barnett6088(at)msn.com
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 Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:08 am Post subject: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 06/22/12 |
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Jim
Is your aircraft high wing or low wing?� If low wing your boost pump should be on.� On my Lightning�fuel comes out very fast with the pump on.� Gary Barnett N335AL
�
| Quote: | Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 06/22/12
From: jh(at)gulftel.com
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:19:25 -0500
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
--> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: James Henderson <jh(at)gulftel.com>
Good Morning,
Re the gascolator on my 3300 engine. I never see more than a tablespoon or two drain when I tap my gascolator at preflight. By contrast, my Cessna would truly flow out. Please advise what I should expect as well as the proper interval to clean.
Many thanks,,,
Jim Henderson N910CJ in AL.
On Jun 23, 2012, at 2:00 AM, JabiruEngine-List Digest Server wrote:
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> ---
> Total Messages Posted Fri 06/22/12: 3
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 04:29 AM - Re: Fuel Pressure (FLYaDIVE)
> 2. 06:29 AM - Re: Fuel Pressure (Pete Krotje)
> 3. 08:26 AM - Re: Fuel Pressure (FLYaDIVE)
>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 04:29:17 AM PST US
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Fuel Pressure
> From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com>
>
> Bobby:
>
> Ethanol does NOT make a transparent goop.
> Have you ever used or sealed your tanks with Silicone (RTV)?
> Have you ever used Teflon Tape on ANY fittings?
> How OLD was the fuel? Old fuel, especially MoGas goes through quite a few
> chemical changes and can clog up a system.
> SHUTTING OFF the fuel valve WILL cut OFF the fuel flow and will create a
> suction in the system so there should NOT be any free flow or great flow of
> fuel. It is doing what a shout off valve is designed to do. THAT is why
> you only got a two tablespoons of gas. Of course when you cracked the fuel
> line the fuel ran down your are - - -You broke the suction, you made the
> fuel flow.
>
> Fuel residue a.k.a. varnish can be removed with MEK.
>
> - Get a glass jar
> - Remove the screen
> - Fill the jar with MEK
> - Soak the screen in the MEK for 5 minutes
> - Blow out the screen with air - From the inside out
> - SPECIAL NOTE - DOES THE SCREEN HAVE PLASTIC? OF SO MEK
> WILL DESTROY THE PLASTIC/SCREEN
>
> Now - If you have this goop in the gascolator screen - Don't you think you
> would also have this goop INSIDE the carburetor!!! Don't Fly - CLEAN.
>
> I would also FLUSH - BOTH - Tanks - And replace with fresh gas. Do you
> have a center tank/header tank. If so, flush that also.
>
> You have a job ahead of you.
>
> Barry
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 5:54 PM, <BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> List
>> Today I determined to find out what caused the fuel pressure drop. I shut
>> off the fuel valve and drained only about 2 tablespoons full of fuel out of
>> the gascolator - which I thought a little odd. When I removed the
>> gascolator it was full of fuel. The quick drain was partly plugged but
>> nothing that I could see that would cause that - only a few tiny grit
>> particles that I picked up with a white rag. I then removed the gasket and
>> screen and got fuel running down my elbow from downstream of the
>> gascolator. I wondered why it did not drain back thru the stainless steel
>> screen. I looked carefully at the screen in daylight and saw it was about
>> 80% blocked with a transparent goop that a degreaser had little effect on.
>> I cleaned it further with soap and water but finally blew it back from the
>> direction of flow and could see small particles flying off the screen as
>> the air nozzle hit it. I continued all around the screen until it was
>> clean.
>> I re-installed the screen and gascolator and ran up really good on both
>> tanks and then test flew.
>> My fuel pressure was back where it was and only dropped a little at full
>> throttle but never below 2.2 psi.
>> I believe the residue to be a left over of evaporated Ethanol fuel that
>> had been in my grandson's 5 gal. gas can for his Jon boat for over a year.
>> I saw the goop in the bottom of the can and rinsed it. Thinking that was
>> sufficient. It was not. My engine failed after putting the 5 gal. of fresh
>> fuel in the left tank back in December. Luckily it quit on taxi out and I
>> found out what it was. I cleaned and drained the tanks several times and
>> thought I had it all out. Apparently it was enough residue to gradually
>> coat the fine strainer in the gascolator.
