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Adding an electrical system

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speedy11(at)aol.com
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:15 pm Post subject: Adding an electrical system

I am adding an electrical system to a PT-22 per a customer's request.  It will consist of an overhauled Eclipse Y-150 starter, a RG battery, starter switch and contactor, a switched bus to power a Becker radio and transponder, a wind driven generator, and associated wiring.

 Does anyone have experience with adding electrical to a PT-22?

 Any gotchas?

 I can't find any generator or alternator that is approved for the PT engine, that's the reason for the wind generator.  It will only produce about 5 amps, so it will barely power the transponder and slowly recharge the battery and allow occasional radio transmission.

 Since I'm doing a form 337 for the change, I should be able to use any battery.  So, we're considering a PC-680 or a lithium ion battery such as the Aerovoltz.  Otherwise, we'll us a RG-35AXC.

 Comments?

 Thanks,

 Stan Sutterfield

 Port Orange, FL

  [quote][b]

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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:48 am Post subject: Adding an electrical system

At 11:14 PM 8/21/2012, you wrote:

 I am adding an electrical system to a PT-22 per a customer's request.  It will consist of an overhauled Eclipse Y-150 starter, a RG battery, starter switch and contactor, a switched bus to power a Becker radio and transponder, a wind driven generator, and associated wiring.

 Does anyone have experience with adding electrical to a PT-22?

 Any gotchas?



 I can't find any generator or alternator that is approved for the PT engine, that's the reason for the wind generator.  It will only produce about 5 amps, so it will barely power the transponder and slowly recharge the battery and allow occasional radio transmission.

 Since I'm doing a form 337 for the change, I should be able to use any battery.  So, we're considering a PC-680 or a lithium ion battery such as the Aerovoltz.  Otherwise, we'll us a RG-35AXC.



   What are your design goals for the installation and

   how do you envision it will be used operationally?

   Will this airplane be used for cross-country flight?

   Is it parked in a location serviced by AC mains power?



   Keep in mind that cranking an engine from the

   typical battery takes only 5% or so of that

   battery's capacity. Transponders take typically

   2 amps to operate when generating lots of replies.



   If I recall correctly, the Becker was designed

   for battery only ops in gliders. It's power

   demans are:



     Standby" reception mode £ 70 mA

     Reception mode £ 500 mA

     Transmission mode £ 2.5 A



   Energy demands for this instance are trivial.

   Further, it has a low voltage warning built

   in set to trigger at 10.5 volts.



  http://tinyurl.com/9upvqxg



   An RG-35 is a beast of a battery . . . 30+

   pounds as I recall. B&C did some cranking tests

   on the SMALLER cousin to the PC-680 and found

   that it would do a 10-blade crank of a high

   compression engine (aerobatic aircraft), 5

   times in a row (with about a minute cool down

   between events). The PC-680 should do better

   yet.



   How about NO generator, a PC-680 as the only

   battery and a Battery Minder plugged in while

   the airplane is parked?  Li-FePOH batteries

   are low risk because you're not going to charge

   it at a high rate while airborne . . . and it

   can be recharged at a benign rate while hangared.

   But take care also that you do not heavily discharge

   it between flights as they're more sensitive to

   deep cycle damage than their SVLA cousins.



 



 

   Bob . . .    [quote][b]

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Speedy11(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:50 am Post subject: Adding an electrical system

Bob,

 Your points are all well taken.

 But, the customer wants a complete electrical system installed including  some type of charging system.  I suggested to him that the demand on the  battery will be nominal for the short 1 hours flights he plans in the  airplane.  There will be no long distance flights.  I suggested a  battery only electrical system and charging the battery between flights.   But, he insists on a system with charging capability.  So, the only option  is to install an external wind generator for recharging.

 Do I need a voltage regulator for this setup?

  

 As mentioned, the airplane will be flown only occasionally and only  locally.  It will be in a flying museum in Chile.  We will  install a charging point for the battery so it can be maintained to full charge  between flights.

  

 I am considering the RG-35 battery only because it was used in a previous  337-approved PT-22 installation so reapproval will be much easier by using the  same battery.

