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Flight over Grand Canyon

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lyleap(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 3:47 pm Post subject: Flight over Grand Canyon

Just changing the subject.  It's all very interesting conversation.

     

     On 5/3/2012 6:36 PM, Bob Turner wrote:      	  Quote: 	
		          	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)



re: Grand Canyon:



I cannot say it enough, skip GCN (Grand Canyon Airport). It is expensive, 100LL very expensive, not at all GA friendly. It caters to the tour operators.



Instead go to Valle (40G), 25 miles or so south of GCN. Very GA friendly, reasonable gas prices. If you want to tour the park on the ground the FBO has a couple of reasonably priced rental cars (reserve in advance). There is an adequate motel/restaurant within walking distance of the airport.



The airport density altitude can be high, but no problem for an RV as long as you're under gross.



--------

Bob Turner

RV-10 QB





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372372#372372



	
     	
     

     -- 

       Lyle Peterson, EAA, PGR, AOPA, AAE,

         MBS, AMA, MSCE, EAA Chapter 237 

      [quote][b]

Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 8:21 am Post subject: Flight over Grand Canyon

Good idea Lyle, thanks.  And thanks to all who have commented.

     

     I'm planning to spend a week in Phoenix and trying to plan a few     flights out with friends.  Again, Sedona is on the list (pretty     landscape as I understand it) and the Grand Canyon (double ditto). 

     

     Any useful details or alternate destinations welcome. 

     

     Thanks

     Bill Watson

     

     On 5/3/2012 7:46 PM, Lyle Peterson wrote:     [quote]              Just changing the subject.  It's all very interesting       conversation.

       

       On 5/3/2012 6:36 PM, Bob Turner wrote:        	  Quote: 	
		            	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)



re: Grand Canyon:



I cannot say it enough, skip GCN (Grand Canyon Airport). It is expensive, 100LL very expensive, not at all GA friendly. It caters to the tour operators.



Instead go to Valle (40G), 25 miles or so south of GCN. Very GA friendly, reasonable gas prices. If you want to tour the park on the ground the FBO has a couple of reasonably priced rental cars (reserve in advance). There is an adequate motel/restaurant within walking distance of the airport.



The airport density altitude can be high, but no problem for an RV as long as you're under gross.



	
       	
     [b]

cgroote1(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 10:37 am Post subject: Flight over Grand Canyon

I've been to grand canyon airport (gcn) twice in the last year, the last being six days ago.  my experience was different.  they were very helpful, arranged a cab for us to the rim, answered questions, and gave good advice. Fuel is relatively expensive so you preplan your fuel stops.



Curtis Groote

On May 4, 2012, at 9:19 AM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com (Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com)> wrote:



[quote]                   Good idea Lyle, thanks.  And thanks to all who have commented.

     

     I'm planning to spend a week in Phoenix and trying to plan a few     flights out with friends.  Again, Sedona is on the list (pretty     landscape as I understand it) and the Grand Canyon (double ditto). 

     

     Any useful details or alternate destinations welcome. 

     

     Thanks

     Bill Watson

     

     On 5/3/2012 7:46 PM, Lyle Peterson wrote:      	  Quote: 	
		                Just changing the subject.  It's all very interesting       conversation.

       

       On 5/3/2012 6:36 PM, Bob Turner wrote:        	  Quote: 	
		            	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)



re: Grand Canyon:



I cannot say it enough, skip GCN (Grand Canyon Airport). It is expensive, 100LL very expensive, not at all GA friendly. It caters to the tour operators.



Instead go to Valle (40G), 25 miles or so south of GCN. Very GA friendly, reasonable gas prices. If you want to tour the park on the ground the FBO has a couple of reasonably priced rental cars (reserve in advance). There is an adequate motel/restaurant within walking distance of the airport.



The airport density altitude can be high, but no problem for an RV as long as you're under gross.



	
       	
     



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


[b]

cgroote1(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 10:39 am Post subject: Flight over Grand Canyon

I've been to grand canyon airport (gcn) twice in the last year, the last being six days ago.  my experience was different.  they were very helpful, arranged a cab for us to the rim, answered questions, and gave good advice. Fuel is relatively expensive so you preplan your fuel stops.



Curtis Groote

On May 4, 2012, at 9:19 AM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com (Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		                     Good idea Lyle, thanks.  And thanks to all who have commented.

     

     I'm planning to spend a week in Phoenix and trying to plan a few     flights out with friends.  Again, Sedona is on the list (pretty     landscape as I understand it) and the Grand Canyon (double ditto). 

