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Silicone Hoses for the Rotax 912 / 914

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Alan Carter

Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 378
Location: Kent, England.

Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:25 pm Post subject: Silicone Hoses for the Rotax 912 / 914

Hello All

I have seen the advert for replacement Silicone Hoses for the Rotax 912/914.

I can not find any details or photo,s on Google, has any one fitted the new hoses and what is the cost of a full set for the Europa.

Alan

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:57 pm Post subject: Silicone Hoses for the Rotax 912 / 914

Alan,



I have installed a set of the silicone hoses and they work great.  You can see pictures of the hoses and their installation in my build diary:



http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=66265&g2_page=4



Blue skies & tailwinds,

Bob Borger

Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.

Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP

3705 Lynchburg Dr.

Corinth, TX  76208-5331

Cel: 817-992-1117

rlborger(at)mac.com



On Sep 16, 2012, at 3:25 PM, Alan Carter <alancarteresq(at)onetel.net> wrote:






Hello All

I have seen the advert for replacement Silicone Hoses for the Rotax 912/914.

I can not find any details or photo,s on Google, has any one fitted the new hoses and what is the cost of a full set for the Europa.

Alan

Alan Carter

Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 378
Location: Kent, England.

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:19 am Post subject: Re: Silicone Hoses for the Rotax 912 / 914

Hello rlborger.

1.Thanks for photo,s, the complete set counted from your photo,s seem to be eight hoses in total.

2.I notice that the hoses are thinner than the rubber ones , do you know of the advantages of Silicone do they last longer?,

In your photo,s the rubber ones look more sturdy in appearance .

3. The hose clips, see you use the spring type and not the screw up type.

is there a reason for this.

4. How long in time does a complete hose change take on average.

5.What did the silicone hoses cost approx.

I checked the price of the Rotax 5 year rubber change kit, yesterday and was told Â£605  $985

  



Alan

paul.the.aviator(at)gmail
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:00 am Post subject: Silicone Hoses for the Rotax 912 / 914

Hello Alan,



I can answer some of your questions:



There are hoses for each cylinder head and two larger diameter hoses that go to the coolant radiator.



I can't say what the expected life of the hoses are, however if you keep them free of oil or gasoline then I expect that these would last the life of your engine.  Mine are not showing any signs of deterioration after 4 years

 

The CTC clips are highly desirable.  They allow for expansion and contraction due to temperature. In my case, my hanger is not heated so the aircraft can get down to -15c or lower.



All but one of the hoses are easy to change. One of the hoses on the underneath is difficult and I don't know an easy way to changing it.  Perhaps others on the forum could help.

 

Paul



On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 8:19 AM, Alan Carter <alancarteresq(at)onetel.net (alancarteresq(at)onetel.net)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq(at)onetel.net (alancarteresq(at)onetel.net)>

 

 Hello rlborger.

 1.Thanks for photo,s, the complete set counted from your photo,s seem to be eight hoses in total.

 2.I notice that the hoses are thinner than the rubber ones , do you know of the advantages of Silicone do they last longer?,

 In your photo,s the rubber ones look more sturdy in appearance .

 3. The hose clips, see you use the spring type and not the screw up type.

 is there a reason for this.

 4. How long in time does a complete hose change take on average.

 5.What did the silicone hoses cost approx.

 I checked the price of the Rotax 5 year rubber change kit, yesterday and was told £605  $985

 

 

 Alan

	


 



  [quote][b]

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:21 am Post subject: Silicone Hoses for the Rotax 912 / 914

Hi Alan,



1. You are welcome.  Yes, there were 8 hoses shipped, including the two hoses for the intercooler.  Some of these are cut to length for shorter hose.  The intercooler hoses must be cut to fit.  If you do not have an intercooler, you'll jus have a single hose from the turbo to the airbox.  



2. The silicone hose is virtually permanent and should never require replacement.  The rubber are not more sturdy.  They will degrade over time and MUST be replaced on a regular basis.



