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rcav8r(at)charter.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:57 am Post subject: Autocad DWG Files

Speaking as a machinist:

You might find it impractical to try to cut sheet metal on a mill type setup. Your biggest problem is work hold down, es. a 4x12 sheet. Even if you use a reverse spiral bit so it doesn't pull the sheet up, you'll still have tremendous vibration of the sheet if you don't have some kind of hold down along the path of the cut. 



A better way to go would be to come up with some sort of CNC punch head for it, punch the the rivet and screw holes, then us them as some system to clamp the sheet metal down while you mill the part out.



all of this however, is probably gilding the lilly. IIRC from my 701 plans (don't have them anymore, and don't have 750 plans at this time), most of the sheet parts besides the ribs are straight cut, and could be cut on a shear. 

 The ribs could be cut with a waterjet ($$$) if you have the CAD files. With all the time and money involved, I'd rather spend the money on sub kits from Zenith. 



I know this is not what you were asking, but you are going through a lot of trouble for very little return. 



---- stepinwolf <robert.pelland(at)cgocable.ca> wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I am a 701 & 750 scratch builder, and in order to make things more interesting for my 750 build, I am planing, among other things, to build a CNC machine in the coming year. The " MechMate " unit ( check out the following site )  http://www.mechmate.com/ will be built with a 5' x 12' table, so that complete 12' aluminum sheets can be process by the machine.

 

 My question to fellow Matronics List members is this. Does anyone have, or have access to Autocad DWG files for the 750, that they would be willing to share.?  I am quite aware that I can spend my time drawing them myself, however my time would be better spent assembling, and flying, then by spending weeks in front of the keyboard, drawing DWG files that have already been done by someone else.

 

 If I were to get help in obtaining the necessary 750, or even the 701's files for that matter, cutting out assorted parts for a fellow builder's would not be out of question.

 

 A big thank you, to all those of you, who will take the time to address my concerns.

 

 Robert 

 the 701&750 scratch.

 

 www.autoretro.info

 

 --------

 Live each day, as if it was your last

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 81889#281889

blackmore(at)platinum.ca
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:30 am Post subject: Autocad DWG Files

May be you are right ....I have been told this before, just had to ask!

 Chris 

  

 [i]----

stepinwolf

Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 133
Location: Canada

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:46 am Post subject: Autocad DWG Files

Thank's for your input, rcav8r, 

  

 but things are not always as they seem.  For  starters, the CNC " Mechmate " once built, will also be used as an additional  revenue source for me, doing sub-work for local customers cutting thin, assorted metal sheets and wood products.

  

 As for the hold down problem you might think I will  have, it's actually non existent since the Mechmate has a complete vacuum system  installed under the table, and there are presently quite a few members on the  Mechmate forum, who are actually using the very same system I plan on having,  and are working with 12' aluminum sheets with no problem what so ever.  If  in doubt, I can link you to a few who do this regularly on aluminum sheets from  .016, all the way up to 1/2" thick.

  

 In as much as a shear is concerned, if you take a close  look at the plans, even though there are quite a few parts made up of straight  lines, few parts could be made using a regular shear, and I think a shear  wide enough to be useful, would not be costs effective.

  

 Thank you for your concerns

  

 regards

 Robert

  

  

 [quote]   ---

_________________
Long wing + vga's, = lo & slo

YRD

Joined: 21 Apr 2009
Posts: 1

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:32 am Post subject: Autocad DWG Files

Robert,



I also do not have the CAD and would be happy if you share when you obtain it. 

 

As for MM, yes it is possible and feasible. 



 http://www.mechmate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=963



 

Best regards, 

Yuri - Brazil

 





2010/1/17 Robert Pelland <robert.pelland(at)cgocable.ca (robert.pelland(at)cgocable.ca)>

[quote]        Thank's for your input, rcav8r, 

 Â 

 but things are not always as they seem.Â  For  starters, the CNC " Mechmate " once built, will also be used as an additional  revenue source for me, doing sub-work for local customersÂ cutting thin, assorted metal sheets and wood products.

