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Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
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 Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:54 am Post subject: A few reflections at 115 hours from a very happy builder. |
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Just a few thoughts that may be of some value.
Rudder Trim: Not really needed
I've been climbing and cruising at full power. I've been descending at high and low power settings. I've found that the 'natural' friction of the rudder control system will hold the necessary trim in typical calm cruising conditions. The lightest pressure on the right rudder will handle things for initial climbout. Though I've made provisions for a spring type rudder trim, at this point I don't see any reason to install it.
Trimming for roll: The elevator trim tabs have a significant effect on roll trim
As we all know or will find out, the elevator trim tab setup is disturbingly asymmetric in operation. Not a problem, just strange. When doing the final setup, there are some guidelines for how this asymmetry should be handled. What I've found is that a few turns of the clevis at one trim tab can have a noticeable effect on roll trim. So if you seem to require the aileron trim to be set one way or the other, consider a small adjustment of the elevator trim tabs. You can make noticeable changes while still staying within the guidelines for general setup. On a related topic....
Building a 'straight' airframe: This plane just 'snaps' together.... it really does (this is a QB statement). There isn't a significant bit of jigging required anywhere to build a straight aircraft.... with one possible exception... or maybe it was just me. The one task I initially screwed up was drilling the elevator horns. I screwed it up so badly that a complete rework was required with the gracious help of my Tech Counselor. But even with the rework and a second chance to get it right, I ever so slightly screwed it again. That is, my elevators are ever so slightly misaligned. Grrrrr! I'm living with it now and it's all okay (see "trimming for roll"). But, take time and care with the drilling of the elevator horns!
Economy: LOP ops Rock! I'm getting far better economy from the 260HP efficient '10 than I ever got from my 180HP Maule... in all regimes. No surprise in retrospect but I just didn't expect it. Long term effects of LOP? I'm confident it's the best thing I can do to my engine. Time will tell.
Overall: For this pilot It's hard to imagine a better 4 place homebuilt cruiser than he '10. Easy and fun to fly, great performance in all respects, roomy, good looking, etc, etc. I don't have that much experience in that many aircraft to make credible comparisons so I'll just leave it at that. One thing it doesn't do well is flying in the convective chop that is common on most sunny days. The nose hunts all over the place, especially in yaw. I try not to give rides in the middle of the day or below 4k to 6k on a normal Carolina day.
So What!
Bill "happily buzzing at 6 months and 115 hours" Watson
#40605
MyRV10.com - The RV10 Builders Page
[quote][b]
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partner14
Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 540
Location: Granbury Texas
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:21 am Post subject: A few reflections at 115 hours from a very happy builder. |
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Ditto Ditto Ditto Ditto Ditto.... and that's all I have to say.
Don
From: Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 7:53 AM
Subject: A few reflections at 115 hours from a very happy builder.
Just a few thoughts that may be of some value.
Rudder Trim: Not really needed
I've been climbing and cruising at full power. I've been descending at high and low power settings. I've found that the 'natural' friction of the rudder control system will hold the necessary trim in typical calm cruising conditions. The lightest pressure on the right rudder will handle things for initial climbout. Though I've made provisions for a spring type rudder trim, at this point I don't see any reason to install it.
Trimming for roll: The elevator trim tabs have a significant effect on roll trim
As we all know or will find out, the elevator trim tab setup is disturbingly asymmetric in operation. Not a problem, just strange. When doing the final setup, there are some guidelines for how this asymmetry should be handled. What I've found is that a few turns of the clevis at one trim tab can have a noticeable effect on roll trim. So if you seem to require the aileron trim to be set one way or the other, consider a small adjustment of the elevator trim tabs. You can make noticeable changes while still staying within the guidelines for general setup. On a related topic....
Building a 'straight' airframe: This plane just 'snaps' together.... it really does (this is a QB statement). There isn't a significant bit of jigging required anywhere to build a straight aircraft.... with one possible exception... or maybe it was just me. The one task I initially screwed up was drilling the elevator horns. I screwed it up so badly that a complete rework was required with the gracious help of my Tech Counselor. But even with the rework and a second chance to get it right, I ever so slightly screwed it again. That is, my elevators are ever so slightly misaligned. Grrrrr! I'm living with it now and it's all okay (see "trimming for roll"). But, take time and care with the drilling of the elevator horns!
