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Mooney Alternator woes

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recapen(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:27 am Post subject: Mooney Alternator woes

My hangar neighbor is trying to figure out why his alternator occasionally drops off line - requiring a weird reset sequence.  He has to shut off the battery and field, then go to a low power setting and bring it back up again.  Something about resetting an overvoltage protection device.



It is an M20S with Cont 550 and gear driven alternator.  The first regulator lasted only a couple of years before giving up the ghost and the replacement was a special from Mooney.



My first line of thinking is to locate the regulator and test it.  Nobody knows where it is hiding.

(I'm in DC - the plane is in DE...I'll be home next weekend to help more.)



Meanwhile, does anyone have an electronic copy of the Light Plane Maintenance article on troubleshooting alternators...and the Mooney M20S maintenance manual?



If we can find it, I'm hoping that we can determine if the regulator is the culprit.



Thanks in advance,

Ralph

RV6A N822AR in N06 - waiting for my engine/prop to come back from overhaul after being hit by a flying hangar door!

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:45 am Post subject: Mooney Alternator woes

At 08:27 AM 8/16/2012, you wrote:


<recapen(at)earthlink.net>



My hangar neighbor is trying to figure out why his alternator 

occasionally drops off line - requiring a weird reset sequence.  He 

has to shut off the battery and field, then go to a low power setting 

and bring it back up again.  Something about resetting an overvoltage 

protection device.



It is an M20S with Cont 550 and gear driven alternator.  The first 

regulator lasted only a couple of years before giving up the ghost 

and the replacement was a special from Mooney.



My first line of thinking is to locate the regulator and test 

it.  Nobody knows where it is hiding.

(I'm in DC - the plane is in DE...I'll be home next weekend to help more.)



Meanwhile, does anyone have an electronic copy of the Light Plane 

Maintenance article on troubleshooting alternators...and the Mooney 

M20S maintenance manual?



If we can find it, I'm hoping that we can determine if the regulator 

is the culprit.



   If it takes a southern Slobovian switch-dance to

   bring it back on line, it's almost certain to be

   something electronic. Is the successful reset sequence

   something different than what is called for in the

   POH as a response to an OV trip?



   I've not had any contact with Mooney in 25+ years. I

   bid an alternator controller for them while at

   Electro-Mech . . . we didn't get the job. I think

   Electrodelta out of White Oak, TX got it. It would

   have been a Mooney-unique product. ED has changed

   hands and/or moved several times over the years.

   The guy who ran ED is still hanging around the

   Wichita area. He MIGHT be a resource for help

   wrestling with your problem.



   The LPM article is not likely to be much help. It

   will be VERY generic. If it were my airplane, I'd

   jeep another regulator in place of the original to

   see if the problem goes away. Given the rarity of

   that regulator, I'd probably go for a one-time

   STC to install something more contemporary and

   available. There's nothing magic about alternator

   controllers . . . only the institutionalized and

   market driven B.S. in which they reside.



   B&C regulators are used elsewhere on current production

   airplanes . . . the FAA might look kindly upon

   substitution of B&C product for what's already

   installed.



   Bob . . .

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:55 am Post subject: Mooney Alternator woes

There are a couple Mooney email lists that have experts that likely can 

help, including factory tech support. The S model isn't all that old, so 

there should be good info available.

Mapalist mailing list..which requires membership in MAPA.

Mapalist(at)lists.mooneypilots.com <mailto:Mapalist(at)lists.mooneypilots.com>

http://lists.mooneypilots.com/listinfo.cgi/mapalist-mooneypilots.com 

<http://lists.mooneypilots.com/listinfo.cgi/mapalist-mooneypilots.com>



Mooney Tech list which is open to all:

http://lists.aviating.com/mailman/listinfo/mooney-tech, 

mailto:mooney-tech-request(at)aviating.com?subject=subscribe



On 8/16/2012 6:44 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>



 At 08:27 AM 8/16/2012, you wrote:

 

 <recapen(at)earthlink.net>



 My hangar neighbor is trying to figure out why his alternator 

 occasionally drops off line - requiring a weird reset sequence. He has 

 to shut off the battery and field, then go to a low power setting and 

 bring it back up again.  Something about resetting an overvoltage 

 protection device.



 It is an M20S with Cont 550 and gear driven alternator.  The first 

 regulator lasted only a couple of years before giving up the ghost and 

 the replacement was a special from Mooney.