 Â 

 As for the hold down problem you might think I will  have, it's actually non existent since the Mechmate has a complete vacuum system  installed under the table, and there are presently quite a few members on the  Mechmate forum, who are actually using the very same system I plan on having,  and are working with 12' aluminum sheets with no problem what so ever.Â  If  in doubt, I can link you to a few who do this regularly on aluminum sheets from  .016, all the way up to 1/2" thick.

 Â 

 In as much as a shear is concerned, if you take a close  look at the plans, even though there are quite a few parts made up of straight  lines, few parts could beÂ made using a regular shear, and I think a shear  wide enough to be useful, would not be costs effective.

 Â 

 Thank you for your concerns

 Â 

 regards

 Robert

 Â 

 Â 

 [quote]   ---

rcav8r(at)charter.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 1:05 pm Post subject: Autocad DWG Files

Oh, ok! I didnt know the system had a vac table! I take back what I said about the setup 



As for the shear, which parts could not be cut on a 8' shear? I have access to one, so that's "standard" for me. I think the biggest challange for any metal wing project is bending the spar flanges, if they have them.

I will check out the links. There's been many the time when I wished for a CNC setup at home instead of doing "government" projects at work.



On Jan 17, 2010, at 12:45 PM, "Robert Pelland" <robert.pelland(at)cgocable.ca (robert.pelland(at)cgocable.ca)> wrote:



[quote]  Thank's for your input, rcav8r, 

  

 but things are not always as they seem.  For  starters, the CNC " Mechmate " once built, will also be used as an additional  revenue source for me, doing sub-work for local customers cutting thin, assorted metal sheets and wood products.

  

 As for the hold down problem you might think I will  have, it's actually non existent since the Mechmate has a complete vacuum system  installed under the table, and there are presently quite a few members on the  Mechmate forum, who are actually using the very same system I plan on having,  and are working with 12' aluminum sheets with no problem what so ever.  If  in doubt, I can link you to a few who do this regularly on aluminum sheets from  .016, all the way up to 1/2" thick.

  

 In as much as a shear is concerned, if you take a close  look at the plans, even though there are quite a few parts made up of straight  lines, few parts could be made using a regular shear, and I think a shear  wide enough to be useful, would not be costs effective.

  

 Thank you for your concerns

  

 regards

 Robert

  

  

 [quote]   ---

stepinwolf

Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 133
Location: Canada

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:01 pm Post subject: Autocad DWG Files

For starters, before we exchange any other messages, I would like to know  whom I am talking.

  

 As for what parts that could not be sheared on your 8' shear, well the list  ( if I had time to make one up ) would certainly include the main, and rear  spars in the wings, then all the fuselage covering, sides, top, bottom, ad to  that all the major aluminum coverings on the main wings, and there would  surly be more if I had time to go over the plans.  

  

 You are fortunate to have access to an 8' shear, but have you taken the  time source pricing an 8' wide shear.  I have just purchased an 8'  Brown & Borg brake, and pricing on the shears was more expensive then  the brake itself.

  

 As for the biggest challenge, it doesn't reside ( as you imply ) in bending  the spars flanges, since those are relivately easy with a decent brake, but  rather forming the flanges on the complete set of front and rear ribs, that is  where the real labor is !

  

 But hey!   there has be work involved somewhere in the  construction, else wise everyone would be building airplanes

  

 regards

 Robert

  

  

  

 [quote]   ---

_________________
Long wing + vga's, = lo & slo

rcav8r(at)charter.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 5:02 pm Post subject: Autocad DWG Files

Well, My name is John Thompson, and I live in WI. Several years ago, I was interested in building the 701, even bought a bunch of material, but just couldn't get used to the low gross wieght even with the 4th gen drawings. 

Right now, I'm working on a Bearhawk. You can buy various levels of kits including a quick build. I bought a wing parts kit for this (ribs and spars mainly).One of the most frequent questions for this plane is "can I build my own 8' brake out of xxxx". The answer is usually no, since nobody can seem to figure out how to keep the spar straight in a wood brake (most common idea), but it sounds like someone on this list has done it. There are plans for a 8' steel brake out there, weights about 600# when finished. Might make a good chapter project. 

I initially had my ribs waterjetted after I made my own CAD ribs (both work bennies), but later decided to just get the wing parts kit I mentioned above simply because of the hassle of finding a place to bend the spars. 

