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krhooper(at)gmail.com
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 Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:04 pm Post subject: flap motor Failure?. |
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It is most likely inhibited by grease and brush dust caked in the motor. Disassembly and cleaning will most likely solve the problem.
This failure and remedy has been widely discussed over on vansairforce.net.
Randy Hooper
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 10, 2012, at 4:44 PM, thomas sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com (sarg314(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]Thursday morning when doing touch and goes in my 6A my flap motor stopped working. I landed and raced off to work and got back to it this morning. It will work for a while and then fail. I removed the switch (a high quality, sealed mil-spec switch) and tested it a lot on the bench - it never failed, I put it back in and the motor was intermittent. I removed the panel to access the motor and tried shaking the wiring and disconnecting and reconnecting the connector I have installed there, all to no effect. Failures didn't seem to correlate with anything Then I made a mating connector with 2 bare leads so the next time it failed I could disconnect the motor, connect the test connector and measure the voltage to see if voltage was getting to the motor. Of course, after that I couldn't get it to fail again. The connectors are good quality automotive ones with gold plated pins. I haven't had any failures of these connectors and I used a lot of them.
So my question is about Van's flap motor typical failure modes. My suspicion is that the wiring and switch are OK - I suspect the motor. Can/does the motor itself often fail this way? I vaguely recall people say these motors aren't very reliable.
--
Tom Sargent
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Dale Ensing
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 571
Location: Aero Plantation Weddington NC
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:05 pm Post subject: flap motor Failure?. |
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Tom, check the brushes in the motor. There is a history of grease from the gear
getting into the brush area and causing the type of failure.
Dale Ensing
RV-6A
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 10, 2012, at 15:44, thomas sargent <sarg314(at)gmail.com (sarg314(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]Thursday morning when doing touch and goes in my 6A my flap motor stopped working. I landed and raced off to work and got back to it this morning. It will work for a while and then fail. I removed the switch (a high quality, sealed mil-spec switch) and tested it a lot on the bench - it never failed, I put it back in and the motor was intermittent. I removed the panel to access the motor and tried shaking the wiring and disconnecting and reconnecting the connector I have installed there, all to no effect. Failures didn't seem to correlate with anything Then I made a mating connector with 2 bare leads so the next time it failed I could disconnect the motor, connect the test connector and measure the voltage to see if voltage was getting to the motor. Of course, after that I couldn't get it to fail again. The connectors are good quality automotive ones with gold plated pins. I haven't had any failures of these connectors and I used a lot of them.
So my question is about Van's flap motor typical failure modes. My suspicion is that the wiring and switch are OK - I suspect the motor. Can/does the motor itself often fail this way? I vaguely recall people say these motors aren't very reliable.
--
Tom Sargent
[b]
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Dale Ensing
RV-6A
Aero Plantation
Weddington NC |
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recapen(at)earthlink.net
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:47 pm Post subject: flap motor Failure?. |
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I had the same failure mode on about my third flight. I had to take my motor apart and clean the contacts. There was too much grease on them – which cooked and caused an open! No problems since.
IIRC Van’s has a document on how to do this on their website – especially the part about putting the motor back together…..
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of thomas sargent
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 4:44 PM
To: rv-list
Subject: flap motor Failure?.
Thursday morning when doing touch and goes in my 6A my flap motor stopped working. I landed and raced off to work and got back to it this morning. It will work for a while and then fail. I removed the switch (a high quality, sealed mil-spec switch) and tested it a lot on the bench - it never failed, I put it back in and the motor was intermittent. I removed the panel to access the motor and tried shaking the wiring and disconnecting and reconnecting the connector I have installed there, all to no effect. Failures didn't seem to correlate with anything Then I made a mating connector with 2 bare leads so the next time it failed I could disconnect the motor, connect the test connector and measure the voltage to see if voltage was getting to the motor. Of course, after that I couldn't get it to fail again. The connectors are good quality automotive ones with gold plated pins. I haven't had any failures of these connectors and I used a lot of them.
So my question is about Van's flap motor typical failure modes. My suspicion is that the wiring and switch are OK - I suspect the motor. Can/does the motor itself often fail this way? I vaguely recall people say these motors aren't very reliable.
--
Tom Sargent | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
01234567
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sarg314(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:56 pm Post subject: flap motor Failure?. |
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Thanks, that sounds very likely to be the problem. I now remember reading about this years ago, but I wasn't flying then and had forgotten about it. I'll work on it tomorrow.
--
Tom Sargent
[quote][b]
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gene.lee(at)gte.net
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:37 pm Post subject: flap motor Failure?. |
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I had a failure of my flap motor last year. The problem was the original specification for packing it with grease at the worm gear was found to be problematic over time. Grease was working its way up into the motor and binding it up. My symptom was that the breaker kept popping at random intervals.
I learned that you can buy just a replacement motor from Usher Precision (503.992.0015) for much less than buying the whole flap motor assembly from Vans. So if your time to rebuild the motor isn’t worth the $110.00 that you can buy a brand new one for, Usher is the place to call.
Gene
RV-7a
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 4:54 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: flap motor Failure?.
I had the same failure mode on about my third flight. I had to take my motor apart and clean the contacts. There was too much grease on them – which cooked and caused an open! No problems since.
IIRC Van’s has a document on how to do this on their website – especially the part about putting the motor back together…..
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of thomas sargent
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 4:44 PM
To: rv-list
Subject: flap motor Failure?.
Thursday morning when doing touch and goes in my 6A my flap motor stopped working. I landed and raced off to work and got back to it this morning. It will work for a while and then fail. I removed the switch (a high quality, sealed mil-spec switch) and tested it a lot on the bench - it never failed, I put it back in and the motor was intermittent. I removed the panel to access the motor and tried shaking the wiring and disconnecting and reconnecting the connector I have installed there, all to no effect. Failures didn't seem to correlate with anything Then I made a mating connector with 2 bare leads so the next time it failed I could disconnect the motor, connect the test connector and measure the voltage to see if voltage was getting to the motor. Of course, after that I couldn't get it to fail again. The connectors are good quality automotive ones with gold plated pins. I haven't had any failures of these connectors and I used a lot of them.
So my question is about Van's flap motor typical failure modes. My suspicion is that the wiring and switch are OK - I suspect the motor. Can/does the motor itself often fail this way? I vaguely recall people say these motors aren't very reliable.
--
Tom Sargent012345678901234567
[quote][b]
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vanremog(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:59 pm Post subject: flap motor Failure?. |
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I think the motor proper is probably quite reliable. Pittman makes good motors. On the other hand, I have heard that the way these linear actuators get greased during assembly can be a problem. The gear grease ends up migrating into the commutator/brush area of the motor hosing up the operation. You may ultimately be able to correct it thru disassembly and a cleaning of this area with IPA.
-GV
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sarg314(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:26 pm Post subject: flap motor Failure?. |
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I took the motor apart. The brushes were definitely gunked up. Cleaned all with acetone and Q-tip and got it back together and working.  thanks for all the info.
A word to any one doing this for the first time: My first attempt was to do this with the motor in place in the plane (RV-6A) which was a bad move because the motor is sloping down at a 45 deg. angle. When you remove the cap on the end, things can fall out (there are 3 tiny washers). In the end it is less work to just remove the motor from the plane.  I left it mounted in the aluminum U-channel and removed the bolt that goes thru the rod end bearing. If all other screws holding in the channel are removed, you can get that assembly out. The springs that press the brushes into the motor shaft have to be tied back with string or thin wire when you re-assemble it. I used safety wire.Â
--
Tom Sargent
[quote][b]
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