  

 From my experience, a single PC-680 battery will just barely turn over  my IO-390.  I have two in the plane and have to connect both to get good  rotation of the engine.

 The PT-22 has a radial (not sure yet which one) and I'm not sure that the  PC-680 will have enough juice to spin it well.

  

 Since we are installing a starter on the engine, we can afford some weight  in the aft fuselage (behind seat) for the battery weight.

  

 I'm planning to use #2 wire from the battery forward.

  

 The power demands from the Becker radio and transponder are minimal.   Your numbers are for the VHF radio.

      Standby" reception mode  70 mA

      Reception mode  500 mA

     Transmission  mode  2.5 A

 The transponder requires only

     Standby - 0.3A

     Transmit  - 1.1A

 So, the inflight demand on the battery will be zero when the wind generator  is producing 5A.

  

 I agree that the RG-35AXC is a monster.  It is very heavy which  translates into extra weight for the stronger battery mount required.  What  do you think of using an Aerovoltz lithium battery?  It has about 550CCA  and shelf life is excellent (10% loss over one year).  Otherwise, I will  lean toward the PC-680 - or maybe a pair of them.

  

 The main concern overall for this installation is that the cranking power  must be sufficient to start the engine.  All other demands on the system  are achievable.

  

 More thoughts?

  

 Stan Sutterfield



  

  In a message dated 8/23/2012 3:01:37 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I am    adding an electrical system to a PT-22 per a 

customer's request.  It    will consist of an 

overhauled Eclipse Y-150 starter, a RG battery,    

starter switch and contactor, a switched bus to 

power a Becker radio    and transponder, a wind 

driven generator, and associated wiring.

Does    anyone have experience with adding electrical to a PT-22?

Any    gotchas?



I can't find any generator or alternator that is 

approved    for the PT engine, that's the reason for 

the wind generator.  It will    only produce about 5 

amps, so it will barely power the transponder and    

slowly recharge the battery and allow occasional radio    transmission.

Since I'm doing a form 337 for the change, I 

should be    able to use any battery.  So, we're 

considering a PC-680 or a lithium    ion battery 

such as the Aerovoltz.  Otherwise, we'll us a    RG-35AXC.



   What are your design goals for the installation    and

   how do you envision it will be used    operationally?

   Will this airplane be used for cross-country    flight?

   Is it parked in a location serviced by AC mains    power?



   Keep in mind that cranking an engine from    the

   typical battery takes only 5% or so of    that

   battery's capacity. Transponders take    typically

   2 amps to operate when generating lots of    replies.



   If I recall correctly, the Becker was    designed

   for battery only ops in gliders. It's    power

   demans are:



     Standby"    reception mode =A3 70 mA

     Reception mode =A3 500    mA

     Transmission mode =A3 2.5 A



      Energy demands for this instance are trivial.

   Further, it has    a low voltage warning built

   in set to trigger at 10.5    volts.



http://tinyurl.com/9upvqxg



   An RG-35 is a    beast of a battery . . . 30+

   pounds as I recall. B&C did    some cranking tests

   on the SMALLER cousin to the PC-680 and    found

   that it would do a 10-blade crank of a    high

   compression engine (aerobatic aircraft),    5

   times in a row (with about a minute cool    down

   between events). The PC-680 should do    better

   yet.



   How about NO generator, a    PC-680 as the only

   battery and a Battery Minder plugged in    while

   the airplane is parked?  Li-FePOH    batteries

   are low risk because you're not going to    charge

   it at a high rate while airborne . . . and    it

   can be recharged at a benign rate while    hangared.

   But take care also that you do not heavily    discharge

   it between flights as they're more sensitive    to

   deep cycle damage than their SVLA    cousins.

   Bob . . .  



	


 [quote][b]

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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:12 am Post subject: Adding an electrical system

 	  Quote: 	
		    

 More thoughts? 	


   Sounds like you have a plan. 5A applied to

   an RG35 probably doesn't represent much of

   an OV risk. But it would be easy to add

   crowbar protection right on the b-lead

   breaker.



 

   Bob . . .    [quote][b]

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