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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2882
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 Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:24 pm Post subject: Why you don't just strap the stick back... |
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After Sun-N-Fun, I read some things about proper methods of
tying down that made some real sense. Later, I also wrote
some things too, to pass along the word.
One disturbing thing I see at OSH and other places when I
see RV's tied down, is that many builders simply strap their
stick back with the seatbelt to secure the stick, locking
the ailerons and elevators.
Here's a video that shows exactly why that's a dumb idea.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-wjtP90d_g
If the above link doesn't work, go to youtube and search for
"Accidental VTOL Takeoff" posted by "MessedUpShet".
On my site, I show my rudder gust lock, with a strap
that holds the stick in the neutral position (both
axis) when I use the seat belt to pull the stick back.
That should help prevent such a thing to some degree.
Another thing that can cause you problems is having the
flaps left down. If you have problems keeping people
from stepping on your flaps, then great, put them down
when boarding and disembarking the plane. But, once
you're ready to leave the plane, put them up, because
in a wind storm, the flaps will work as designed...
They'll create extra drag, to allow the wind to push
your plane harder against it's tiedowns, and by trapping
the air under the wing it can add more lift.
Just some common sense things to pass along regarding
tying down...but the video was a real eye opener for me.
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
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philperry9(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:38 pm Post subject: Why you don't just strap the stick back... |
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Agreed. I always thought that was a dumb idea.
I used to get in the sim and set the wind speed dead on the nose at a steady couple of knots above stalling speed.
Back on the stick and you're up.
Back further on the stick and you're up and going backwards.
Then forward on the stick and you're decending and picking up enough speed to creep forward to your original takeoff point.
Fun exercise in the sim. I don't think it would be nearly as much fun with the turbulence and unpredictable winds in real life.
Phil
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 6:20 PM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)> wrote:
[quote] --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)>
After Sun-N-Fun, I read some things about proper methods of
tying down that made some real sense. Later, I also wrote
some things too, to pass along the word.
One disturbing thing I see at OSH and other places when I
see RV's tied down, is that many builders simply strap their
stick back with the seatbelt to secure the stick, locking
the ailerons and elevators.
Here's a video that shows exactly why that's a dumb idea.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-wjtP90d_g
If the above link doesn't work, go to youtube and search for
"Accidental VTOL Takeoff" posted by "MessedUpShet".
On my site, I show my rudder gust lock, with a strap
that holds the stick in the neutral position (both
axis) when I use the seat belt to pull the stick back.
That should help prevent such a thing to some degree.
Another thing that can cause you problems is having the
flaps left down. If you have problems keeping people
from stepping on your flaps, then great, put them down
when boarding and disembarking the plane. But, once
you're ready to leave the plane, put them up, because
in a wind storm, the flaps will work as designed...
They'll create extra drag, to allow the wind to push
your plane harder against it's tiedowns, and by trapping
the air under the wing it can add more lift.
Just some common sense things to pass along regarding
tying down...but the video was a real eye opener for me.
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
====================================
om" target="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
le, List Admin.
====================================
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
====================================
http://forums.matronics.com
====================================
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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[b]
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orchidman
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 277
Location: Oklahoma City - KRCE
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:17 pm Post subject: Re: Why you don't just strap the stick back... |
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Tim,
Do you have a quick link to your page.
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Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2882
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:04 pm Post subject: Why you don't just strap the stick back... |
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There are better resources out there than me but here is my gust lock.
http://www.myrv10.com/tips/accessories/control_locks/index.html
And here is a tiedown write up that had the tiedown tips at the bottom.
http://www.myrv10.com/tips/accessories/tiedowns/index.html
Tim
On Nov 17, 2011, at 9:17 PM, "orchidman" <gary(at)wingscc.com> wrote:
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larkrv10(at)yahoo.ca
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 8:30 pm Post subject: Why you don't just strap the stick back... |
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Phil, I remember the flight instructor I did most of my primary training with (some 34 years ago) was able to hover a C-150. In a very strong steady wind, he would use just the right amount of throttle, and could keep the aircraft off the ground about 2-3 feet. Can't say I have ever tried it myself, nor do I think I could. I can't imagine what an insurance company today would have to say about a stunt like that.