Economy: LOP ops Rock! I'm getting far better economy from the 260HP efficient '10 than I ever got from my 180HP Maule... in all regimes. No surprise in retrospect but I just didn't expect it. Long term effects of LOP? I'm confident it's the best thing I can do to my engine. Time will tell.
Overall: For this pilot It's hard to imagine a better 4 place homebuilt cruiser than he '10. Easy and fun to fly, great performance in all respects, roomy, good looking, etc, etc. I don't have that much experience in that many aircraft to make credible comparisons so I'll just leave it at that. One thing it doesn't do well is flying in the convective chop that is common on most sunny days. The nose hunts all over the place, especially in yaw. I try not to give rides in the middle of the day or below 4k to 6k on a normal Carolina day.
So What!
Bill "happily buzzing at 6 months and 115 hours" Watson
#40605
MyRV10.com - The RV10 Builders Page
[quote]http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?R======================
[b]
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Don A. McDonald
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dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:25 am Post subject: A few reflections at 115 hours from a very happy builder. |
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I didn't think rudder trim was necessary but I was talked in to
installing it and now I wouldn't be without.
Bill, I think you may have explained something strange that happens to
me in cruise from time to time. Every now and then, in calm air,
straight and level, the plane suddenly yaws to one side pretty
significantly. Enough so that I have to re-trim the rudder. It
really gets my attention.
I assume there is a detectable amount of cross-talk between yaw and
roll. That is, yaw puts in a little roll and vice-verse.
I have auto-trim on the elevator (which I love) and after reading
Bill's note about asymmetric elevator trim, it occurred to me that
maybe at some point the auto-trim moves the tabs through zero, from
slightly rudder-trimmed for left-roll to completely untrimmed for the
new right-roll condition.
Maybe I need auto-yaw...
--Dave Saylor
On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 8:47 AM, Robin Marks <robin(at)painttheweb.com> wrote:
| Quote: | I have to decent from the Rudder Trim observation. I LOVE having my rudder
trim. Maybe because we design a trick one for the 10 & 8A but if you want
the plane perfectly coordinated in most phases of flight (I never bother on
climb out) having an adjustable rudder trim is nice. One note, I included a
position sensor which is indicated on my G900x for the 10. After flying for
a while I figured out we already have a position indicator called the slip
ball. On the 8A I just installed the servo, no position sensor or indicator
needed just center the ball. Duhhh
Robin
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don McDonald
Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 7:21 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: A few reflections at 115 hours from a very happy
builder.
Ditto Ditto Ditto Ditto Ditto.... and that's all I have to say.
Don
From: Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 7:53 AM
Subject: A few reflections at 115 hours from a very happy
builder.
Just a few thoughts that may be of some value.
Rudder Trim: Not really needed
I've been climbing and cruising at full power. I've been descending at
high and low power settings. I've found that the 'natural' friction of the
rudder control system will hold the necessary trim in typical calm cruising
conditions. The lightest pressure on the right rudder will handle things
for initial climbout. Though I've made provisions for a spring type rudder
trim, at this point I don't see any reason to install it.
Trimming for roll: The elevator trim tabs have a significant effect on roll
trim
As we all know or will find out, the elevator trim tab setup is disturbingly
asymmetric in operation. Not a problem, just strange. When doing the final
setup, there are some guidelines for how this asymmetry should be handled.
What I've found is that a few turns of the clevis at one trim tab can have a
noticeable effect on roll trim. So if you seem to require the aileron trim
to be set one way or the other, consider a small adjustment of the elevator
trim tabs. You can make noticeable changes while still staying within the
guidelines for general setup. On a related topic....
Building a 'straight' airframe:Â This plane just 'snaps' together.... it
really does (this is a QB statement). There isn't a significant bit of
jigging required anywhere to build a straight aircraft.... with one possible
exception... or maybe it was just me. The one task I initially screwed up
was drilling the elevator horns. I screwed it up so badly that a complete
rework was required with the gracious help of my Tech Counselor. But even
with the rework and a second chance to get it right, I ever so slightly
screwed it again. That is, my elevators are ever so slightly misaligned.