3. The coolant hose require spring clips as the coolant fixtures to which the hose attach, expand and contract with the coolant temperature.  If you use a screw clamp and tighten it fully when cold when the engine warms up, the fixture expands and forces the hose into the screw clamp.  This causes eventual cutting and failure of the hose.  If you adjust the screw clamp when the engine is warm, then the fixture shrinks when it cools, it becomes loose and leaks.  The spring clamps are constant tension clamps which account for the expansion and contraction of the fittings keeping things properly tight.



4. Depends on what stage in the build.  I believe you are working on a completed, flying aircraft.  It will take you longer as you will have to do some disassembly to get at the hose fittings and then reassemble things after the hoses have been replaced.  I'd bet that the disassembly/reassembly takes longer than the actual hose replacement which is pretty quick, half hour to an hour maybe.  Since I'm not familiar with your aircraft and engine installation, I can only make a very wild guess as to how long the disassembly/reassembly might take.  Probably you could accomplish the total task in 1 or 2 days if you are very good with tools and have everything you need at hand.  Is there another Europaphile anywhere near you who has done this task and could assist you.  Probably make things go a lot quicker.



5.  That was five years ago.  I do not remember.  Contact Stepahn Ingemarson, he'll give you a current quote.



For £605  $985, I'd check with Stephan.  If you are going to have to replace the hoses anyway, why not do it right and go silicone.



Blue skies & tailwinds,

Bob Borger

Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.

Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP

3705 Lynchburg Dr.

Corinth, TX  76208-5331

Cel: 817-992-1117

rlborger(at)mac.com



On Sep 17, 2012, at 8:19 AM, Alan Carter <alancarteresq(at)onetel.net> wrote:






Hello rlborger.

1.Thanks for photo,s, the complete set counted from your photo,s seem to be eight hoses in total.

2.I notice that the hoses are thinner than the rubber ones , do you know of the advantages of Silicone do they last longer?,

In your photo,s the rubber ones look more sturdy in appearance .

3. The hose clips, see you use the spring type and not the screw up type.

is there a reason for this.

4. How long in time does a complete hose change take on average.

5.What did the silicone hoses cost approx.

I checked the price of the Rotax 5 year rubber change kit, yesterday and was told Â£605  $985

Alan

kevinmarie(at)blueyonder.
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:43 am Post subject: Silicone Hoses for the Rotax 912 / 914

I have fitted a whole set they are great about 200â‚¬ if I remember correctly.



Kevin Challis

On 16 Sep 2012, at 22:25, "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq(at)onetel.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Hello All

 I have seen the advert for replacement Silicone Hoses for the Rotax 912/914.

 I can not find any details or photo,s on Google, has any one fitted the new hoses and what is the cost of a full set for the Europa.

 Alan

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383251#383251

churchy

Joined: 04 Nov 2011
Posts: 48

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:17 am Post subject: Silicone Hoses for the Rotax 912 / 914

Bob



Thanks for sharing all that learning. I am also contemplating the silicon hoses and I have the add on carb heaters which require coolant water round their jackets. Do you have those too and if so do you need extra hose to connect those or is there enough n the kit?



Richard CC



On 17 Sep 2012, at 15:21, Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Hi Alan,

 

 1. You are welcome.  Yes, there were 8 hoses shipped, including the two hoses for the intercooler.  Some of these are cut to length for shorter hose.  The intercooler hoses must be cut to fit.  If you do not have an intercooler, you'll jus have a single hose from the turbo to the airbox.  

 

 2. The silicone hose is virtually permanent and should never require replacement.  The rubber are not more sturdy.  They will degrade over time and MUST be replaced on a regular basis.

 

 3. The coolant hose require spring clips as the coolant fixtures to which the hose attach, expand and contract with the coolant temperature.  If you use a screw clamp and tighten it fully when cold when the engine warms up, the fixture expands and forces the hose into the screw clamp.  This causes eventual cutting and failure of the hose.  If you adjust the screw clamp when the engine is warm, then the fixture shrinks when it cools, it becomes loose and leaks.  The spring clamps are constant tension clamps which account for the expansion and contraction of the fittings keeping things properly tight.