Rick
#40956
Southampton, Ont
--- On Fri, 11/18/11, Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Why you don't just strap the stick back...
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Received: Friday, November 18, 2011, 12:36 AM
Agreed. I always thought that was a dumb idea.
I used to get in the sim and set the wind speed dead on the nose at a steady couple of knots above stalling speed.
Back on the stick and you're up.
Back further on the stick and you're up and going backwards.
Then forward on the stick and you're decending and picking up enough speed to creep forward to your original takeoff point.
Fun exercise in the sim. I don't think it would be nearly as much fun with the turbulence and unpredictable winds in real life.
Phil
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 6:20 PM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)>
After Sun-N-Fun, I read some things about proper methods of
tying down that made some real sense. Later, I also wrote
some things too, to pass along the word.
One disturbing thing I see at OSH and other places when I
see RV's tied down, is that many builders simply strap their
stick back with the seatbelt to secure the stick, locking
the ailerons and elevators.
Here's a video that shows exactly why that's a dumb idea.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-wjtP90d_g
If the above link doesn't work, go to youtube and search for
"Accidental VTOL Takeoff" posted by "MessedUpShet".
On my site, I show my rudder gust lock, with a strap
that holds the stick in the neutral position (both
axis) when I use the seat belt to pull the stick back.
That should help prevent such a thing to some degree.
Another thing that can cause you problems is having the
flaps left down. If you have problems keeping people
from stepping on your flaps, then great, put them down
when boarding and disembarking the plane. But, once
you're ready to leave the plane, put them up, because
in a wind storm, the flaps will work as designed...
They'll create extra drag, to allow the wind to push
your plane harder against it's tiedowns, and by trapping
the air under the wing it can add more lift.
Just some common sense things to pass along regarding
tying down...but the video was a real eye opener for me.
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
===========
om" target="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
le, List Admin.
====================================
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
====================================
http://forums.matronics.com
====================================
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
====================================
ollow target=_blank>www.aeroelectric.com
/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
ofollow target=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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[quote][b]
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pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 8:48 pm Post subject: Why you don't just strap the stick back... |
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Take another look at that video. Any large wind would just roll the plane back, not make it fly. I think this video is in the same class as the 'missing wing' video .... both are model airplanes. Doesn't look like an N# on the fuselage side either.
Linn
On 11/19/2011 11:26 PM, Rick Lark wrote: [quote] Phil, I remember the flight instructor I did most of my primary training with (some 34 years ago) was able to hover a C-150. In a very strong steady wind, he would use just the right amount of throttle, and could keep the aircraft off the ground about 2-3 feet. Can't say I have ever tried it myself, nor do I think I could. I can't imagine what an insurance company today would have to say about a stunt like that.
Rick
#40956
Southampton, Ont
--- On Fri, 11/18/11, Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com> (philperry9(at)gmail.com) wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com> (philperry9(at)gmail.com)
Subject: Re: Why you don't just strap the stick back...
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Received: Friday, November 18, 2011, 12:36 AM
Agreed. I always thought that was a dumb idea.
I used to get in the sim and set the wind speed dead on the nose at a steady couple of knots above stalling speed.
Back on the stick and you're up.
Back further on the stick and you're up and going backwards.
Then forward on the stick and you're decending and picking up enough speed to creep forward to your original takeoff point.
Fun exercise in the sim. I don't think it would be nearly as much fun with the turbulence and unpredictable winds in real life.
Phil
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 6:20 PM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)>
After Sun-N-Fun, I read some things about proper methods of
tying down that made some real sense. Later, I also wrote
some things too, to pass along the word.
One disturbing thing I see at OSH and other places when I
see RV's tied down, is that many builders simply strap their
stick back with the seatbelt to secure the stick, locking
the ailerons and elevators.
Here's a video that shows exactly why that's a dumb idea.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-wjtP90d_g
If the above link doesn't work, go to youtube and search for
"Accidental VTOL Takeoff" posted by "MessedUpShet".