     

     Any useful details or alternate destinations welcome. 

     

     Thanks

     Bill Watson

     

     On 5/3/2012 7:46 PM, Lyle Peterson wrote:      	  Quote: 	
		                Just changing the subject.  It's all very interesting       conversation.

       

       On 5/3/2012 6:36 PM, Bob Turner wrote:        	  Quote: 	
		            	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)



re: Grand Canyon:



I cannot say it enough, skip GCN (Grand Canyon Airport). It is expensive, 100LL very expensive, not at all GA friendly. It caters to the tour operators.



Instead go to Valle (40G), 25 miles or so south of GCN. Very GA friendly, reasonable gas prices. If you want to tour the park on the ground the FBO has a couple of reasonably priced rental cars (reserve in advance). There is an adequate motel/restaurant within walking distance of the airport.



The airport density altitude can be high, but no problem for an RV as long as you're under gross.



	
       	
     



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


	




[quote][b]

cgroote1(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 10:41 am Post subject: Flight over Grand Canyon

I've been to grand canyon airport (gcn) twice in the last year, the last being six days ago.  my experience was different.  they were very helpful, arranged a cab for us to the rim, answered questions, and gave good advice. Fuel is relatively expensive so you preplan your fuel stops.



Curtis Groote

On May 4, 2012, at 9:19 AM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com (Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		                     Good idea Lyle, thanks.  And thanks to all who have commented.

     

     I'm planning to spend a week in Phoenix and trying to plan a few     flights out with friends.  Again, Sedona is on the list (pretty     landscape as I understand it) and the Grand Canyon (double ditto). 

     

     Any useful details or alternate destinations welcome. 

     

     Thanks

     Bill Watson

     

     On 5/3/2012 7:46 PM, Lyle Peterson wrote:      	  Quote: 	
		                Just changing the subject.  It's all very interesting       conversation.

       

       On 5/3/2012 6:36 PM, Bob Turner wrote:        	  Quote: 	
		            	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)



re: Grand Canyon:



I cannot say it enough, skip GCN (Grand Canyon Airport). It is expensive, 100LL very expensive, not at all GA friendly. It caters to the tour operators.



Instead go to Valle (40G), 25 miles or so south of GCN. Very GA friendly, reasonable gas prices. If you want to tour the park on the ground the FBO has a couple of reasonably priced rental cars (reserve in advance). There is an adequate motel/restaurant within walking distance of the airport.



The airport density altitude can be high, but no problem for an RV as long as you're under gross.



	
       	
     



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

jchang10

Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 227

Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 11:20 am Post subject: Flight over Grand Canyon

Grand Canyon is about 3.5 hrs flight time for me. That is absolutely     on my list of places to visit, hopefully, one day soon.

     

     I hope you can give us some good pilot reports on your trip!

     

     Jae

     

     On 5/4/2012 9:19 AM, Bill Watson wrote:     [quote]              Good idea Lyle, thanks.  And thanks to all who have commented.

       

       I'm planning to spend a week in Phoenix and trying to plan a few       flights out with friends.  Again, Sedona is on the list (pretty       landscape as I understand it) and the Grand Canyon (double ditto).       

       

       Any useful details or alternate destinations welcome. 

       

       Thanks

       Bill Watson

     -- 

#40533 RV-10

First flight 10/19/2011

Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011[b]

_________________
#40533 RV-10
First flight 10/19/2011
Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 1:41 pm Post subject: Flight over Grand Canyon

If you have need or space, there are probably a few of us locals available. I'm at Chandler, KCHD.



On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 12:19 PM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com (Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com)> wrote:

 [quote]                   Good idea Lyle, thanks.  And thanks to all who have commented.

     

     I'm planning to spend a week in Phoenix and trying to plan a few     flights out with friends.  Again, Sedona is on the list (pretty     landscape as I understand it) and the Grand Canyon (double ditto). 

     

     Any useful details or alternate destinations welcome. 

     

     Thanks

     Bill Watson

     

     On 5/3/2012 7:46 PM, Lyle Peterson wrote:      	  Quote: 	
		                Just changing the subject.  It's all very interesting       conversation.

       

       On 5/3/2012 6:36 PM, Bob Turner wrote:        	  Quote: 	
		            	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)



re: Grand Canyon:



I cannot say it enough, skip GCN (Grand Canyon Airport). It is expensive, 100LL very expensive, not at all GA friendly. It caters to the tour operators.



