierra's! Get's wild up here.... Toodie
[quote] From: rtmarshall (rtav8or2(at)psln.com)
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 10:34 AM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: EGT question
Hi Clint, I should have said the 5350 was in a climb configuration, the issue is not at full power but when I pull back on the throttle to go to cruise at 5000 RPM that the EGT goes up. It is a 80 HP four stroke Rotax. thanks for the help.
Toodie & Bob Marshall
Beckwourth, CA
KF/4/1200 flying
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 10:09 AM
| Quote: | To: Kitfox list (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: EGT question
Hi Bob,
It sounds to me like you may be over pitched on your prop. If you can only get 5350 with full power would indicate too much pitch. If you could check your MP, you would find it very high.
Clint
> From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net (lynnmatt(at)jps.net)
| Quote: | Subject: Re: EGT question
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 12:52:02 -0400
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Could the timing be retarded by any chance? A late timing setting
will allow fuel to be still burning as the exhaust valve.....oops! Is
this a two-stroke engine? Maybe the same laws apply? I have recently
discovered that my Jabiru engine will respond with much lower EGT's
when the timing is advanced, so a late timing should increase the
EGT's, I would think.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Prince prop 64 x 30, P-tip
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 36mm)
Status: down for repair....
On Oct 18, 2011, at 10:19 AM, rtmarshall wrote:
> Hello KF Flyers, Food for thought? The EGT on our 80 HP Rotax
> goes up when you retard the throttle to 5000 rpm and it actually
> pegs the gauge.(west tach) If you run full power(at) 5350 rpm it stays
> at 1550 to 1575 degrees. It has a new probe, plugs are good, Carbs
> are stock jetting from the factory and needle jet I confirmed
> settings with Lockwood, and the BING manual, It really runs great
> except this issue. I do not want to cause a future problem. BTW the
> ship has done this from day one, I recently confirmed this with the
> builder. It has 310 Hrs. It has only one EGT probe and it is at the
> factory suggested location. Right rear exhaust. Anyone have any
> ideas. Thanks,
> Toodie & Bob Marshall
> Beckwourth, CA
> KF/4/1200 flying
> www.matronics.com/contribution _-
> === Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
========================>
|
| Quote: |
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
|
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
|
[b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
_________________
Keep the dirty side down/Blue skies. Bob |
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kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:05 am Post subject: EGT question |
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| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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Roger Lee
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:05 pm Post subject: Re: EGT question |
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Two things are going on. First re-pitch your prop to get between 5500-5600. This will unload the engine and let it run a little cooler and it is less stress on the engine. Everyone with a 912 should run at least 5500 rpm WOT. Second the Rotax 912 series engine runs hotter down at lower rpms (4600-4900) and cooler at the higher rpm (i.e. 5100-5300). The 912 carbs run richer at the higher rpms and leaner in the mid range rpms.
So if you reduce the pitch to get over 5500 WOT and run at 5100-5200 in cruise you should see lower temps.
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056 |
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Paul A. Franz, P.E.
Joined: 02 Dec 2008
Posts: 280
Location: Bellevue WA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:08 am Post subject: EGT question |
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On Tue, October 18, 2011 10:34 am, rtmarshall wrote:
| Quote: | Hi Clint, I should have said the 5350 was in a climb configuration, the issue is not
at full power but when I pull back on the throttle to go to cruise at 5000 RPM that
the EGT goes up. It is a 80 HP four stroke Rotax. thanks for the help.
Toodie & Bob Marshall
Beckwourth, CA
KF/4/1200 flying
|
Bob - I think Clint meant you'd have the problem at full throttle too if you have too
much pitch angle.
| Quote: |
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 10:09 AM
To: Kitfox list
Subject: RE: EGT question
Hi Bob,
It sounds to me like you may be over pitched on your prop. If you can only get 5350
with full power would indicate too much pitch. If you could check your MP, you
would find it very high.
Clint
> From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net
> Subject: Re: EGT question
> Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 12:52:02 -0400
> To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
>
> Could the timing be retarded by any chance? A late timing setting
> will allow fuel to be still burning as the exhaust valve.....oops! Is
> this a two-stroke engine? Maybe the same laws apply? I have recently
> discovered that my Jabiru engine will respond with much lower EGT's
> when the timing is advanced, so a late timing should increase the
> EGT's, I would think.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062
> Prince prop 64 x 30, P-tip
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 36mm)
> Status: down for repair....
>
>
> On Oct 18, 2011, at 10:19 AM, rtmarshall wrote:
>
> > Hello KF Flyers, Food for thought? The EGT on our 80 HP Rotax
> > goes up when you retard the throttle to 5000 rpm and it actually
> > pegs the gauge.(west tach) If you run full power(at) 5350 rpm it stays
> > at 1550 to 1575 degrees. It has a new probe, plugs are good, Carbs
> > are stock jetting from the factory and needle jet I confirmed
> > settings with Lockwood, and the BING manual, It really runs great
> > except this issue. I do not want to cause a future problem. BTW the
> > ship has done this from day one, I recently confirmed this with the
> > builder. It has 310 Hrs. It has only one EGT probe and it is at the
> > factory suggested location. Right rear exhaust. Anyone have any
> > ideas. Thanks,
> > Toodie & Bob Marshall
> > Beckwourth, CA
> > KF/4/1200 flying
> > === Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
>========================>
>
>
|
--
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
PAF Consulting Engineers
Office 425.440.9505
Cell 425.241.1618
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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_________________
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
425.440.9505 Office |
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Roger Lee
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:56 am Post subject: Re: EGT question |
|
|
If you have too much pitch then all temps tend to be higher at take off and cruise. Many have resolved their temp issues with just a prop re-pitch.
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056 |
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redrocketrider
Joined: 13 May 2011
Posts: 67
Location: Nervino airport
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:24 am Post subject: EGT question |
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Thanks to all for the suggestions, Will try them.
Toodie & Bob Marshall
Beckwourth, CA
KF/4/1200 flying
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 6:56 AM
To: <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: EGT question
If you have too much pitch then all temps tend to be higher at take off and
cruise. Many have resolved their temp issues with just a prop re-pitch.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center - Heavy Maint. Rated
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355509#355509
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_________________
Keep the dirty side down/Blue skies. Bob |
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