On my site, I show my rudder gust lock, with a strap
that holds the stick in the neutral position (both
axis) when I use the seat belt to pull the stick back.
That should help prevent such a thing to some degree.
Another thing that can cause you problems is having the
flaps left down. If you have problems keeping people
from stepping on your flaps, then great, put them down
when boarding and disembarking the plane. But, once
you're ready to leave the plane, put them up, because
in a wind storm, the flaps will work as designed...
They'll create extra drag, to allow the wind to push
your plane harder against it's tiedowns, and by trapping
the air under the wing it can add more lift.
Just some common sense things to pass along regarding
tying down...but the video was a real eye opener for me.
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
===========
om" target="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
le, List Admin.
====================================
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
====================================
http://forums.matronics.com
====================================
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
====================================
ollow target=_blank>www.aeroelectric.com
/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
ofollow target=_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
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[b]
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2882
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| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 9:39 pm Post subject: Why you don't just strap the stick back... |
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It's from Russia. I originally found it from Flying Magazine.
Regarding the "stunt" with the instructor....I don't really think it's a huge risky endeavor. After all, your ground speed is minimal, so really other than gusts it shouldn't be a big danger. I've landed in 30+kt steady winds and it is fine if it's not too much of a crosswind or gusty...just feels slow
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larkrv10(at)yahoo.ca
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:59 pm Post subject: Why you don't just strap the stick back... |
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Tim, you are probably right, the hovering was not a huge risk. None the less, I have never attempted it myself. Thinking back, that same instructor used to have me practise precautionary approaches into farmer's field's and we would let the main wheels touch down, and bouncy a bit before we'd lift off again. I guess in a way it was good experience for me. Never have had to actually need that experience though. I wonder if that instructor was a bit of a "cowboy"?
Rck
Do not archive
--- On Sun, 11/20/11, Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com>
Subject: Re: Why you don't just strap the stick back...
To: "rv10-list(at)matronics.com" <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
Received: Sunday, November 20, 2011, 5:36 AM
It's from Russia. I originally found it from Flying Magazine.
Regarding the "stunt" with the instructor....I don't really think it's a huge risky endeavor. After all, your ground speed is minimal, so really other than gusts it shouldn't be a big danger. I've landed in 30+kt steady winds and it is fine if it's not too much of a crosswind or gusty...just feels slow.
Now that said, I think the dangerous part would be the taxi back to the hangar....so I don't think I'll ever hover the RV10....I'd rather not fly in winds with 50+ kts on the ground. If I could take off and land in 20kts and hover at some other airport at 20ft (at) 50kts, sure, I'd love to give that a go. It's just a river of moving air, and airplanes only know airspeed.....same as flying with 70kt tailwinds doesn't make the airplane different. I've had some great trip times with high tailwinds. (and flew the rv10 like a cessna with 50+ kt headwinds.
Tim
On Nov 19, 2011, at 10:44 PM, Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net (pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | Take another look at that video. Any large wind would just roll the plane back, not make it fly. I think this video is in the same class as the 'missing wing' video .... both are model airplanes. Doesn't look like an N# on the fuselage side either.
Linn
On 11/19/2011 11:26 PM, Rick Lark wrote: | Quote: | Phil, I remember the flight instructor I did most of my primary training with (some 34 years ago) was able to hover a C-150. In a very strong steady wind, he would use just the right amount of throttle, and could keep the aircraft off the ground about 2-3 feet. Can't say I have ever tried it myself, nor do I think I could. I can't imagine what an insurance company today would have to say about a stunt like that.
Rick
#40956
Southampton, Ont
--- On Fri, 11/18/11, Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com (philperry9(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com (philperry9(at)gmail.com)>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Why you don't just strap the stick back...
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Received: Friday, November 18, 2011, 12:36 AM
Agreed. I always thought that was a dumb idea.
I used to get in the sim and set the wind speed dead on the nose at a steady couple of knots above stalling speed.
Back on the stick and you're up.
Back further on the stick and you're up and going backwards.
Then forward on the stick and you're decending and picking up enough speed to creep forward to your original takeoff point.
Fun exercise in the sim. I don't think it would be nearly as much fun with the turbulence and unpredictable winds in real life.