 My first line of thinking is to locate the regulator and test it. 

 Nobody knows where it is hiding.

 (I'm in DC - the plane is in DE...I'll be home next weekend to help 

 more.)



 Meanwhile, does anyone have an electronic copy of the Light Plane 

 Maintenance article on troubleshooting alternators...and the Mooney 

 M20S maintenance manual?



 If we can find it, I'm hoping that we can determine if the regulator 

 is the culprit.



   If it takes a southern Slobovian switch-dance to

   bring it back on line, it's almost certain to be

   something electronic. Is the successful reset sequence

   something different than what is called for in the

   POH as a response to an OV trip?



   I've not had any contact with Mooney in 25+ years. I

   bid an alternator controller for them while at

   Electro-Mech . . . we didn't get the job. I think

   Electrodelta out of White Oak, TX got it. It would

   have been a Mooney-unique product. ED has changed

   hands and/or moved several times over the years.

   The guy who ran ED is still hanging around the

   Wichita area. He MIGHT be a resource for help

   wrestling with your problem.



   The LPM article is not likely to be much help. It

   will be VERY generic. If it were my airplane, I'd

   jeep another regulator in place of the original to

   see if the problem goes away. Given the rarity of

   that regulator, I'd probably go for a one-time

   STC to install something more contemporary and

   available. There's nothing magic about alternator

   controllers . . . only the institutionalized and

   market driven B.S. in which they reside.



   B&C regulators are used elsewhere on current production

   airplanes . . . the FAA might look kindly upon

   substitution of B&C product for what's already

   installed.



   Bob . . .






	


-----

No virus found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

recapen(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:04 am Post subject: Mooney Alternator woes

Thanks - first step is find the installed regulator.  I could probably sub-in the B&C one from my 6A on a temp basis to see if it works - that'll be a good starting place...good idea.



I'll ask about the reset sequence to see if it is in the POH.

--

recapen(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:04 am Post subject: Mooney Alternator woes

Thanks - we'll sign up for them as a resource.

--

recapen(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:47 am Post subject: Mooney Alternator woes

Will my B&C LR3C-14 regulator properly control the Continental's alternator?  I can easily set this up for a ground-run test....



Are there different regulators based on current output capability?



Thanks again!

--

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:41 am Post subject: Mooney Alternator woes

At 10:45 AM 8/17/2012, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

<recapen(at)earthlink.net>



Will my B&C LR3C-14 regulator properly control the Continental's 

alternator?  I can easily set this up for a ground-run test....


	


   Yes



 	  Quote: 	
		  Are there different regulators based on current output capability?


	


   Generally no. The smallest of 35A alternators draws

   about 3A max . . . so does a 100A machine. There's

   an advantage for keeping field currents low (control

   of internally dissipated heat). Larger machines just

   get more magnetic flux by more turns of larger wire

   and keeping the field current manageable.



   Further, unlike generators, the closed loop dynamics

   of alternators fall into a much smaller universe of

   characteristics such that regulators can be quite

   generic. The B&C linear regulator was optimized for

   the B&C alternators and may not be as nimble footed

   for transient response on a 'foreign' alternator but

   not bad enough to raise risk for the success of the

   experiment.



   Bob . . .

glastar(at)gmx.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 2:59 pm Post subject: Mooney Alternator woes

 	  Quote: 	
		  > Will my B&C LR3C-14 regulator properly control the Continental's

> alternator?  I can easily set this up for a ground-run test....



    Yes



Just wonder, Ralph you've told, that your B&C is from a RV-6? That would 
	


probably be a 14V system where the Mooney has a 28V System, just 

carefully check.



Cheers Werner

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:45 am Post subject: Mooney Alternator woes

At 05:58 PM 8/17/2012, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

>>Will my B&C LR3C-14 regulator properly control the Continental's

>>alternator?  I can easily set this up for a ground-run test....

>

>    Yes

Just wonder, Ralph you've told, that your B&C is from a RV-6? That 

would probably be a 14V system where the Mooney has a 28V System, 

just carefully check.

   Excellent catch Werner! I didn't perceived he was talking

   about an LR3C-14, of course he would need the -28. Thanks!

   Bob . . .

recapen(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:28 am Post subject: Mooney Alternator woes

Thanks - I joined both lists and have posted my question there.



--

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