I don't recall how the 701 series fuse sides and wing skins are sized, so you've got me on those. I'd probably just cut them by hand with snips or power sheer. 

No denying forming the ribs is hard, simply labor intensive. I seem to recall that the 701 rib form blocks needed a 8 degree reverse on them to keep the flanges 90 degrees to the rib itself? And a L & R form block are needed. Is the 750 similiar in that rgard?



---- Robert Pelland <robert.pelland(at)cgocable.ca> wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		   For starters, before we exchange any other messages, I would like to know whom I am talking.

 

 As for what parts that could not be sheared on your 8' shear, well the list ( if I had time to make one up ) would certainly include the main, and rear spars in the wings, then all the fuselage covering, sides, top, bottom, ad to that all the major aluminum coverings on the main wings, and there would surly be more if I had time to go over the plans.  

 

 You are fortunate to have access to an 8' shear, but have you taken the time source pricing an 8' wide shear.  I have just purchased an 8' Brown & Borg brake, and pricing on the shears was more expensive then the brake itself.

 

 As for the biggest challenge, it doesn't reside ( as you imply ) in bending the spars flanges, since those are relivately easy with a decent brake, but rather forming the flanges on the complete set of front and rear ribs, that is where the real labor is !

 

 But hey!   there has be work involved somewhere in the construction, else wise everyone would be building airplanes

 

 regards

 Robert

stepinwolf

Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 133
Location: Canada

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:11 pm Post subject: Re: Autocad DWG Files

Please to make your acquaintance John, I live in Three Rivers, Quebec, just North of the US border, about two hours drive, from Champlain New York. 



Personally I did not decide to go with the 701 or 750 for the gross weight, the load carrying or the STOL capacity, but rather because they are all aluminum aircraft, and by the same token, easy to build, and easy to repair.  The fact that they can be left outside without any protection were not initially part of my decision.



The Zenith factory, now offer both aircraft in kit form, and also in partial component kits, ( as your Bearcat ) so that the builder can , as we say pay as they build. In my case, being retired, and trying to make ends meet on a small disability pension, did not permit me to purchase anything in kit form, so I was obliged to purchase raw material, and make up all the cutting, and forming block's.  It goes without saying that this part of the build, was extremely time consuming, and the principal reason I decided to build the Mechmate.



As far as brakes are concerned, I originally built the 4' brake from the plans that are found on the CanZac website, ( see attached pic ) but I quickly realized that nothing but an 8' would be acceptable for the projects. The best brake project I have seen on the various Forums, is the brake offered by Mac's Machine and Design http://www.macsmachine.com/ he will sell you the plans ( right up your alley since one needs to have access to a machine shop to fab all the parts) and when your through, if you send him a photo of the completed project, he will refund your money.  A win win situation.



Both Zenith main spars, don't need to be bent, since they are capped with extruded aluminum angle. As for the front and rear ribs, both the 701 and 750 are very similar, not enough to use the same forming block's,  but very close.  In my case to speed things up, I rough cut the blanks with my plasma cutter, then run them through a router for the final cut.  Then the fun starts with the forming block's and hammer giving them the proper, 9 degree bend back angle.



All the the fuselage sections for both aircraft are cut from full length 12' sheets, so no shear is not going to cut it. Good luck with your project



regards

Robert

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_________________
Long wing + vga's, = lo & slo

joemotis(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:10 pm Post subject: Autocad DWG Files

Hi all,

  

 I am building a 750 from plans.

