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Thoughts and reasons for the Evoution of a Design.

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nick(at)flylightning.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:13 pm Post subject: Thoughts and reasons for the Evoution of a Design.

Group,

 

I have been getting a lot of emails and questions about the MK2 horizontal tail since it was released. Mostly these are one on one conversations on the phone or at airshows.  I thought I would write those down for someone to read if they wanted. I am sure this will stir some more questions and that is great I always like talking planes, and the Lightning the most. I think this forum is the best place for it. 

 

Please keep in mind, I am not an English major, I think most anyone who has read the build manual knows that, but it gets the job done. These are just my thoughts on it, hopefully in an organized manner.

 

Also I hope everyone has had a Chance to Read the Kit Planes September 2012 article. It basically sums up what I have written from a Marc Cook. 

 

Our Mark has said it is possible to post this article to the Facebook page. I am also going to get it up on the web site as well so it does not get lost.

 

As promised we have designed a set of tail cuffs for those wanting to upgrade. We should have several sets in our shop by the middle of next week for anyone wanting to have that installation done for them. 

I am writing an install guide for the cuffs. I should have it done next week and posted for those wanting to do it at home.

 

Thanks

 

Nick Otterback

Arion Aircraft LLC

R&D Technical Support

931-680-1781

nick(at)flylightning.net (nick(at)flylightning.net)

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n45bm(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 7:15 pm Post subject: Thoughts and reasons for the Evoution of a Design.

Hi Nick,

Some designers solve this problem by using strakes at the leading edge of the horizontal tail, I believe. I suppose if someone feels their tail needs more authority, they may consider this method too. Food for thought.

Bernardo

Kit #110



--- On Fri, 9/14/12, Nick Otterback <nick(at)flylightning.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Nick Otterback <nick(at)flylightning.net>

Subject: Thoughts and reasons for the Evoution of a Design.

To: Lightning-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Friday, September 14, 2012, 3:12 PM

Group,

  

I have been getting a lot of emails and questions about the MK2 horizontal tail since it was released. Mostly these are one on one conversations on the phone or at airshows.  I thought I would write those down for someone to read if they wanted. I am sure this will stir some more questions and that is great I always like talking planes, and the Lightning the most. I think this forum is the best place for it. 

  

Please keep in mind, I am not an English major, I think most anyone who has read the build manual knows that, but it gets the job done. These are just my thoughts on it, hopefully in an organized manner.

  

Also  I hope everyone has had a Chance to Read the Kit Planes September 2012 article. It basically sums up what I have written from a Marc Cook. 

  

Our Mark has said it is possible to post this article to the Facebook page. I am also going to get it up on the web site as well so it does not get lost.

  

As promised we have designed a set of tail cuffs for those wanting to upgrade. We should have several sets in our shop by the middle of next week for anyone wanting to have that installation done for them. 

I am writing an install guide for the cuffs. I should have it done next week and posted for those wanting to do it at home.

  

Thanks

  

Nick Otterback

Arion Aircraft LLC

R&D Technical Support

931-680-1781

[url=/mc/compose?to=nick(at)flylightning.net]nick(at)flylightning.net[/url]

  

	
 [quote][b]

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nick(at)flylightning.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:34 am Post subject: Thoughts and reasons for the Evoution of a Design.

Strakes clean up airflow and direct it where you want if you have a airstream problem around the fuse or elsewhere. Yes the biproduct is slightly better stability and low speed handling. For the purpose we were aiming at a larger tail and constant cord airfoil was really the answer.

Nick



Sent from my pocket 

On Sep 14, 2012, at 10:15 PM, "Bernard Melendez, Jr." <n45bm(at)yahoo.com (n45bm(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:



[quote]Hi Nick,

Some designers solve this problem by using strakes at the leading edge of the horizontal tail, I believe. I suppose if someone feels their tail needs more authority, they may consider this method too. Food for thought.

Bernardo

Kit #110



--- On Fri, 9/14/12, Nick Otterback <nick(at)flylightning.net (nick(at)flylightning.net)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Nick Otterback <nick(at)flylightning.net (nick(at)flylightning.net)>

Subject: Thoughts and reasons for the Evoution of a Design.