Phil
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 6:20 PM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)>
After Sun-N-Fun, I read some things about proper methods of
tying down that made some real sense. Later, I also wrote
some things too, to pass along the word.
One disturbing thing I see at OSH and other places when I
see RV's tied down, is that many builders simply strap their
stick back with the seatbelt to secure the stick, locking
the ailerons and elevators.
Here's a video that shows exactly why that's a dumb idea.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-wjtP90d_g
If the above link doesn't work, go to youtube and search for
"Accidental VTOL Takeoff" posted by "MessedUpShet".
On my site, I show my rudder gust lock, with a strap
that holds the stick in the neutral position (both
axis) when I use the seat belt to pull the stick back.
That should help prevent such a thing to some degree.
Another thing that can cause you problems is having the
flaps left down. If you have problems keeping people
from stepping on your flaps, then great, put them down
when boarding and disembarking the plane. But, once
you're ready to leave the plane, put them up, because
in a wind storm, the flaps will work as designed...
They'll create extra drag, to allow the wind to push
your plane harder against it's tiedowns, and by trapping
the air under the wing it can add more lift.
Just some common sense things to pass along regarding
tying down...but the video was a real eye opener for me.
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
===========
om" target="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
le, List Admin.
===========
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
===========
http://forums.matronics.com
====================================
le, List Admin.
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====================================
ollow target=_blank>www.aeroelectric.com
/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
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rv10flyer
Joined: 25 Aug 2009
Posts: 364
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:58 am Post subject: Re: Why you don't just strap the stick back... |
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It does not matter what position your flaps and elevator are in if your plane is not securely tied to Earth like that one appears.
I will strap my flight controls to prevent damage to them, not to keep the plane from flying on its own. I understand that control position will affect the pull on the ropes/anchors.
If I am aware of 30+ kt winds forecasted, I hope I can hangar it or fly it out in time. If not then I will try to have full fuel, max baggage in front floor area and flaps up. Check wx often when our babies are parked outside.
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coop85(at)verizon.net
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:48 am Post subject: Why you don't just strap the stick back... |
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I agree that a properly tied down aircraft is not going to be able to rotate and thus gain lift regardless of the wind, and this practice is seen far and wide in both experimental and certified aircraft. I found it a bit surprising that there were such strong feelings about how "dumb" this technique was and yet laud the idea of hovering at 2-20 feet in strong winds. I would offer that there is no such thing as a guaranteed strong "steady" wind and a sudden decrease while hovering a little above stall speed at these altitudes would result in a day far more exciting than desired as you are falling nose low into the concrete. I knew a guy while I was in high school that was generous enough to let my fly his C-150. He started hotdogging takeoffs (unbeknownst to me) and would build up some speed then zoom up and then push over as the plane got slow (not much of a zoom in a 150). After he happened across a slight windshear going up one day the plane stalled and he fell sideways into a parked row of airplanes. He walked away, but my free airplane was no longer available. Don't get me wrong, I'm all about doing fun things with the appropriate airplane and conditions, I like to watch a J-3 stop in a matter of feet after landing on a day with a little wind, and for 20 years I was paid to fly anything BUT straight and level so I'll do anything in a airplane right up to the "stupid is as stupid does" point. Just my opinion of course, but I was a little amazed at the combination of ideas and emotions in this thread.
Have a Happy Thanksgiving!
Marcus
do not archive
On Nov 21, 2011, at 9:58 AM, rv10flyer wrote:
It does not matter what position your flaps and elevator are in if your plane is not securely tied to Earth like that one appears.
I will strap my flight controls to prevent damage to them, not to keep the plane from flying on its own. I understand that control position will affect the pull on the ropes/anchors.
If I am aware of 30+ kt winds forecasted, I hope I can hangar it or fly it out in time. If not then I will try to have full fuel, max baggage in front floor area and flaps up. Check wx often when our babies are parked outside.