 A $ .99 clear plastic ruler, a good compass with a fine line sharpie ty wrapped to it instead of the pencil, a couple  of squares and a tape measure will layout this entire airplane. Lightening holes are easy with holesaws either in the drillpress or in a cordless drill. I started with the wings and cut all the blanks for the nose and rear ribs with an electric hand held shear and a pair of 12" Andy snips.The ribs were formed with a deadblow hammer over plywood forms. I have started using oak now, much more durable. The form blocks were all cut out on my cheapo 14" bandsaw.  Most all of the other fitments for the wings has been cut out on a cheap bandsaw with a 14 tpi blade or with snips.A woodcuuting bandsaw sings through .25 6061 like butter A 12' disc sander and Harbor freight sanding drums in the drill press clean up all the saw marks quickly.  The wing spars which are made fromm 6061 T6 and were cut with a straitedge and a Olfa linoleum cutter in less than an hour. The spar flanges are 1" x 1" x .125 6061 T6 extrusion so no bending required..As for bending flanges on your sheet metal, the cheap 18" and 30 " brakes from Harbor freight work fine and do a great deal of the work required. They cost about $40 bucks each. I am building "Dave's sheet metal brake"" now out of angle iron and piano hinge and it will bend the channels and other larger sheet metal parts with  no problem. Most all of the fuselage sheet and wing skins can be roughed out with a cheap electric or pneumatic shear and the fine line left to trim is no work at all with a 12" pair of Andy snips.

  My point is that simple tools will take you a long way down the road in the construction of this airplane.

  

 Joe Motis 

  

 plans built CH 750

  

 NO ARCHIVE

 On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 2:00 PM, Robert Pelland <robert.pelland(at)cgocable.ca (robert.pelland(at)cgocable.ca)> wrote:

 [quote]  For starters, before we exchange any other messages, I would like to know whom I am talking.

  

 As for what parts that could not be sheared on your 8' shear, well the list ( if I had time to make one up ) would certainly include the main, and rear spars in the wings, then all the fuselage covering, sides, top, bottom, ad to that all the major aluminum coverings on the main wings, and there would surly be more if I had time to go over the plans.  

   

 You are fortunate to have access to an 8' shear, but have you taken the time source pricing an 8' wide shear.  I have just purchased an 8' Brown & Borg brake, and pricing on the shears was more expensive then the brake itself.

   

 As for the biggest challenge, it doesn't reside ( as you imply ) in bending the spars flanges, since those are relivately easy with a decent brake, but rather forming the flanges on the complete set of front and rear ribs, that is where the real labor is !

   

 But hey!   there has be work involved somewhere in the construction, else wise everyone would be building airplanes

  

 regards

 Robert

  

  

  

 [quote]  ---

klondike(at)megalink.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:13 am Post subject: Autocad DWG Files

Gee Joe, with I few minor changes I could have given the same reply.------  I think we are the type of people which Chris had in mind when he designs his  airplanes for the scratch builder.  I used these simple techinques on the  701 and 601, now doing the 750.

  

 Best of luck,

 Fritz

 [quote]   ---

rcav8r(at)charter.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:12 am Post subject: Autocad DWG Files

That Macsmachine website brake is the one I was referring to also. I also have the parts for the 4' brake you mentioned, but I never put it together (yet). 



When I had the 701 plans, I was looking at potential LSA plane. The rules weren't final at the time, and everyone was thinking it would be 1200# gross. 



Flash forward to today, although my project is a Bearhawk, I am keeping an eye out on LSA's again, "just in case". I have some requirements though: must be able to be scratch built, have side by side seating, high wing, tube and fabric fuselage, and be actually designed around the LSA rules (not just a beefed up smaller design). The 750 is the best compromise of these (probably the ONLY compromise). It doesn't have the tube and fabric fuse, and not really designed around LSA (but it actually has a practical useful load for 2 people and some baggage). 



If I actually do a 750, I will remove the leading edge strakes, and probably modify the nose ribs as some people have done with the 701 and doing with the 750. I don't really need the ultra STOL capabilities. 



---- stepinwolf <robert.pelland(at)cgocable.ca> wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Please to make your acquaintance John, I live in Three Rivers, Quebec, just North of the US border, about two hours drive, from Champlain New York. 

 

 Personally I did not decide to go with the 701 or 750 for the gross weight, the load carrying or the STOL capacity, but rather because they are all aluminum aircraft, and by the same token, easy to build, and easy to repair.  The fact that they can be left outside without any protection were not initially part of my decision.

JohnDempsey

Joined: 01 Nov 2011
Posts: 1

Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:07 am Post subject: Re: Autocad DWG Files

For restore dwg files try recover dwg. The program works under any Windows OS. The utility restores .dwg files after hdd failures, malicious software. The utility uses high end ways of restoring autocad data.

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