 

 4. Depends on what stage in the build.  I believe you are working on a completed, flying aircraft.  It will take you longer as you will have to do some disassembly to get at the hose fittings and then reassemble things after the hoses have been replaced.  I'd bet that the disassembly/reassembly takes longer than the actual hose replacement which is pretty quick, half hour to an hour maybe.  Since I'm not familiar with your aircraft and engine installation, I can only make a very wild guess as to how long the disassembly/reassembly might take.  Probably you could accomplish the total task in 1 or 2 days if you are very good with tools and have everything you need at hand.  Is there another Europaphile anywhere near you who has done this task and could assist you.  Probably make things go a lot quicker.

 

 5.  That was five years ago.  I do not remember.  Contact Stepahn Ingemarson, he'll give you a current quote.

 

 For Â£605  $985, I'd check with Stephan.  If you are going to have to replace the hoses anyway, why not do it right and go silicone.

 

 Blue skies & tailwinds,

 Bob Borger

 Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.

 Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP

 3705 Lynchburg Dr.

 Corinth, TX  76208-5331

 Cel: 817-992-1117

 rlborger(at)mac.com

 

 On Sep 17, 2012, at 8:19 AM, Alan Carter <alancarteresq(at)onetel.net> wrote:

 

 

 

 Hello rlborger.

 1.Thanks for photo,s, the complete set counted from your photo,s seem to be eight hoses in total.

 2.I notice that the hoses are thinner than the rubber ones , do you know of the advantages of Silicone do they last longer?,

 In your photo,s the rubber ones look more sturdy in appearance .

 3. The hose clips, see you use the spring type and not the screw up type.

 is there a reason for this.

 4. How long in time does a complete hose change take on average.

 5.What did the silicone hoses cost approx.

 I checked the price of the Rotax 5 year rubber change kit, yesterday and was told Ã‚Â£605  $985

 

 

 Alan

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:37 am Post subject: Silicone Hoses for the Rotax 912 / 914

Richard,



I do not have the carb heaters on my engine so I can not help with this question.



I suggest you contact Stepahn Ingemarsson and ask him.  Perhaps he can provide additional hose if it is needed.



Blue skies & tailwinds,

Bob Borger

Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.

Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP

3705 Lynchburg Dr.

Corinth, TX  76208-5331

Cel: 817-992-1117

rlborger(at)mac.com



On Sep 17, 2012, at 10:16 AM, RCC Sky Mail <richard.churchill-coleman(at)sky.com> wrote:






Bob



Thanks for sharing all that learning. I am also contemplating the silicon hoses and I have the add on carb heaters which require coolant water round their jackets. Do you have those too and if so do you need extra hose to connect those or is there enough n the kit?



Richard CC

frans(at)privatepilots.nl
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:04 am Post subject: Silicone Hoses for the Rotax 912 / 914

On 09/17/2012 05:16 PM, RCC Sky Mail wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Thanks for sharing all that learning. I am also contemplating the

 silicon hoses and I have the add on carb heaters which require

 coolant water round their jackets.


	


Just do a search for "silicon hoses" on google (or better yet,

www.startpage.com wich has the same results but doesn't abuse your

search words for marketing purposes) and you will see that you can get

silicone hoses in all sizes, dimensions and configurations you want.

Basically, for a Rotax you need one meter (3 feet) of straight 16mm

hose, and one 90 degree elbow. For the carb heat I guess you need to

have T-pieces, which again you can order in any configuration and colour.



Frans

zwakie

Joined: 03 Aug 2009
Posts: 157

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:17 am Post subject: Re: Silicone Hoses for the Rotax 912 / 914

Richard, 



Stefan I. has informed me that as of a few weeks ago, the silicon hoses are  available for the carb heater. He will deliver 6mm reinfored silicon hose in 1 meter lengths for that, I do not have price for that available however.



A normal set (without the carb heat) was quoted to me recently for a little over â‚¬ 300 (my plane is a classic, if I remember correctly the set for an XS was just under â‚¬ 300)

_________________
Marcel Zwakenberg
Europa XS TG || 912ULS || PH-SBR

mau11(at)free.fr
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:39 am Post subject: Silicone Hoses for the Rotax 912 / 914

Hello,

 I use carb heater on my 912 during 9 years, and now 4 years on my 912S the  durit is original supply by Skydrive, without problem. 