To: [url=mailto:Lightning-list(at)matronics.com]Lightning-list(at)matronics.com (Lightning-list(at)matronics.com)[/url]

Date: Friday, September 14, 2012, 3:12 PM

Group,

  

I have been getting a lot of emails and questions about the MK2 horizontal tail since it was released. Mostly these are one on one conversations on the phone or at airshows.  I thought I would write those down for someone to read if they wanted. I am sure this will stir some more questions and that is great I always like talking planes, and the Lightning the most. I think this forum is the best place for it. 

  

Please keep in mind, I am not an English major, I think most anyone who has read the build manual knows that, but it gets the job done. These are just my thoughts on it, hopefully in an organized manner.

  

Also  I hope everyone has had a Chance to Read the Kit Planes September 2012 article. It basically sums up what I have written from a Marc Cook. 

  

Our Mark has said it is possible to post this article to the Facebook page. I am also going to get it up on the web site as well so it does not get lost.

  

As promised we have designed a set of tail cuffs for those wanting to upgrade. We should have several sets in our shop by the middle of next week for anyone wanting to have that installation done for them. 

I am writing an install guide for the cuffs. I should have it done next week and posted for those wanting to do it at home.

  

Thanks

  

Nick Otterback

Arion Aircraft LLC

R&D Technical Support

931-680-1781

nick(at)flylightning.net (nick(at)flylightning.net)

  

	
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N1BZRich(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:40 pm Post subject: Thoughts and reasons for the Evoution of a Design.

Nick, 

 Excellent rundown on the new evolutionary stabilizer for the Light  Sport Lightning. It will help a lot of people understand the Arion business  philosophy of having the best possible product in terms of performance, handling  characteristics, economy, and obviously looks. Yes, I still think the Lightning  is the best looking aircraft available either for the Light Sport market or the  EAB market. Keep up the great work.

  

 But for past and future customers, please don't think that this stabilizer  change is to "solve a problem". I think Nick was very clear in his article. This  design change is evolutionary. If you are used to flying airplanes with a sporty  feel that are very responsive, you probably really like the way the original  Lightning flies. I know I do. But if you would prefer a more conventional feel  and response rate, then you might think about modifying your Lightning to this  new stabilizer. 

  

 I have not flown the new demo Lightning with the new stab yet, but I look  forward to flying it just before the annual Lightning Homecoming and Fly-In on  the weekend of 6 October. Heck, it is the only Lightning version that I haven't  flown - so far. From the very first Lightning wing on an Esqual fuselage (the  Frankensqual), then the original Lightning prototype, and since then every demo  experimental and Light Sport Lightning they have built, I've had the extreme  pleasure of flying them all. And I'm convinced it is one super airplane.

 Blue Skies,

 Buz

 PS: Hope to see everyone at SYI for the Lightning Fly-In in three  weeks.



  

  

 On Sep 14, 2012, at 10:15 PM, "Bernard Melendez, Jr." <n45bm(at)yahoo.com (n45bm(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

   	  Quote: 	
		     

    	  Quote: 	
		                                   Hi Nick,

Some designers solve this problem by using            strakes at the leading edge of the horizontal tail, I believe. I            suppose if someone feels their tail needs more authority, they may            consider this method too. Food for thought.

Bernardo

Kit            #110



--- On Fri, 9/14/12, Nick Otterback <nick(at)flylightning.net (nick(at)flylightning.net)>            wrote:

            	  Quote: 	
		  

From:              Nick Otterback <nick(at)flylightning.net (nick(at)flylightning.net)>

Subject:              Thoughts and reasons for the Evoution of a              Design.

To: [url=mailto:Lightning-list(at)matronics.com]Lightning-list(at)matronics.com (Lightning-list(at)matronics.com)[/url]

Date:              Friday, September 14, 2012, 3:12 PM



                                                                  

Group,             

              

I have been getting a lot of emails              and questions about the MK2 horizontal tail since it was released.              Mostly these are one on one conversations on the phone or at              airshows.  I thought I would write those down for someone to              read if they wanted. I am sure this will stir some more questions              and that is great I always like talking planes, and the Lightning              the most. I think this forum is the best place for it.              