>> I will watch closely and clean regularly for the next few months to see if
>> it returns.
>>
>> Thanks Again for all the helpful inputs
>>
>>
>> Bobby ( age 74 )
>> Zodiac 601 XL "B"
>> Jabiru 3300 S/N 1141
>> Sensenich 64" x 51" Prop
>> Bing Carb 260 Main & 285 Needle Jet
>> Status - Flying 154 hrs.
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:29:28 AM PST US
> From: "Pete Krotje" <pete(at)usjabiru.com>
> Subject: RE: Fuel Pressure
>
> Bobby,
>
>
> What you are describing is similar to what we have seen several times now in
> fuel tanks and carburetors from aircraft operated on auto fuel. There seems
> to be a stringy, mucus like substance that forms in the auto gas that
> eventually winds up in filters, gascolators and carburetors. In two of the
> cases the result was a fatal crash and when carbs were sent to us for
> evaluation we found this similar sticky, slimy substance in the carb which
> prevented proper functioning of the slide.
>
>
> At my forum last spring at Sun N Fun there was a biochemist in the room who
> told us that the substance was a bacterial growth that occurs in the
> boundary layer between ethanol (after it absorbs enough water to separate
> out of the gas) and the gasoline. I don't know if that is true or not.
>
>
> We've seen other engines that were operated on auto gas where the internals
> were covered with a sticky black substance that looked and smelled like
> caramelized sugar. We've seen other aircraft where even non ethanol gas was
> dissolving the tank sealant.
>
>
> At one of our local stations here that advertised non ethanol gas I tested a
> sample (after my pickup truck began running poorly) and found the non
> ethanol gas to contain about 20% ethanol. The station owners were unaware
> and apparently the delivery got screwed up and too much ethanol was added at
> the terminal.
>
>
> The point is that the quality of auto gas at the point of its dispensing
> (the pump) is poorly controlled. Also, the effect of auto gas (with today's
> ever changing mixture of additives) in aircraft engines has not been
> extensively studied. I see some of the results of what seems in my opinion
> to be an escalating problem but my opinion is not based on a very large
> sample of properly collected data. I've just seen the aftermath of some of
> the contamination similar to what Bobby describes.
>
>
> Pete
>
>
> From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE
> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 6:28 AM
> Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Fuel Pressure
>
>
> Bobby:
>
>
> Ethanol does NOT make a transparent goop.
>
> Have you ever used or sealed your tanks with Silicone (RTV)?
>
> Have you ever used Teflon Tape on ANY fittings?
>
> How OLD was the fuel? Old fuel, especially MoGas goes through quite a few
> chemical changes and can clog up a system.
>
> SHUTTING OFF the fuel valve WILL cut OFF the fuel flow and will create a
> suction in the system so there should NOT be any free flow or great flow of
> fuel. It is doing what a shout off valve is designed to do. THAT is why
> you only got a two tablespoons of gas. Of course when you cracked the fuel
> line the fuel ran down your are - - -You broke the suction, you made the
> fuel flow.
>
>
> Fuel residue a.k.a. varnish can be removed with MEK.
>
> * Get a glass jar
> * Remove the screen
> * Fill the jar with MEK
> * Soak the screen in the MEK for 5 minutes
> * Blow out the screen with air - From the inside out
> * SPECIAL NOTE - DOES THE SCREEN HAVE PLASTIC? OF SO MEK WILL DESTROY
> THE PLASTIC/SCREEN
>
> Now - If you have this goop in the gascolator screen - Don't you think you
> would also have this goop INSIDE the carburetor!!! Don't Fly - CLEAN.
>
>
> I would also FLUSH - BOTH - Tanks - And replace with fresh gas. Do you
> have a center tank/header tank. If so, flush that also.
>
>
> You have a job ahead of you.