 It is not silicone durit.

 Michel AUVRAY

  

    

  

   From: Robert Borger (rlborger(at)mac.com)

 Date: 2012-09-17 20:36

 To: europa-list (europa-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: Re: Silicone Hoses for the Rotax 912  / 914

  --> Europa-List message posted by: Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com>

  

 Richard,

  

 I do not have the carb heaters on my engine so I can not help with this question.

  

 I suggest you contact Stepahn Ingemarsson and ask him.  Perhaps he can provide additional hose if it is needed.

  

 Blue skies & tailwinds,

 Bob Borger

 Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.

 Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP

 3705 Lynchburg Dr.

 Corinth, TX  76208-5331

 Cel: 817-992-1117

 rlborger(at)mac.com

  

 On Sep 17, 2012, at 10:16 AM, RCC Sky Mail <richard.churchill-coleman(at)sky.com> wrote:

  

 --> Europa-List message posted by: RCC Sky Mail <richard.churchill-coleman(at)sky.com>

  

 Bob

  

 Thanks for sharing all that learning. I am also contemplating the silicon hoses and I have the add on carb heaters which require coolant water round their jackets. Do you have those too and if so do you need extra hose to connect those or is there enough n the kit?

  

 Richard CC

  

  

 ======================================

 sp;The Europa-List Email Forum -

 avigator to browse

 bsp;List Un/Subscription,

 bsp;Browse, Chat, FAQ,

 ?Europa-List

 ======================================

 p;    - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -

 ;via the Web Forums!

 ======================================

 p;  - List Contribution Web Site -

 ;support!

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 ion

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   [quote][b]

kheindl(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:43 pm Post subject: Silicone Hoses for the Rotax 912 / 914

Michel,



Did you ever have a need to switch on the carb heat, or is it on permanently ?

I am contemplating removing mine again . It was only installed because of regulations, and yet I notice that factory built aircraft in Canada don't have the heater.

Karl



Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 21:38:12 +0200

From: mau11(at)free.fr

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: Europa-List: Re: Silicone Hoses for the Rotax 912 / 914



       Hello,

 I use carb heater on my 912 during 9 years, and now 4 years on my 912S the  durit is original supply by Skydrive, without problem. 

 It is not silicone durit.

 Michel AUVRAY

  

    

  

   From: Robert Borger (rlborger(at)mac.com)

 Date: 2012-09-17 20:36

 To: europa-list (europa-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: Re: Silicone Hoses for the Rotax 912  / 914

  --> Europa-List message posted by: Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com>

  

 Richard,

  

 I do not have the carb heaters on my engine so I can not help with this question.

  

 I suggest you contact Stepahn Ingemarsson and ask him.  Perhaps he can provide additional hose if it is needed.

  

 Blue skies & tailwinds,

 Bob Borger

 Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.

 Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP

 3705 Lynchburg Dr.

 Corinth, TX  76208-5331

 Cel: 817-992-1117

 rlborger(at)mac.com

  

 On Sep 17, 2012, at 10:16 AM, RCC Sky Mail <richard.churchill-coleman(at)sky.com> wrote:

  

 --> Europa-List message posted by: RCC Sky Mail <richard.churchill-coleman(at)sky.com>

  

 Bob

  

 Thanks for sharing all that learning. I am also contemplating the silicon hoses and I have the add on carb heaters which require coolant water round their jackets. Do you have those too and if so do you need extra hose to connect those or is there enough n the kit?

  

 Richard CC

  

  

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[b]

kevinmarie(at)blueyonder.
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:30 pm Post subject: Silicone Hoses for the Rotax 912 / 914

The carb heaters need extra hose but I got these on eBay quite cheap.



Kevin Challis

G ODJG



On 17 Sep 2012, at 17:16, RCC Sky Mail <richard.churchill-coleman(at)sky.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Bob

 

 Thanks for sharing all that learning. I am also contemplating the silicon hoses and I have the add on carb heaters which require coolant water round their jackets. Do you have those too and if so do you need extra hose to connect those or is there enough n the kit?