--------
Wayne Gillispie, A&P 5/93, PPC 10/08
Bldr# 40983SB Final assembly, aw cert, transition training with David Maib.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358622#358622
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larkrv10(at)yahoo.ca
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:28 am Post subject: Why you don't just strap the stick back... |
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Hey all, sorry if I upset anyone with my musings. Like I said, I've never attempted these stunts myself and have managed in 34 years to have never put a small dent in any aluminum. Hopefully I can keep it that way when I get my -10 completed......Rick
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--- On Mon, 11/21/11, Marcus Cooper <coop85(at)verizon.net> wrote:
| Quote: | From: Marcus Cooper <coop85(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Why you don't just strap the stick back...
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Received: Monday, November 21, 2011, 3:45 PM
Marcus Cooper <coop85(at)verizon.net>
I agree that a properly tied down aircraft is not going to
be able to rotate and thus gain lift regardless of the wind,
and this practice is seen far and wide in both experimental
and certified aircraft. I found it a bit surprising
that there were such strong feelings about how "dumb" this
technique was and yet laud the idea of hovering at 2-20 feet
in strong winds. I would offer that there is no such
thing as a guaranteed strong "steady" wind and a sudden
decrease while hovering a little above stall speed at these
altitudes would result in a day far more exciting than
desired as you are falling nose low into the concrete.
I knew a guy while I was in high school that was generous
enough to let my fly his C-150. He started hotdogging
takeoffs (unbeknownst to me) and would build up some speed
then zoom up and then push over as the plane got slow (not
much of a zoom in a 150). After he happened across a
slight windshear going up one day the plane stalled and he
fell sidewa!
ys into a parked row of airplanes. He walked away,
but my free airplane was no longer available. Don't
get me wrong, I'm all about doing fun things with the
appropriate airplane and conditions, I like to watch a J-3
stop in a matter of feet after landing on a day with a
little wind, and for 20 years I was paid to fly anything BUT
straight and level so I'll do anything in a airplane right
up to the "stupid is as stupid does" point.
Just my opinion of course, but I was a little amazed
at the combination of ideas and emotions in this thread.
Have a Happy Thanksgiving!
Marcus
do not archive
On Nov 21, 2011, at 9:58 AM, rv10flyer wrote:
It does not matter what position your flaps and elevator
are in if your plane is not securely tied to Earth like that
one appears.
I will strap my flight controls to prevent damage to them,
not to keep the plane from flying on its own. I understand
that control position will affect the pull on the
ropes/anchors.
If I am aware of 30+ kt winds forecasted, I hope I can
hangar it or fly it out in time. If not then I will try to
have full fuel, max baggage in front floor area and
flaps up. Check wx often when our babies are parked
outside.
--------
Wayne Gillispie, A&P 5/93, PPC 10/08
Bldr# 40983SB Final assembly, aw cert, transition training
with David Maib.
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robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:37 am Post subject: Why you don't just strap the stick back... |
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Rick,
Maybe your uneventful flying the last third of a century is a partial testament to his training method. At this point I would not belabor his qualifications. Techniques change, we don’t do things the same way we once did in a number of areas, why should flight instruction be any different. I much prefer an instructor that makes sure you can "fly the plane" before he signs you off vs. an uninvolved instructor that does the bare minimum. I have a friend that received his certification after being trained by 3 different instructors over the course of ~125 hours of dual! He didn’t even have basic Comm techniques and was what I considered to be an unsafe pilot because there seemed to be no method to his training even after all those hours. I insisted we fly together for probably another 15 hours just to force him into the use systems that added consistency to his flying technique. It was hard to break him of those bad habits. Ultimately finances forced him out of flying which is likely a good thing for all concerned.
I would probably prefer your cowboy over most of the instructors currently training on my field right now.
Slightly off topic… I was selling a beautiful Turbo Lance II with a near zero time engine & turbo, club seating for 6 etc… A successful young business man in my town wanted to buy it. He was a 200 hour pilot talking about taking his family and a friends family places. While it was an easy sale I found another buyer with lots of experience in make & model. The original buyer was pissed but I did not want to be the guy that sold this nice young family an aircraft that wiped out two local families. It was so obvious to me that he could get over his head in short order and there would be another local tragedy. Please note I am not "that guy" that has to sell his RV engine separate from the airframe to avoid personal liability. This situation just reeked of calamity. I am still happy with my decision even if it left some hard feelings.