Grrrrr! I'm living with it now and it's all okay (see "trimming for
roll"). But, take time and care with the drilling of the elevator horns!
Economy: LOP ops Rock! I'm getting far better economy from the 260HP
efficient '10 than I ever got from my 180HP Maule... in all regimes. No
surprise in retrospect but I just didn't expect it. Long term effects of
LOP? I'm confident it's the best thing I can do to my engine. Time will
tell.
Overall: For this pilot It's hard to imagine a better 4 place homebuilt
cruiser than he '10.  Easy and fun to fly, great performance in all
respects, roomy, good looking, etc, etc. I don't have that much experience
in that many aircraft to make credible comparisons so I'll just leave it at
that. Â One thing it doesn't do well is flying in the convective chop that
is common on most sunny days. The nose hunts all over the place,
especially in yaw. I try not to give rides in the middle of the day or
below 4k to 6k on a normal Carolina day.
So What!
Bill "happily buzzing at 6 months and 115 hours" Watson
#40605
MyRV10.com - The RV10 Builders Page
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?R======================
============== V10-List Email Forum - > :p> /o:p>
tor?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List ==============
bsp;Â Â Â - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - :p> tp://forums.matronics.com
============== bsp;Â - List Contribution Web Site - e>
bsp;Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
bution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ==============
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jchang10
Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 227
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:47 am Post subject: Re: A few reflections at 115 hours from a very happy builder |
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I agree with Robin, i did not have rudder trim on first flight, but it was the very first thing i added after the 40 hours. The one i have (skunkworks) is less than ideal with a skunky klunky control knob but i got it working good enough. I heard rumors a well known aftermarket supplier is working on their own version, which will undoubtedly be much better than the one i tweaked.
My plane is very sensitive to CG and loading. Aileron trim takes care of side to side. The rudder trim was important for forward and aft loading. Fwd and aft sensitivity also varied on speed. I suppose others might get lucky and not have the same issues.
In cruise with fwd CG, the ball is ever so slightly left. With mid CG, the ball was always right. With aft CG, the ball was way way right. Now, my rudder trim is mostly always set slightly biased right in cruise, and my right leg can relax. I will tweak it slightly left or right based on loading and speed.
Finally, the spring system helps keep the rudder from flopping around so much in winds. You feel like a helpless lamb the first time you watch your poor rudder flopping around with the original system while parked without the rudder secured.
I agree about building the plane as true and straight as possible. The truer and straighter the plane is built, means the easier the finishing stage is when the whole plane comes together. Later on, it means the easier the maintenance is when you continue to take things off and on and off and on, etc. This is the long-term reward for scrapping something or redoing it until it is just right.
Finally, about wind, we get a fair amount of wind on the coast. No plane is immune to the effects of wind. However, I think the -10 does pretty good compared to most of the Cessnas at least. I hear them giving pireps to each other to stay away, which is amusing because I am happy as a clam. We wont do as well as a Lanciar or Cirrus, but we don't have to land at 120knots either!
Jae
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_________________
#40533 RV-10
First flight 10/19/2011
Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011 |
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Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:02 am Post subject: A few reflections at 115 hours from a very happy builder. |
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Wow, that would be an interesting situation if true. I too have
auto-trim (LOVE IT) but haven't noticed the same thing. Of course, I
usually have a toe or two on the rudders and would probably catch it
without noticing. Will keep an eye out for it.
On 2/29/2012 12:21 PM, Dave Saylor wrote:
| Quote: |
I didn't think rudder trim was necessary but I was talked in to
installing it and now I wouldn't be without.
Bill, I think you may have explained something strange that happens to
me in cruise from time to time. Every now and then, in calm air,
straight and level, the plane suddenly yaws to one side pretty
significantly. Enough so that I have to re-trim the rudder. It
really gets my attention.
I assume there is a detectable amount of cross-talk between yaw and
roll. That is, yaw puts in a little roll and vice-verse.
I have auto-trim on the elevator (which I love) and after reading
Bill's note about asymmetric elevator trim, it occurred to me that
maybe at some point the auto-trim moves the tabs through zero, from
slightly rudder-trimmed for left-roll to completely untrimmed for the
new right-roll condition.
Maybe I need auto-yaw...
--Dave Saylor
|
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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