 

 Richard CC

 

 

 

 On 17 Sep 2012, at 15:21, Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com> wrote:

 

> 

> 

> Hi Alan,

> 

> 1. You are welcome.  Yes, there were 8 hoses shipped, including the two hoses for the intercooler.  Some of these are cut to length for shorter hose.  The intercooler hoses must be cut to fit.  If you do not have an intercooler, you'll jus have a single hose from the turbo to the airbox.  

> 

> 2. The silicone hose is virtually permanent and should never require replacement.  The rubber are not more sturdy.  They will degrade over time and MUST be replaced on a regular basis.

> 

> 3. The coolant hose require spring clips as the coolant fixtures to which the hose attach, expand and contract with the coolant temperature.  If you use a screw clamp and tighten it fully when cold when the engine warms up, the fixture expands and forces the hose into the screw clamp.  This causes eventual cutting and failure of the hose.  If you adjust the screw clamp when the engine is warm, then the fixture shrinks when it cools, it becomes loose and leaks.  The spring clamps are constant tension clamps which account for the expansion and contraction of the fittings keeping things properly tight.

> 

> 4. Depends on what stage in the build.  I believe you are working on a completed, flying aircraft.  It will take you longer as you will have to do some disassembly to get at the hose fittings and then reassemble things after the hoses have been replaced.  I'd bet that the disassembly/reassembly takes longer than the actual hose replacement which is pretty quick, half hour to an hour maybe.  Since I'm not familiar with your aircraft and engine installation, I can only make a very wild guess as to how long the disassembly/reassembly might take.  Probably you could accomplish the total task in 1 or 2 days if you are very good with tools and have everything you need at hand.  Is there another Europaphile anywhere near you who has done this task and could assist you.  Probably make things go a lot quicker.

> 

> 5.  That was five years ago.  I do not remember.  Contact Stepahn Ingemarson, he'll give you a current quote.

> 

> For Â£605  $985, I'd check with Stephan.  If you are going to have to replace the hoses anyway, why not do it right and go silicone.

> 

> Blue skies & tailwinds,

> Bob Borger

> Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.

> Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP

> 3705 Lynchburg Dr.

> Corinth, TX  76208-5331

> Cel: 817-992-1117

> rlborger(at)mac.com

> 

> On Sep 17, 2012, at 8:19 AM, Alan Carter <alancarteresq(at)onetel.net> wrote:

> 

> 

> 

> Hello rlborger.

> 1.Thanks for photo,s, the complete set counted from your photo,s seem to be eight hoses in total.

> 2.I notice that the hoses are thinner than the rubber ones , do you know of the advantages of Silicone do they last longer?,

> In your photo,s the rubber ones look more sturdy in appearance .

> 3. The hose clips, see you use the spring type and not the screw up type.

> is there a reason for this.

> 4. How long in time does a complete hose change take on average.

> 5.What did the silicone hoses cost approx.

> I checked the price of the Rotax 5 year rubber change kit, yesterday and was told Ã‚Â£605  $985

> 

> 

> Alan

> 

> 

> 

>

Alan Carter

Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 378
Location: Kent, England.

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:55 pm Post subject: Re: Silicone Hoses for the Rotax 912 / 914

Hi. rlborger(at)mac.com and All.

Yes my aircraft is flying, i am planning a complete hose change this winter.

Skydrive quoted me Â£610 for the rubber type, but i have e-mailed Stefan for a price list of the Silicone hoses, i will get the clips you suggested,

At the moment on Evens none water coolant, so plan to continue using this coolant, its expensive at Â£68 for 5 litres.

I am in a nice big hanger, but due to cost i am moving to a farm metal framed (^^) shaped hanger, covered, but open at one end, so it will get down to say - 10 on the coldest nights.



Alan

churchy

Joined: 04 Nov 2011
Posts: 48

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:38 am Post subject: Silicone Hoses for the Rotax 912 / 914

Marcel, Bob, others



Thanks for all your comments.  One last request (on this subject) -

can anyone tell me the length of their coolant hose on an XS 912S

installation from the coolant system cap to the plastic coolant

overflow bottle as I need to order sufficient silicon hose from Stefan

in addition to the kit?  Or is the bottle location an individual

choice on each firewall forward layout?



Richard

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