>
>
> Barry
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 5:54 PM, <BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net> wrote:
>
> List
> Today I determined to find out what caused the fuel pressure drop. I shut
> off the fuel valve and drained only about 2 tablespoons full of fuel out of
> the gascolator - which I thought a little odd. When I removed the gascolator
> it was full of fuel. The quick drain was partly plugged but nothing that I
> could see that would cause that - only a few tiny grit particles that I
> picked up with a white rag. I then removed the gasket and screen and got
> fuel running down my elbow from downstream of the gascolator. I wondered why
> it did not drain back thru the stainless steel screen. I looked carefully at
> the screen in daylight and saw it was about 80% blocked with a transparent
> goop that a degreaser had little effect on. I cleaned it further with soap
> and water but finally blew it back from the direction of flow and could see
> small particles flying off the screen as the air nozzle hit it. I continued
> all around the screen until it was clean.
> I re-installed the screen and gascolator and ran up really good on both
> tanks and then test flew.
> My fuel pressure was back where it was and only dropped a little at full
> throttle but never below 2.2 psi.
> I believe the residue to be a left over of evaporated Ethanol fuel that had
> been in my grandson's 5 gal. gas can for his Jon boat for over a year. I saw
> the goop in the bottom of the can and rinsed it. Thinking that was
> sufficient. It was not. My engine failed after putting the 5 gal. of fresh
> fuel in the left tank back in December. Luckily it quit on taxi out and I
> found out what it was. I cleaned and drained the tanks several times and
> thought I had it all out. Apparently it was enough residue to gradually coat
> the fine strainer in the gascolator.
> I will watch closely and clean regularly for the next few months to see if
> it returns.
>
> Thanks Again for all the helpful inputs
>
>
> Bobby ( age 74 )
> Zodiac 601 XL "B"
> Jabiru 3300 S/N 1141
> Sensenich 64" x 51" Prop
> Bing Carb 260 Main & 285 Needle Jet
> Status - Flying 154 hrs.
>
>
> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 08:26:31 AM PST US
> Subject: Re: Fuel Pressure
> From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com>
>
> Very interesting Pete:
>
> I did not think of the bacterial growth issue. I know that kerosene has a
> bacterial growth and there is an additive you can purchase at places like
> Home Depot to kill the bacteria. I wonder if it will work with MoGas?
>
> Something else to consider... What will be happening to our cars when the
> EPA and obama increase the level of ethanol to 15 and 20% in the next five
> years?
>
> Barry
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 9:28 AM, Pete Krotje <pete(at)usjabiru.com> wrote:
>
>> Bobby,****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> What you are describing is similar to what we have seen several times now
>> in fuel tanks and carburetors from aircraft operated on auto fuel. There
>> seems to be a stringy, mucus like substance that forms in the auto gas th
> at
>> eventually winds up in filters, gascolators and carburetors. In two of t
> he
>> cases the result was a fatal crash and when carbs were sent to us for
>> evaluation we found this similar sticky, slimy substance in the carb whic
> h
>> prevented proper functioning of the slide.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> At my forum last spring at Sun N Fun there was a biochemist in the room
>> who told us that the substance was a bacterial growth that occurs in the
>> boundary layer between ethanol (after it absorbs enough water to separate
>> out of the gas) and the gasoline. I don=92t know if that is true or not.