Instead go to Valle (40G), 25 miles or so south of GCN. Very GA friendly, reasonable gas prices. If you want to tour the park on the ground the FBO has a couple of reasonably priced rental cars (reserve in advance). There is an adequate motel/restaurant within walking distance of the airport.



The airport density altitude can be high, but no problem for an RV as long as you're under gross.



	
       	
     



get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


[b]

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 3:05 pm Post subject: Re: Flight over Grand Canyon

I'm glad to hear things have improved - except for 100LL, which airnav reports at $7.20 per gal.

I was there 3 (or was it 4?) years ago. No rental cars (still true, I think) and maybe it was bad luck, but it took forever to get a cab, and that wasn't cheap.

Also, attempting to arrive or depart in the evening involved climbing a padlocked chain link fence!



I'd still recommend Valle as an alternative. Much cheaper gas, and their rental van was no more expensive than cab fare from KGCN. And it's only a 25 minute or so ride from Valle to the park entrance.

Also, while you're at Valle, they have an interesting museum of old cars and a couple of old planes.

And the local motel/restaurant is an okay place to RON.

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

jerry-hansen(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 3:43 pm Post subject: Flight over Grand Canyon

First time there was 1974.  Fuel around $1.60 per gal.  Had a nice lunch.

Took off and flew (legally) down in the canyon (imprudent, yes) - the lower

you go the more impressive the scenery.  Ah, the "good old days".



--

Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 6:02 pm Post subject: Flight over Grand Canyon

I've started studying the airspace situation - it's worse than DC.  

Seems like you must stay 2 or 3 thousand above the canyon at all times.  

Will need to obtain the Grand Canyon sectional for details.



I'm assuming that flying over the area at 7 to 10 MSL is beautiful but 

not thrilling which is fine.  I'm thinking we may day trip it from 

Phoenix.  Just have to decide on a good place to stop on the ground.  

Might be nice to overfly then land by the lake for lunch.



Bill



On 5/4/2012 7:42 PM, Jerry Hansen wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 First time there was 1974.  Fuel around $1.60 per gal.  Had a nice lunch.

 Took off and flew (legally) down in the canyon (imprudent, yes) - the lower

 you go the more impressive the scenery.  Ah, the "good old days".

Albert Gardner

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 455
Location: Yuma, AZ

Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 10:41 pm Post subject: Flight over Grand Canyon

Grand Canyon is 9 and above depending on region. On the other hand no F-16's

will come and check you out but plenty of air tour operators to/from Vegas

and St George. Monitor the chart freqs and you will have no problem. You

will get some excellent pics overflying the canyon at the required altitudes

though. If you land at any of the area strips low level flight in the

vicinity of the airport is authorized. On the other hand, there are plenty

of tree huggers down there to complain.

Albert Gardner



--

_________________
RV-9A N872RV
RV-10 N991RV

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 1:53 am Post subject: Flight over Grand Canyon

Actually it isn't that bad. While many will suggest you should be

above the air tour aircraft, but it isn't a requirement, you just need

to be on the correct frequency for the sector and communicate what you

are doing so everyone knows where the traffic is.  So generally you

can be in the 1-2 thousand AGL, remembering that the north side of the

canyon is often 1000 above the south side.  Also you can be lower the

further away from the GCN airport and main tourist area.  Page and

Glen Canyon dam area is also scenic with less restriction.

Keep density altitude in mind, and hopefully stay at least a couple

hundred lbs below gross wt so your plane doesn't handle like a

sluggish pig.

On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 10:00 PM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 I've started studying the airspace situation - it's worse than DC.  Seems

 like you must stay 2 or 3 thousand above the canyon at all times.  Will need

 to obtain the Grand Canyon sectional for details.

 I'm assuming that flying over the area at 7 to 10 MSL is beautiful but not

 thrilling which is fine.  I'm thinking we may day trip it from Phoenix.

  Just have to decide on a good place to stop on the ground.  Might be nice

 to overfly then land by the lake for lunch.

 Bill

 On 5/4/2012 7:42 PM, Jerry Hansen wrote:

>

> 

>

> First time there was 1974.  Fuel around $1.60 per gal.  Had a nice lunch.

> Took off and flew (legally) down in the canyon (imprudent, yes) - the

> lower

> you go the more impressive the scenery.  Ah, the "good old days".

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

Bill Strahan

Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 145

Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 8:45 pm Post subject: Re: Flight over Grand Canyon

Just my 2 cents:  I strongly encourage you to get the Grand Canyon chart far in advance, and plan your flight to criss cross the canyon in the corridors provided.