Robin
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From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Lark
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 6:56 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Why you don't just strap the stick back...
Tim, you are probably right, the hovering was not a huge risk. None the less, I have never attempted it myself. Thinking back, that same instructor used to have me practise precautionary approaches into farmer's field's and we would let the main wheels touch down, and bouncy a bit before we'd lift off again. I guess in a way it was good experience for me. Never have had to actually need that experience though. I wonder if that instructor was a bit of a "cowboy"?
Rck
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--- On Sun, 11/20/11, Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)>
Subject: Re: Why you don't just strap the stick back...
To: "rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)" <rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)>
Received: Sunday, November 20, 2011, 5:36 AM
It's from Russia. I originally found it from Flying Magazine.
Regarding the "stunt" with the instructor...I don't really think it's a huge risky endeavor. After all, your ground speed is minimal, so really other than gusts it shouldn't be a big danger. I've landed in 30+kt steady winds and it is fine if it's not too much of a crosswind or gusty...just feels slow.
Now that said, I think the dangerous part would be the taxi back to the hangar....so I don't think I'll ever hover the RV10....I'd rather not fly in winds with 50+ kts on the ground. If I could take off and land in 20kts and hover at some other airport at 20ft (at) 50kts, sure, I'd love to give that a go. It's just a river of moving air, and airplanes only know airspeed.....same as flying with 70kt tailwinds doesn't make the airplane different. I've had some great trip times with high tailwinds. (and flew the rv10 like a cessna with 50+ kt headwinds.
Tim
On Nov 19, 2011, at 10:44 PM, Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
Take another look at that video. Any large wind would just roll the plane back, not make it fly. I think this video is in the same class as the 'missing wing' video .... both are model airplanes. Doesn't look like an N# on the fuselage side either.
Linn
On 11/19/2011 11:26 PM, Rick Lark wrote:
Phil, I remember the flight instructor I did most of my primary training with (some 34 years ago) was able to hover a C-150. In a very strong steady wind, he would use just the right amount of throttle, and could keep the aircraft off the ground about 2-3 feet. Can't say I have ever tried it myself, nor do I think I could. I can't imagine what an insurance company today would have to say about a stunt like that.
Rick
#40956
Southampton, Ont
--- On Fri, 11/18/11, Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Why you don't just strap the stick back...
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Received: Friday, November 18, 2011, 12:36 AM
Agreed. I always thought that was a dumb idea.
I used to get in the sim and set the wind speed dead on the nose at a steady couple of knots above stalling speed.
Back on the stick and you're up.
Back further on the stick and you're up and going backwards.
Then forward on the stick and you're decending and picking up enough speed to creep forward to your original takeoff point.
Fun exercise in the sim. I don't think it would be nearly as much fun with the turbulence and unpredictable winds in real life.
Phil
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 6:20 PM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com> wrote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com>
After Sun-N-Fun, I read some things about proper methods of
tying down that made some real sense. Later, I also wrote
some things too, to pass along the word.
One disturbing thing I see at OSH and other places when I
see RV's tied down, is that many builders simply strap their
stick back with the seatbelt to secure the stick, locking
the ailerons and elevators.
Here's a video that shows exactly why that's a dumb idea.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-wjtP90d_g
If the above link doesn't work, go to youtube and search for
"Accidental VTOL Takeoff" posted by "MessedUpShet".
On my site, I show my rudder gust lock, with a strap
that holds the stick in the neutral position (both
axis) when I use the seat belt to pull the stick back.
That should help prevent such a thing to some degree.
Another thing that can cause you problems is having the
flaps left down. If you have problems keeping people
from stepping on your flaps, then great, put them down
when boarding and disembarking the plane. But, once
you're ready to leave the plane, put them up, because
in a wind storm, the flaps will work as designed...
They'll create extra drag, to allow the wind to push
your plane harder against it's tiedowns, and by trapping
the air under the wing it can add more lift.
Just some common sense things to pass along regarding
tying down...but the video was a real eye opener for me.
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
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