              

Please keep in mind, I am not an              English major, I think most anyone who has read the build manual              knows that, but it gets the job done. These are just my thoughts on              it, hopefully in an organized manner.             

              

Also I hope everyone has had a              Chance to Read the Kit Planes September 2012 article. It basically              sums up what I have written from a Marc Cook.              

              

Our Mark has said it is possible to              post this article to the Facebook page. I am also going to get it up              on the web site as well so it does not get lost.             

              

As promised we have designed a set              of tail cuffs for those wanting to upgrade. We should have several              sets in our shop by the middle of next week for anyone wanting to              have that installation done for them.              

I am writing an install guide for              the cuffs. I should have it done next week and posted for those              wanting to do it at home.             

              

Thanks             

              

Nick Otterback             

Arion Aircraft LLC             

R&D Technical Support             

931-680-1781             

[url=mailto:nick(at)flylightning.net]nick(at)flylightning.net (nick(at)flylightning.net)[/url]             

 

	
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selwyn

Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 102
Location: Australia

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:03 pm Post subject: Re: Thoughts and reasons for the Evoution of a Design.

Hi Nick, 

A couple of queries on this.  Some Lightnings tend to run out of nose up trim on approach with flap.  Working from the descriptions in your article suggests that the trim forces will be reduced and less trim tab power  required.  Is that the case in practice?



If I read you correctly, you talk about "significantly less elevator throw for the same stick movement" which implies that you are changing the gearing in the elevator circuit.  What changes are made here?



Finally, do you consider this mod would have similar effects on the short wing aeroplane?  I do a lot of long cross countries in mine and, while lovely to fly, a little more trim stability would be nice on those 500 mile legs without an autopilot.

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_________________
Cheers, Selwyn
Kit 66 VH-ELZ

nick(at)flylightning.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:36 am Post subject: Thoughts and reasons for the Evoution of a Design.

Selwyn,



I will answer the questions by point asked for simplicity.



1. yes some run out because the CG is forward when single pilot or low fuel,

and the trim tab size is smaller to keep trailing edge weight down.  A

better way to look at it is that with the elevator being more effective with

the large stab the tab doesn't have to work as hard, so I guess yes less

trim force. Although is requires more trim changes, ie from climb to cruise

to landing than before, the tab is more effective. 



2.  We did not change the gearing. We changed the stops. So I can post some

pictures of what we did. But we set full up travel with the stick full up

stop at about 15 degrees. Than build a new down stop that limits to 15

degrees down. The stick movement stays relatively the same as before making

it less sensitive.



3. Yes it should be more effective with the short wing. The lower aspect

ratio has less pitching moment so the stabilizing effect should be better,

although I have yet to fly one with short wing and a MK2 tail. If no one

else does we should know how this works in a few months here.



One other topic from an earlier email. The Stick free stability is very

good. That is what Marc Cook from kitplanes was testing, that is typically

what I test because it is worse case and more real world application.  



Thanks



Nick Otterback

Arion Aircraft LLC

R&D Technical Support

931-680-1781

nick(at)flylightning.net



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selwyn

Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 102
Location: Australia

Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: Thoughts and reasons for the Evoution of a Design.

Hi Nick,

Thanks for those comments.  I confess to getting a little lost in the answer to my first query, I think I've understood but to be sure I'll simplify the question.  If I modify an existing aeroplane to the new tail is it less likely to run out of nose up trim on approach?



I agree that the stick free stability is the appropriate measure for cruise operations.  In the current aeroplane this is quite low which makes the thing very light and responsive and a delight to fly but perhaps a little more stability is desirable in a cross country weapon.  These things are a matter of personal preference and intended use and the ability to adjust this behavior with such a simple mod just adds to the overall appeal of the Lightning.



Do you have a photo or line drawing of the plan view of the whole aeroplane with the Mk2 tail to give an appreciation of the aesthetics of the new shape?

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_________________
Cheers, Selwyn
Kit 66 VH-ELZ

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