I've been a couple of times, and by far the most enjoyable time was when I took the chart and plotted out my own waypoints by measuring lat/lon directly on the chart.  I then put those in as user waypoints and had the autopilot fly the course.  I entered from the South, crossed once at one altitude, the autopilot made the turn for me as I descended to come back the other way.



I had my wife and 4 kids in the plane that time, and it was WONDERFUL to know exactly where I was at all times, be able to keep my head out of the plane 100% of the time and participate in my family's enjoyment.



If you have the chart and arrive and hand fly the corridors you'll still enjoy it, but it sure takes a load off to have a planned course and fly that plan.  Mark the points on your chart and use a straight-edge to find what the lat/lon is from the graticule on the chart.



One other thing:  We spent early morning in Sedona.  Then saw the Grand Canyon.  Then hit Monument Valley. All doable in a day, but it's all so freaking spectacular that your mind just goes numb and shuts down.  Highly recommend you try to enjoy each separately and get the most.



Have a safe flight!

mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 10:30 pm Post subject: Flight over Grand Canyon

That all sounds right on the mark!  Will spend all the 2 cents.



Sent from my iPad



On May 7, 2012, at 12:45 AM, "Bill Strahan" <bill(at)gdsx.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Just my 2 cents:  I strongly encourage you to get the Grand Canyon chart far in advance, and plan your flight to criss cross the canyon in the corridors provided.

 

 I've been a couple of times, and by far the most enjoyable time was when I took the chart and plotted out my own waypoints by measuring lat/lon directly on the chart.  I then put those in as user waypoints and had the autopilot fly the course.  I entered from the South, crossed once at one altitude, the autopilot made the turn for me as I descended to come back the other way.

 

 I had my wife and 4 kids in the plane that time, and it was WONDERFUL to know exactly where I was at all times, be able to keep my head out of the plane 100% of the time and participate in my family's enjoyment.

 

 If you have the chart and arrive and hand fly the corridors you'll still enjoy it, but it sure takes a load off to have a planned course and fly that plan.  Mark the points on your chart and use a straight-edge to find what the lat/lon is from the graticule on the chart.

 

 One other thing:  We spent early morning in Sedona.  Then saw the Grand Canyon.  Then hit Monument Valley. All doable in a day, but it's all so freaking spectacular that your mind just goes numb and shuts down.  Highly recommend you try to enjoy each separately and get the most.

 

 Have a safe flight!

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372528#372528

robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Guest

Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 11:29 pm Post subject: Flight over Grand Canyon

http://www.swaviator.com/html/issueJJ99/canyon.html



Interesting site detailing the issues surrounding GC flights. About half way down the author discusses his favorite path to fly the GC as a GA pilot with the current restrictions. Sounds like a lot of fun.



Robin



Sent from the new iPad



On May 6, 2012, at 11:33 PM, "Bill Watson" <mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 That all sounds right on the mark!  Will spend all the 2 cents.

 

 Sent from my iPad

 

 On May 7, 2012, at 12:45 AM, "Bill Strahan" <bill(at)gdsx.com> wrote:

 

> 

> 

> Just my 2 cents:  I strongly encourage you to get the Grand Canyon chart far in advance, and plan your flight to criss cross the canyon in the corridors provided.

> 

> I've been a couple of times, and by far the most enjoyable time was when I took the chart and plotted out my own waypoints by measuring lat/lon directly on the chart.  I then put those in as user waypoints and had the autopilot fly the course.  I entered from the South, crossed once at one altitude, the autopilot made the turn for me as I descended to come back the other way.

> 

> I had my wife and 4 kids in the plane that time, and it was WONDERFUL to know exactly where I was at all times, be able to keep my head out of the plane 100% of the time and participate in my family's enjoyment.

> 

> If you have the chart and arrive and hand fly the corridors you'll still enjoy it, but it sure takes a load off to have a planned course and fly that plan.  Mark the points on your chart and use a straight-edge to find what the lat/lon is from the graticule on the chart.

> 

> One other thing:  We spent early morning in Sedona.  Then saw the Grand Canyon.  Then hit Monument Valley. All doable in a day, but it's all so freaking spectacular that your mind just goes numb and shuts down.  Highly recommend you try to enjoy each separately and get the most.

> 

> Have a safe flight!

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Read this topic online here:

> 

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372528#372528

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

>

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