> ***
>> *
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> We=92ve seen other engines that were operated on auto gas where the
>> internals were covered with a sticky black substance that looked and
>> smelled like caramelized sugar. We=92ve seen other aircraft where even n
> on
>> ethanol gas was dissolving the tank sealant.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> At one of our local stations here that advertised non ethanol gas I teste
> d
>> a sample (after my pickup truck began running poorly) and found the non
>> ethanol gas to contain about 20% ethanol. The station owners were unawar
> e
>> and apparently the delivery got screwed up and too much ethanol was added
>> at the terminal. ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> The point is that the quality of auto gas at the point of its dispensing
>> (the pump) is poorly controlled. Also, the effect of auto gas (with
>> today=92s ever changing mixture of additives) in aircraft engines has not
>> been extensively studied. I see some of the results of what seems in my
>> opinion to be an escalating problem but my opinion is not based on a very
>> large sample of properly collected data. I=92ve just seen the aftermath
> of
>> some of the contamination similar to what Bobby describes.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Pete****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *From:* owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:
>> owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *FLYaDIVE
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 22, 2012 6:28 AM
>> *To:* jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Re: Fuel Pressure****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Bobby:****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Ethanol does NOT make a transparent goop. ****
>>
>> Have you ever used or sealed your tanks with Silicone (RTV)? ****
>>
>> Have you ever used Teflon Tape on ANY fittings?****
>>
>> How OLD was the fuel? Old fuel, especially MoGas goes through quite a fe
> w
>> chemical changes and can clog up a system.****
>>
>> SHUTTING OFF the fuel valve WILL cut OFF the fuel flow and will create a
>> suction in the system so there should NOT be any free flow or great flow
> of
>> fuel. It is doing what a shout off valve is designed to do. THAT is why
>> you only got a two tablespoons of gas. Of course when you cracked the fu
> el
>> line the fuel ran down your are - - -You broke the suction, you made the
>> fuel flow.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Fuel residue a.k.a. varnish can be removed with MEK. ****
>>
>> - Get a glass jar****
>> - Remove the screen****
>> - Fill the jar with MEK****
>> - Soak the screen in the MEK for 5 minutes****
>> - Blow out the screen with air - From the inside out****
>> - SPECIAL NOTE - DOES THE SCREEN HAVE PLASTIC? OF SO MEK
>> WILL DESTROY THE PLASTIC/SCREEN****
>>
>> Now - If you have this goop in the gascolator screen - Don't you think yo
> u
>> would also have this goop INSIDE the carburetor!!! Don't Fly - CLEAN.***
> *
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> I would also FLUSH - BOTH - Tanks - And replace with fresh gas. Do you
>> have a center tank/header tank. If so, flush that also.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> You have a job ahead of you. ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Barry****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 5:54 PM, <BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net> wrote:****
>>
>> List
>> Today I determined to find out what caused the fuel pressure drop. I shut
>> off the fuel valve and drained only about 2 tablespoons full of fuel out
> of
>> the gascolator - which I thought a little odd. When I removed the
>> gascolator it was full of fuel. The quick drain was partly plugged but
>> nothing that I could see that would cause that - only a few tiny grit
>> particles that I picked up with a white rag. I then removed the gasket an
> d
>> screen and got fuel running down my elbow from downstream of the
>> gascolator. I wondered why it did not drain back thru the stainless steel
>> screen. I looked carefully at the screen in daylight and saw it was about
>> 80% blocked with a transparent goop that a degreaser had little effect on
> ..
>> I cleaned it further with soap and water but finally blew it back from th
> e
>> direction of flow and could see small particles flying off the screen as
>> the air nozzle hit it. I continued all around the screen until it was
>> clean.
>> I re-installed the screen and gascolator and ran up really good on both
>> tanks and then test flew.
>> My fuel pressure was back where it was and only dropped a little at full
>> throttle but never below 2.2 psi.
>> I believe the residue to be a left over of evaporated Ethanol fuel that
>> had been in my grandson's 5 gal. gas can for his Jon boat for over a year
> ..
>> I saw the goop in the bottom of the can and rinsed it. Thinking that was
>> sufficient. It was not. My engine failed after putting the 5 gal. of fres
> h
>> fuel in the left tank back in December. Luckily it quit on taxi out and I
>> found out what it was. I cleaned and drained the tanks several times and
>> thought I had it all out. Apparently it was enough residue to gradually
>> coat the fine strainer in the gascolator.
>> I will watch closely and clean regularly for the next few months to see i
> f
>> it returns.
>>
>> Thanks Again for all the helpful inputs
>>
>>
>> Bobby ( age 74 )
>> Zodiac 601 XL "B"
>> Jabiru 3300 S/N 1141
>> Sensenich 64" x 51" Prop
>> Bing Carb 260 Main & 285 Needle Jet
>> Status - Flying 154 hrs.
>>
>> ****
>>
>> * *
>>
>> * *
>>
>> *ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-L
> ist*
>>
>> *tp://forums.matronics.com*
>>
>> *_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>>
>> * *
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> * *
>>
>> * *
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List*
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>>
>> **
>>
>> * *
>>
>> *
>>
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